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Shenanigans_Abound

I think people forgot about this ability

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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Every day I get on the forums there is always a post about cvs, every day. Why? Why are people still complaining about them? It comes down to two simple answers. You’re either used to getting your way when you whine and cry or you’ve forgotten about this really cool feature on the client that allows you to deleted the game. Who knew right? It’s been almost a year since the re work at this point and I still see people posting constantly like it happened yesterday. Why? Why cry about it when you know they’ve already come out and said “they consider it finished” so what, crying to them is gonna make them stand up and say “oh Joe Schmo over here isn’t happy, we should remove that” sorry kiddos, doesn’t work like that in the real adult world. I love the post even more that say things along the lines of “everyone knows” “everyone hates” no, just you and a handful of people. I see far more praises than complaints, so please, just stop with the “everyone hates cv posts” because some of us have learned to how to play the game since this happened. Sorry that you haven’t figured out that after a year, charging into a cap without smoke and your aa on is just telling the cv “hey man, I’m over here, kill me” if you haven’t figured that out but still cry constantly about it happening, this probably isn’t the game for you anymore. As for the rest of us, we’ve learned to adapt and we’ve learned to adjust our style of play to stop the CV from coming for me constantly. 
 

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

Thank you, for saying so.

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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Every day I get on the forums there is always a post about cvs, every day. Why? Why are people still complaining about them? It comes down to two simple answers. You’re either used to getting your way when you whine and cry or you’ve forgotten about this really cool feature on the client that allows you to deleted the game. Who knew right? It’s been almost a year since the re work at this point and I still see people posting constantly like it happened yesterday. Why? Why cry about it when you know they’ve already come out and said “they consider it finished” so what, crying to them is gonna make them stand up and say “oh Joe Schmo over here isn’t happy, we should remove that” sorry kiddos, doesn’t work like that in the real adult world. I love the post even more that say things along the lines of “everyone knows” “everyone hates” no, just you and a handful of people. I see far more praises than complaints, so please, just stop with the “everyone hates cv posts” because some of us have learned to how to play the game since this happened. Sorry that you haven’t figured out that after a year, charging into a cap without smoke and your aa on is just telling the cv “hey man, I’m over here, kill me” if you haven’t figured that out but still cry constantly about it happening, this probably isn’t the game for you anymore. As for the rest of us, we’ve learned to adapt and we’ve learned to adjust our style of play to stop the CV from coming for me constantly. 
 

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

Very well thought out post . It's WeeGees game(playground) we are guests who can leave anytime we like...Not all of us dislike the rework  . 

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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Every day I get on the forums there is always a post about cvs, every day. Why? Why are people still complaining about them? It comes down to two simple answers. You’re either used to getting your way when you whine and cry or you’ve forgotten about this really cool feature on the client that allows you to deleted the game. Who knew right? It’s been almost a year since the re work at this point and I still see people posting constantly like it happened yesterday. Why? Why cry about it when you know they’ve already come out and said “they consider it finished” so what, crying to them is gonna make them stand up and say “oh Joe Schmo over here isn’t happy, we should remove that” sorry kiddos, doesn’t work like that in the real adult world. I love the post even more that say things along the lines of “everyone knows” “everyone hates” no, just you and a handful of people. I see far more praises than complaints, so please, just stop with the “everyone hates cv posts” because some of us have learned to how to play the game since this happened. Sorry that you haven’t figured out that after a year, charging into a cap without smoke and your aa on is just telling the cv “hey man, I’m over here, kill me” if you haven’t figured that out but still cry constantly about it happening, this probably isn’t the game for you anymore. As for the rest of us, we’ve learned to adapt and we’ve learned to adjust our style of play to stop the CV from coming for me constantly. 
 

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

Are you a pushover? We are not asking for the CV's to go away.

We do want counter play based on skill.

Until then some of us will be posting about CVs and how one sided they are.

I do  believe we are getting some traction.

To take your own advice, you don't have to read our posts  but that would be too easy.

Happy thanksgiving folks!

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The CV and attack stuff is not the problem.


What has changed is this. BOT CV in Coop is a minor annoyance. Just apply airdefense until erased.

HUMAN CV's on the other hand... latch on to any and all DD's pernamently bombing, rocketing and torping until that DD or all DD's are ERASED in the first two minutes of game Preferably BEFORE they reach any objective. If the Human CV driver is really predatory they will fly along both sides of the map walls at the edges looking for me trying to get to them. Then hover over me bombing me into oblivion while 6 Red warships fire rounds all over me.

Some days there is no point even in driving a DD against any human CV in Random, ranked or Clan Battles in particular.

