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zzzFrostVortexzzz

ST 0.10.0, changes to new skill system

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So have there been skill changes to allow the supercruisers to reduce fire burn times like the BBs do,  because i cant see that anywhere ?

Or are the supercruiser fire burn times going to be reduced to normal cruiser burn times instead? What... no...really ?

There doesnt look to be many significant changes at all to what was originally proposed changes considering the amount of concerns on heavy cruisers or the lack of AFT etc to super light cruisers.
Just a pile of tweaks that are not really helping anything.

The FAQ avoids the issues raised and tries to sell other skills instead to deflect from the problem, nice try ! - [edited] !
So a cruiser can not reduce its fires now with its smaller health pool?  Get a grip WG !  You are taking entire classes out of the game with these changes.

I am hoping the link is to the wrong file/spreadsheet and some of the original issues are actually going to be addressed and/or fixed by changes to the actual ship parameters instead.

Definately not holding my breath there, but will be holding my wallet closed if this goes ahead as proposed.
 

Edited by WildWitch
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Worried about the changes to skills that are affecting super cruisers survivability.... unless they get cruiser burn times theyre going to be hit hard by this.

 

Similarly the answer about low caliber gunned cruisers is orrying Atlanta/Flint are already pretty bade after the IFHE changes... losing range and reload from BFT/AFT isnt going to help things.

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34 minutes ago, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Commanders!
We would like to thank you for your feedback that allowed us to improve the new commander skill system! Today would like to update you on the changes we've made since the initial announcement.

Read more: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/104 

And the two biggest concerns were NOT addressed and the commander skill system was NOT improved.
'Thank you for your feedback - which we ignored'  you should have said.

 

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I am overjoyed to see the nerf to supercruiser survivability, good work devs. About time these overweight cruisers burned some calories.

However, the RN light cruisers seem to have been forgotten, there are 2 cruiser straight  dmg boost skills, Demoman (HE and SAP), and AP Cruiser (AP of 190mm+), but neither will help such as 152mm AP (only) Edinburgh, who will be powercreeped, forgotten by this new skill tech tree.

Devs, please remember, UK tech tree CLs don't have access to HE or SAP shells, while their AP is too small a calibre to benefit from the main AP dmg boosting skill.

Edited by hateboat
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1 hour ago, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Commanders!
We would like to thank you for your feedback that allowed us to improve the new commander skill system! Today would like to update you on the changes we've made since the initial announcement.

Read more: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/104 

The FAQ section is going off the page on my phone screen... can't read the questions because half of each question is cut off at the right edge of the screen. Won't let me zoom in/out to see the cut off part either.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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2 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

The FAQ section is going off the page on my phone screen... can't read the questions because half of each question is cut off at the right edge of the screen. Won't let me zoom in/out to see the cut off part either.

If the rework that must not be named is taken as precedent for this also major rework; it will get screwed up, and again, they’ll be so shocked by the negative reaction, they’ll have no idea what to do.

Here and on Reddit, I’ve not seen much positive reaction so far; many haven’t been impressed with the faq answers. You may not be missing much Khaos.

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Was expecting something more substantial when I saw the topic, instead only disappointment. Let alone that all 19 point Commanders  now lose their value, only excuses for supercruisers and DD caliber CLs instead of some actual changes and tweaking.

 

A pile of feces with a new coat of paint is still a pile of feces.

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With the release of update 0.10.0, for the duration of the update, you will be able to reset commander skills for free, and the retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%/

At this stage of the game, I would think it obvious the retraining costs would be ZERO - NOTHING. FREE. FREE. FREE. How on Earth will it hurt your economy if you give 45 to 60 days for folks to retrain??

Look, it's like this. IF I am reading your English correctly, understanding it correctly, continually resetting the skills will be free. Good. Moving commanders around will still cost DOUBLOONS but hey, it's a fifty percent discount. Which does not use any earned, in-game "credits" but rather in-game currency which may be purchased with real-life money. 

What's wrong with you folks? 

 

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Will my 19 skill point commander become a 21 skill point commander with the release of the system?
No, after the update the number of skill points of your 19-skill point commanders won't be changed.

