Can we have decent event ships?

[barbaroja_Ar]

Just finished the US BBs event.

Got Oklahoma. Perfect new line fit. Feels like garbage, it makes New York feel awesome.

We used to have some decent ships in similar events before, not just an insurance ship you grind just to avoid getting them in an SC.

I'm not asking for OP ships, but ships you can actually use to enhance a captain or make some credits.

There must be a middle where WG does not lose money and we don't get really awful ships.

There were ships like PEF or Duke of York, that are decent ships.

[groomsiebelle]

Well to be fair, PEF, Graf Spee, and DOY were among the holiday ships. I believe there is a holiday ship planned for this year as well. I'm not sure if we looked at all of the event ships how many were good versus meh, and if there is any correlation to type of event to earn them (like the Kamikaze R event).

I do agree with your Oklahoma assessment, got here via the event a few days ago, 1 game played, I may never play her again except to claim the snowflake I expect to see.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

17 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Got Oklahoma. Perfect new line fit. Feels like garbage, it makes New York feel awesome.

WG's main problem is that they've done something we haven't seen before and given a Tier 5 ship seriously good secondaries with seriously good reach (more than many Tier 5 destroyers' torpedoes).

The price we paid for that is for the main armament (particularly the shell effectiveness) to be de-tuned.

I agree completely that they went way too far in that respect to avoid creating an OP monster they would later have to pull, because in the long term she's intended to be an indirectly available coal premium and they CAN'T afford to pull her. 

Supposedly, a long time ago, stock New York had the shells Oklahoma does now. I shudder to think what that must have been like. I've also read that Colorado had a 45 second reload at first, but I don't have a source for that.  @LittleWhiteMouse, can you confirm?

Kamikaze, Kami R and Fujin were actually trash compared to the Minekaze AS SHE WAS WHEN THEY WERE RELEASED. But because the Kami triplets are premiums, they remained immune from the nerfs which, in the long run, have left them in a better place than their parent.

[barbaroja_Ar]

7 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

Well to be fair, PEF, Graf Spee, and DOY were among the holiday ships. I believe there is a holiday ship planned for this year as well. I'm not sure if we looked at all of the event ships how many were good versus meh, and if there is any correlation to type of event to earn them (like the Kamikaze R event).

I do agree with your Oklahoma assessment, got here via the event a few days ago, 1 game played, I may never play her again except to claim the snowflake I expect to see.

I didn't recall them as holiday ships. May be I'm wrong and all new class associated ships are the same.

[AdmiralThunder]

19 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Just finished the US BBs event.

Got Oklahoma. Perfect new line fit. Feels like garbage, it makes New York feel awesome.

We used to have some decent ships in similar events before, not just an insurance ship you grind just to avoid getting them in an SC.

I'm not asking for OP ships, but ships you can actually use to enhance a captain or make some credits.

There must be a middle where WG does not lose money and we don't get really awful ships.

There were ships like PEF or Duke of York, that are decent ships.

Asks for decent event ships and then uses PEF as an example. Man that is a low bar! 

[paradat]

20 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Just finished the US BBs event.

Got Oklahoma. Perfect new line fit. Feels like garbage, it makes New York feel awesome.

We used to have some decent ships in similar events before, not just an insurance ship you grind just to avoid getting them in an SC.

I'm not asking for OP ships, but ships you can actually use to enhance a captain or make some credits.

There must be a middle where WG does not lose money and we don't get really awful ships.

There were ships like PEF or Duke of York, that are decent ships.

Give the Oklahoma some time it is better than you think. Also if you can go back and look at the reaction to the PEF and Duke of York. The forums were filled with hate for both of them.

[barbaroja_Ar]

6 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Asks for decent event ships and then uses PEF as an example. Man that is a low bar! 

I know they are not excellent ships, but you can make the. work as trainers. I did not feel the same about Oklahoma.

I think that was the point, I don't want OP nor nothing like that, but a workable ship you can count as a trainer or average credit maker.

 

Edit.

I like playing mid tiers

[groomsiebelle]

3 minutes ago, paradat said:

Give the Oklahoma some time it is better than you think. Also if you can go back and look at the reaction to the PEF and Duke of York. The forums were filled with hate for both of them.

That is my recollection as well, that initially PEF and DOY were hated. DOY seems to have risen more in perception with some time than I think PEF has, but both were indeed widely panned.