What do I do then? Well I pick the best air defense ship in my team and drive to just behind and one side of it. Then huddle there until those planes are melted. There is no spotting, no objectives taken and no forward attack or intercept possible for at least 5 minutes. Eventually most of the planes are melted and my team BB's have found the enemy CV and started shooting on it while being spotted by my Team CV. If he is any good. Then I'll go forward and do my DD thing.

 

Red team knows this and moves forward very predatory and aggressive. Game is lost in 3 minutes already. There is no point in continuing. I would stop the DD and sit there waiting for shells to finish me off at 200 health or whatever.

 

Otherwise it will just have to wait until the planes are erased. Or I am erased. Or TK'ed by AA ship for being stupid in gameplay hiding very close to them.

 

In games without CV I joyfully go forth and do my DD stuff. Its FUN FUN FUN.

Edited by xHeavy
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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

I also remember CVs being able to defend their allies with actual fighter support up instead of a mindless consumable. Remember as well how purpose built AA cruisers were actually capable of fulfilling the duties they were designed for? Or how CVs could use their consumables, could catch fire for some time and would actually detonate?

See? By choosing whichever truth I want to proclaim I am also in the right.

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When we had RTS in CV years ago, all I did was select fighters. Dozens and dozens of fighters. Send them up and hover over friendly warships begging for air defense.


Eventually enemy CV is defanged. He has no planes left.

Then comes out my Torp and bombers straight for his CV who is now helpless. My Team focuses on the objective map wide in glorious assurance that there be angels over them.

Soon after Wows destroyed the RTS model and changed to the model that CV players use today. I tried it for exactly one map. I found i could not do it. sold all of my CVs then. That was the end of that. Too bad too.

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It's another change to surmount in my eyes. I do get frustrated by it occasionally, but it isn't really that frequent that a CV decides to focus on only me for the round until I die. What's that Navy Seal saying people are always throwing around? " Adapt, Overcome..." something like that. 

Good players in any game learn to figure out the way to play with new mechanics. So many games out there in the competative scene are balanced constantly, continual buffs and nerfs to classes/ships/guns/characters. Many times the changes are not because of the input of the average players, but because the Unicums discover new ways in the given system to maximize their potential. Lots of competative games are balanced on the ranked and professional scene, Overwatch being a good example.

They changed the way CV's worked because the skill gap was tremendous and a Unicum CV captain could wipe an enemy carrier in the opening 2 minutes, then proceed to obliterate an entire team of players practically solo. CV's used to do WAY more alpha damage than they do now. Each torpedo in a spread did 12,000+ dmg, each squad had 5 to 7 planes and the Hakyu had 3 torpedo squadrons I believe. Every 2 minutes one of your battleships exploded instantly to unavoidable manual multi-cross drops within 2km's of the ship. If they didn't instantly die they flooded, which did way, WAY more damage over time than it does now.

The nice thing about pre-rework CV's was the scarcity of the class. You rarely saw them in battle. Certain ships specced for AA could become no fly zones such as Cleveland and Texas. 

The change, while admittedly not perfect, has largely eliminated the threat of sudden unavoidable deletion by CV and made it much easier for an average CV player to have a bit more of an impact on the game.

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The problem is that Wargaming DOES listen...  And often enough, they listen to the wrong folks.

So some Ivory Tower nerf comes out that leaves everyone beating their heads into the wall.  Waaaa  Waaaa!!!  AP bombs are too bad...   Z-A-P--  Now CVs are worse than worthless.
So enjoy your day playing CVs...   Just don't become too reliant on getting any real damage numbers up.  Stack on the flood and fire flags.

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Speaking from my earlier playing days... I wanted to CV's to go away... until I learned to address them properly... if I'm a DD and there are two enemy CV's... maybe I don't rush to capture with AA turned off and wonder why 2 BBs and 3 CAs deleted me 35 seconds into the battle.  Maybe I hang back and support ships with significant AA and watch a red DD get lit up when he rushes the cap.  I mean it is a simulation right?  I'm sure the Japanese wished we didn't have carriers, but they were there to deal with.  I think CVs piss you off if your Random team doesn't form up and the enemy CV decides you are the opportune target.  I personally love the free plane buffet when I run my American cruisers.... please feed me that AA damage.  If you just don't like sailing against them... sail into the middle of the map and go out like G real fast and get to the next battle... maybe you'll snag a match without em.  But if you hang back in death ball you may enjoy the experience a little more... the team doesn't need your spotting if your carrier is doing the job right.  

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4 minutes ago, ericrubel said:

death ball

That's the thing about tactical CV counterplay it's really dumb.  The ideal counter CV strategy is to full on lemming train to central spawn.  Sit there for about 15 minutes until the CVs are down to their last plane reserves.  And then you brawl over the center cap and whoever gets the most kills wins the game.

Now that's the ideal so you probably don't need to go full "ideal".  But that's sort of what the game is "teaching" the player base as the "ideal".   And that's why you see groups of ships just kind of milling around behind the caps more and more often.  They are being strategical.