Well, color me surprised. Totally expected. If the real answer had been yes, think how much good will and attaboys you would have gained from your players. 

It would have offset a whole lot of negative press you are getting and will probably continue to get for a while. But hey, you've weathered worse, right?

Can anyone point me to a table with the new levels of experience required so my commanders too may become Twenty First Century Schizoid Commanders? 

 

Edited by Herr_Reitz
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1 hour ago, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Commanders!
We would like to thank you for your feedback that allowed us to improve the new commander skill system! Today would like to update you on the changes we've made since the initial announcement.

I'm sorry did I travel to either April 1st 2020 or 2021?

'As commander retraining now costs half the amount of XP, the ability to accelerate retraining time using credits was removed.' - Do you or the Dev team have ANY idea how bad it can be, moving higher point captains as you go through the tiers as it is? As is your changes would mean a 15 point captain just goes to the already at times painful 50-75000 XP to retrain a commander between 15 and 17 points. That's a pain even with some/all skills at only 50% usefulness - given your average "I don't have a butt load of camo's and signals to jack my XP up" player is going to take probably oh, 25-30 matches to rack that up with a 2k a match average - cause hey, not everyone has 15x 19 point captains on ships they play all the time so they have millions or billions of elite captain XP to toss around. Due to my more spread out play and not spending hours on end I know I have maybe 4 that get used occasionally. 25+ matches with no skills is an issue in  high tiers where they matter way more. And now that your upping it to 21 it's gonna be that much worse. Keep the damn retraining and the 50% for those of us without limitless dubloons, signals, and camo's. 

Focused - will either make them terminators that make CV play pointless while the enemy can deploy fighters, make them useless, or given your track record, both like they are now - useless most of the time, but when they work, an issue. 

Stealthy - 50% return time for 15% off a detection range already so terrible BB's can outspot CV's at times, when the current skill would be 10% without an insane penalty that causes issues in the 5 minute stomp matches. To say nothing 20% reduction of DCP in a CV is nothing when you consider 90% of the time that a CV will need DCP - is a scenario that it's dead anyway and DCP will make no difference. 

Interceptor - fighter consumable with no counter at all for the CV, I shouldn't even have to point out how absolutely stupid this is. 

Pyrotechnist - Do you people really think that making it a 1 point skill at 1% will help the current issues around fires? Cause it won't. The problem all comes down to % HP burned and CD on things like DCP and repair party - combined with pen/RoF when you start getting in to certain tiers vs others and IFHE. 

ERS - DCP needs lower CD's, not longer

Gunner - if I'm doing the math right, your nerfing the rotation speed from what the skill currently does, which given that even with the current skill some of these ships like Oklahoma have insufferable turret rotation, is the last thing they need.

Threshing - cause IFHE needs a new name and to be tier 2 on BB's?

ConEx - 10-12.5% more radar time, yes, that's what ships with radar times around 40 seconds absolutely need, especially when they can hide behind rocks. Though far less useful on the BB's. 

Vig with TLS - TLS as it is, sets the damn spotting range of all torps to 1.8 km, which is already malarkey given that USN torpedoes that are slow have the same, if not worse I forget which, spotting time as the useless Shimakaze stock torps. So now were talking 25-35% more on top of that? My Yugumo torps if someone has the special version of Vig at 67 knots are spotted for 13.5 seconds. Imagine how long that is for see slugs like USN's 55 knot ones. And even Yugumo was having issues like most IJN ships before TLS with 1.7 spotting range. If this is cause you added a line with insane torp speeds here's a concept NERF THE DAMN TORPEDO SPEEDS ON THAT LINE

AP BB - Battleships do not need more AP damage, if anything, as someone who spends a bit over 1/4 f their time in them - they need a nerf. To say nothing of the issues of increasing burn time on them making the skill absolutely useless to take for 5% more damage. 