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18 minutes ago, Learux said:

No offense ericrubel,  you don't have enough battles to have a say in this matter.

you're 100% correct... all that came from my more experienced clan members... and no offense taken.  I was hoping to improve the experience of other noobs that may stumble across the thread.  The advice helped me enjoy the game more and survive longer.

and to clarify... not offering CV strategy for people who know how to play... just some ideas for people who don't want to deal with them.. because as you said... not qualified to offer expert methods to seasoned players.

Edited by ericrubel
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33 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

It was much better. If I wanted to make the CV go away, I could spec AA, which actually worked. And most games had no CVs, and double CV crapfests were almost non-existent.

I hated, and still hate, the rework for my own reasons; very likely not the same as many others.

But as far as the quoted part of Tai’s post, I agree completely.

WG took settled, known mechanics, and blew everything to hell and gone.

What I laugh about now, for the most part; is that the toxicity and hate is still going strong nearly two years on.

That alone makes every other controversy over the last five years pale in comparison.

Pretty much everything else died off after a few months, basically clumsy kindergarten playground brawls, compared to a Tyson or Holyfield fight.

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11 minutes ago, ericrubel said:

you're 100% correct... all that came from my more experienced clan members... and no offense taken.  I was hoping to improve the experience of other noobs that may stumble across the thread.  The advice helped me enjoy the game more and survive longer.

and to clarify... not offering CV strategy for people who know how to play... just some ideas for people who don't want to deal with them.. because as you said... not qualified to offer expert methods to seasoned players.

You are absolutely right that the tactical death ball is the goto strategy to "encourage" the red CV to find a lone wolf to pick on.     

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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Every day I get on the forums there is always a post about cvs, every day. Why? Why are people still complaining about them? It comes down to two simple answers. You’re either used to getting your way when you whine and cry or you’ve forgotten about this really cool feature on the client that allows you to deleted the game. Who knew right? It’s been almost a year since the re work at this point and I still see people posting constantly like it happened yesterday. Why? Why cry about it when you know they’ve already come out and said “they consider it finished” so what, crying to them is gonna make them stand up and say “oh Joe Schmo over here isn’t happy, we should remove that” sorry kiddos, doesn’t work like that in the real adult world. I love the post even more that say things along the lines of “everyone knows” “everyone hates” no, just you and a handful of people. I see far more praises than complaints, so please, just stop with the “everyone hates cv posts” because some of us have learned to how to play the game since this happened. Sorry that you haven’t figured out that after a year, charging into a cap without smoke and your aa on is just telling the cv “hey man, I’m over here, kill me” if you haven’t figured that out but still cry constantly about it happening, this probably isn’t the game for you anymore. As for the rest of us, we’ve learned to adapt and we’ve learned to adjust our style of play to stop the CV from coming for me constantly. 
 

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

Actually, the playerbase complaints do have some effect, and carry the day on occasion. Remember Alabama? Remember GC moving a tier- NOT? Remember WG telling us earlier this year that they wouldnt be nerfing carriers because they wanted even more carrier population? That was followed by a series of CV nerfs. 

We dont get listened to a lot or all of the time, but we are heard.  

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Why not make the game better and have an option without CVs?

Is anyone suprised that the best ranked seasons happens to be the ones with odd tiers?

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5 minutes ago, WarStore said:

Why not make the game better and have an option without CVs?

Is anyone suprised that the best ranked seasons happens to be the ones with odd tiers?

Nor surprised that the invitational tournament played for cash prizes does not have CVs. 

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1 hour ago, RonJamesDio said:

It's another change to surmount in my eyes. I do get frustrated by it occasionally, but it isn't really that frequent that a CV decides to focus on only me for the round until I die. What's that Navy Seal saying people are always throwing around? " Adapt, Overcome..." something like that. 

Good players in any game learn to figure out the way to play with new mechanics. So many games out there in the competative scene are balanced constantly, continual buffs and nerfs to classes/ships/guns/characters. Many times the changes are not because of the input of the average players, but because the Unicums discover new ways in the given system to maximize their potential. Lots of competative games are balanced on the ranked and professional scene,

And yet, despite your comments about good players, it's the game's best players who detest CVs the most.

This is because when you adapt to crap, its still crap.

 

1 hour ago, RonJamesDio said:

.They changed the way CV's worked because the skill gap was tremendous and a .

No, they brought in more CVS because they were not getting enough arbitrary damage out of them using the RTS system. The purpose of aircraft carriers is to shorten matches by damaging ships to get players back in the queue as quickly as possible.

The skill Gap is something the players care about but WG could care less. If there is a large skill Gap, the game is a steam roll and ends more quickly and players are back in the queue more quickly.

The developers do not want quality games. they want matches that are over as soon as possible

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15 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Every day I get on the forums there is always a post about cvs, every day. Why? Why are people still complaining about them? It comes down to two simple answers. You’re either used to getting your way when you whine and cry or you’ve forgotten about this really cool feature on the client that allows you to deleted the game. Who knew right? It’s been almost a year since the re work at this point and I still see people posting constantly like it happened yesterday. Why? Why cry about it when you know they’ve already come out and said “they consider it finished” so what, crying to them is gonna make them stand up and say “oh Joe Schmo over here isn’t happy, we should remove that” sorry kiddos, doesn’t work like that in the real adult world. I love the post even more that say things along the lines of “everyone knows” “everyone hates” no, just you and a handful of people. I see far more praises than complaints, so please, just stop with the “everyone hates cv posts” because some of us have learned to how to play the game since this happened. Sorry that you haven’t figured out that after a year, charging into a cap without smoke and your aa on is just telling the cv “hey man, I’m over here, kill me” if you haven’t figured that out but still cry constantly about it happening, this probably isn’t the game for you anymore. As for the rest of us, we’ve learned to adapt and we’ve learned to adjust our style of play to stop the CV from coming for me constantly. 
 

see maybe some of you have forgotten, or maybe are just too new to know that CV, used to be vicious. In a single a drop you could watch your dd go “POOF”, in a single drop you can watch your full HP yammy drop below 20 percent. How is that system better than what we have now? Because only a few people could play it that way? Personally, I’d rather have 1000 players who don’t fully understand how to play cv over the players that could play it pre re work because those games, sucked. Games were decided solely on who the better CV player was. If you weren’t around for those days, you have no reason to complain because I promise, it used to be worse. Don’t believe me, just go to YouTube and see arch CV videos from pre re work and tell me how that system is better... it isn’t, that cv relied heavily on a very skilled player vs what we have no where anyone can hop into a cv and make it work (kinda) 

 

Apparently you haven't had a BVR one shot your cruiser in clan battles, nor have delete your dd in one pass.....

RTS had you make top down strategic moves  up to 7 flights all at once....now you can use 1 flight to spot  a target until its dead,  or insta cycle flights until dot kills the target....

.....

The problem isn't the CV, it's magnifying the always been there skill gap...

A good cv owns a match, a bad one is worse than not having a cv like the old days.....

LONG LIVE THE FIGHTER BOGUE 

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I agree OP. All these people crying about cvs conveniently forget the roving packs of dds that dominated this game for years. Or maybe they're purposely obtuse because they are the dd drivers and now refuse to change tactics to adapt? 

 

Anyways CVs are fine. I deal with them like I do with any new meta and change my tactics. Sure it sucks at times but at least its a change from the last 5 years of DDs ruling the matches.

 

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as unbalanced as RTS CVs were, mainly in the matter of the team that had the better CV player usually had the better chance of winning as CVs vs AA was pretty good then, at least they were offset by how rare they were

Edited by tcbaker777

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3 hours ago, Concept6 said:

I agree OP. All these people crying about cvs conveniently forget the roving packs of dds that dominated this game for years. Or maybe they're purposely obtuse because they are the dd drivers and now refuse to change tactics to adapt? 

 

Or maybe they understand that when you adapt to crap, it's still crap.

The idea that roving packs of vehicles with the lowest survival rates and lowest damage dominated this game for years is rank nonsense.

Oh yeah if all these people are being obtuse, how come aircraft carriers are banned from KOTs and deplored by so many of the game's best players?

 

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6 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 

The skill Gap is something the players care about but WG could care less. If there is a large skill Gap, the game is a steam roll and ends more quickly and players are back in the queue more quickly.

WG does care about skill gap. When a Unicum manual strafed a noobs squadrons furing lower tier matches and wiped whole hangers worth of aircraft for no losses in return, it turned a great many players away from the class. We had multiple people in our clan alone give up CV's within the first 30 games because a beginner facing a pro in the RTS days was like an infant playing Christiano Renaldo in soccer. 

There was a fundamental lack of knowledge of important aspects of the class many people never got the chance to learn because of near constant thrashings from skilled players. How many times would you need your RTS CV to be killed within the first 2 minutes of a match before you got the chance to launch your first attack before you got frustrated. 

This is one of the reasons that WG removed Strafing and Manual drops from carriers below tier 6. If they didn't care about the skill gap, why bother taking those aspects of the class out ONLY for low tier games? Why remove the two most important advanced CV tactics for low tiers ONLY if they didnt care at all? It makes no sense. So that new players wouldn't be ridiculed mercilessly by seal clubbers. 

Personally I find it hard to believe that there isn't a single unicum player who is okay with CV's being in game. I havent personally gone searching, but people's true opinions are often hard to discern, especially given such vehement antagonism towards anyone perceived as being such. 

Edited by RonJamesDio

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