Adrenaline Rush AA boost - no, no, absolutely not. Before you people even want to THINK on an idea like this, you need to actually balance AA first. This is beyond absurd

ERE and AAGT - At best, they should flip spots, worst they flip spots and you scrap adding 25% to sector reinforcement DPS and a flak burst for something else because you'd have to be mental to think 25% more DPS from priority is a good idea and the number of flak bursts as is should be a fixed number based on the number of DP/long range AA mounts which should be every gun 75 mm and higher which in most cases, means ships would get a buff to number of flak bursts other than maybe the extreme cases where the number needs to be more guns/2 or 3 but lower time between bursts. 

Demoman - what part of the IFHE/Fire problem does your dev team have comprehending? The part where the % HP burned of BB's is still set at the levels of Alpha testing when basically that shattered 90% of incoming shells unless broadside or at range so the superstructure could be hit r were called Des Moines and that an average of about 14% when RP is 14% unless with flags does not work out on an 80 second cooldown with fires/repairs being 1-1 which is already an issue when you have 2-3 fires that end up burning fully. Or the part that on top of that, with IFHE added, you have ships straight up ignoring battleship armour with high rates of fire, of which as is only 50% of the pen damage can be fired, that when combined with the fires set can lead to a cruiser meant to be countered by battleships destroying that BB in 90-120 seconds - meaning they have to not be a moron for only 2 minutes to evaporate the BB's HP and not eat citadel hits? Let alone the ones behind an island that can't take return fire anyway. And you want to give them 10% more damage. Do you need me to try and figure out recording games I play with the current IFHE setup in Cleveland and the like to get it through the dev teams head, cause I will.

 

Screwing with AA stuff that needs to not be screwed with till you people actually knuckle down and damn well fix it as is, complete lack of understanding of effects on CV play of CV changes let alone the non-CV ones, complete lack of understanding on why IFHE and fires are an issue, more unneeded torpedo nerfs for DD's. Your all focused on this over bloated, unnecessary skill change. Yeah, I said it, it's unneeded, y'know why - because if you had IFHE and fires balanced right, BB's might actually use something besides survivability builds, if AA was balanced right, you might have people focus less on desperate attempts to boost it to deal with CV's or building troll AA that can make a CV near useless against it, you go on down the list, most of the stale skill issues boil down at their core to unresolved issues in game balance that they help counteract or exacerbate. If you people would actually listen to the problems when put out in longer, thought out, and even using math and evidence responses by the minority of players with even a bit of understanding how things work, instead of 5000 people crying in 1 word sentences who have no damn idea what they are talking about as to the actual problem they are experiencing - such as low tier CV's the issue being not the CV's but the insane lack of AA, or stop putting all your faith in a spreadsheet that yes, can in fact be wrong and lie to you when 2 extreme number sets give an appearance of balance, you'd maybe only need to change 5 skills that are almost never used and would likely still see little to no use, and if you wanted, could make it that yeah, we can train 1 captain for multiple types with non-generic builds. 

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First thoughts:

1) At least we know now for sure whether or not the 19 pointers would be auto-promoted to 21 (answer - NO). 

2) We still don't know how many CXP it will take to get a commander to 21 points (answer - probably a hell of a lot; reading between the lines, it doesn't look like they're scaling it to the current 1.7 million).

3) Everyone with existing 19 pointers wanted to know what was going to happen to their ability to generate ECXP. 

Answer - THIS:

image.thumb.png.5354e1e31fa020535da6dcafa74a25bf.png

Now EVERY captain farms ECXP.

This is a game changer.

Remember that line on the bottom of the economic screen, "Converted to Elite Commander XP"? Hitherto, that has always been either zero (for non-19 pointers) or equal to the number of ECXP (for established 19 pointers), with the rare exceptions being when a newly promoted one just got across the line. Now that category is going to be used ALL the time.

I had been wondering just last night whether perhaps 19 pointers and up would get some sort of reduced conversion rate to make up for them not being Highest Rank any more. I would prefer the conversion rate to have been scaled to the number of points the captain has, but this will do for now.

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Reworking the Captain's Skills has been a solution in search of a problem, in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

At this stage of the game, I would think it obvious the retraining costs would be ZERO - NOTHING. FREE. FREE. FREE. How on Earth will it hurt your economy if you give 45 to 60 days for folks to retrain??

Look, it's like this. IF I am reading your English correctly, understanding it correctly, continually resetting the skills will be free. Good. Moving commanders around will still cost DOUBLOONS but hey, it's a fifty percent discount. Which does not use any earned, in-game "credits" but rather in-game currency which may be purchased with real-life money. 

What's wrong with you folks? 

 

Retraining costs are never going to go away. Why would you think they would?

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2 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

Retraining costs are never going to go away. Why would you think they would?

Quote

We are planning to update the skill system in update 0.10.0

What has changed?

Economics

  • The cost of retraining for doubloons was reduced from 750 to 500 doubloons.
  • As commander retraining now costs half the amount of XP, the ability to accelerate retraining time using credits was removed.
  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

When moving a Commander from one tech-tree ship to another in current usage, a player has the option to spend 200,000 credits to cut the training XP cost in half. 
On higher skill point Captains, this is worthwhile, and often combined with an expenditure of CXP + FXP to finish the re-training and have a fully trained Commander with no penalties to their skills.

With the *proposed* skill re-work, this option is gone.  
The other options are spending CXP + FXP in even greater amounts (double or more than previous/current system, especially with 19+ point Commanders), or to spend doubloons.

So, yeah, another pain-in-the-:etc_swear: that I, as a player, did not ask for.

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So  WOWS is taking all my ECXP making 19 pt commanders away, wth! what a rip off! 

I've got 34 19pt commanders that took years to grind, and in a bid to drain the player base of XP , WOWS has come up with a skill reset ...Bullsh@@ !

I won't quit the game but, i will play differently, im done grinding,and besides how many new lines can WOWS come up with that will actually be relevant and interesting are left ? Italian BBs & DDs, Commonwealth Cruisers and DDs ? 

Edited by commando_brian

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5 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Reworking the Captain's Skills has been a solution in search of a problem, in my opinion.

I’m pretty sure the “problem” WG sees is the proliferation of ECXP/19 point captains, hence the increase in the skill point cap from 19 to 21. The 5% ECXP earned on all 0-20 pt captains is likely to be a pittance compared to the additional amounts needed to get to 21 pts and allow significant accrual of ECXP (we don’t have the details, yet, of course, so I may be wrong). The whole skill rework is just a ham-fisted attempt to facilitate this change without giving all ships a flat buff of two extra captain points. IMO, the fundamental change from one set of skills to one set of skills per class is going to cause more balance issues than it solves. Cruisers, being the most diverse class in the game, are going to be affected the most, particularly the the ones at the extreme ends of the light-to-heavy range. These ships will no longer be able to invest in skills more typically suited for DDs and BBs.

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My initial reading of this seems to indicate the following in terms of "Winners and Losers":

1) The decrease in the accuracy of the manual secondary skills is directed at improving the survivability of DDs. The 35% improvement, decrease in the IFHE skill point requirement, ability to fire at multiple targets, and various other improvements in firing rate and possibly (?) range will contribute to possibly improved damage to other BBs and cruisers, but this decreased accuracy will impede the ability target DDs;

2) Nerf Super Cruisers as they are, in general, over-performing, versus, standard cruisers. The inability to protect against prolonged fire damage and improve their secondaries will impact this specific subclass of ships. The biggest nerf will come to the Seigfried that is also at the top of the performance sheets (oh, and is, of course, also a KM ship....)

3) The nerf to fast firing CLs I think is also a buff to DD survival, as this approach may not just hamper their distance, but try to induce people to not play them at all and again help with both standard cruisers and DDs.

4) The obvious winners included DDs and CAs....

More to perhaps come as I get a chance for a more detailed reading....

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I'm sure those german battleship secondaries needed further nerfing, i heard their accuracy was just too high

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  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

What??

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You need to buff other ships, like the Atlanta and the B variant of it. They relied on skills to increase their range just to be playable against the ships they see.

 

Like..the biggest concerns where promptly ignored. Good job.

 

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