[Saxon29]

I am not complaining about getting the Oklahoma..merely played the game as I do ship dropped into port.whether people use them/don't/sell its entirely to each their own.the gimmick with okie is a secondary build,everyone knows that so know they will try and stay just out of reach making the play of the ship very blaaaa to say the least.the same thing is with the texas,build for aa because it has great aa defense and every cv/plane fly well clear of her making play very blaaaa as well.but people keep in mind you won these or atleast the okie for doing practically nothing.sooo with that being said you get nothing for nothing....

[Nevermore135]

The recent pattern is that event ships have been very lackluster: not only OK but also Genova, London, Mikoyan, etc.

The thing to keep in mind is that WG fully expects many players to obtain these ships for free (or at reduced cost), so they plan for a high population of the ships in game. Since last summer’s controversy around GC showed that the playerbase will not tolerate nerfing a premium ship, WG has been incredibly careful when designing these ships to make them thoroughly mediocre.

[barbaroja_Ar]

11 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

The recent pattern is that event ships have been very lackluster: not only OK but also Genova, London, Mikoyan, etc.

The thing to keep in mind is that WG fully expects many players to obtain these ships for free (or at reduced cost), so they plan for a high population of the ships in game. Since last summer’s controversy around GC showed that the playerbase will not tolerate nerfing a premium ship, WG has been incredibly careful when designing these ships to make them thoroughly mediocre.

Agree, but Genova, London and Mikoyan are better than Oklahoma, or I at least feel then just in the sweet spot, not OP, nor garbage.

There was a mission for Genova that was doable without much effort. Just playing a battle in Oklahoma was too much for me.

[dimzzy]

31 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

That is my recollection as well, that initially PEF and DOY were hated. DOY seems to have risen more in perception with some time than I think PEF has, but both were indeed widely panned.

PEF was and still is a hot garbage.

[SkaerKrow]

Duke of York was never a bad ship, period. KGV was considered one of the best BBs at her tier, and DoY was a re-tuned version of that vessel. The “problem” with DoY was that, in testing, she was a completely different ship. Initially put forward as a BB with no heal but with cruiser level accuracy and dispersion, some very prominent CCs adored her in that configuration and were incredibly upset when WG went with the current version at the last minute. She got roundly trashed in reviews for it, and built up an entirely unjustified reputation as being a bad ship. In truth, she’s one of the best event ships that WG has offered us, holiday or otherwise.

The problem is that WG is handing out tier V event ships now, and quite honestly they have a poor track record for balancing ships at that tier. 

[sapient007]

1 hour ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

There were ships like PEF or Duke of York, that are decent ships.

 Make both meh at best ship as a standard. WG is really successful at lower the bar.  Work as intended. 

[BrushWolf]

51 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Asks for decent event ships and then uses PEF as an example. Man that is a low bar! 

I would rather see new ships be a smidgen on the weak side which they did with the PEF instead of over powered and pulled quickly. I do think that the Oklahoma is hamstrung with its extremely slow reload combined with glacial speed even with long ranged secondaries which knowledgeable players will stay out of if possible.

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

1 hour ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Just finished the US BBs event.

Got Oklahoma. Perfect new line fit. Feels like garbage, it makes New York feel awesome.

We used to have some decent ships in similar events before, not just an insurance ship you grind just to avoid getting them in an SC.

I'm not asking for OP ships, but ships you can actually use to enhance a captain or make some credits.

There must be a middle where WG does not lose money and we don't get really awful ships.

There were ships like PEF or Duke of York, that are decent ships.

What planet do you live on? A decent free ship? Dream on...

[HazeGrayUnderway]

There are decent Event Ships, but I think people are confusing want "Decent" to be "Overpowered."

[warheart1992]

8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I would rather see new ships be a smidgen on the weak side which they did with the PEF instead of over powered and pulled quickly. I do think that the Oklahoma is hamstrung with its extremely slow reload combined with glacial speed even with long ranged secondaries which knowledgeable players will stay out of if possible.

The issue is that most of the weak ships stay port queens after their limited use in any event needing them has expired. I agree that it's better to have something a bit weaker instead of being broken OP, but this doesn't mean that freebies shouldn't be decent.

For example to me Genova, Siroco, Oklahoma, Mikoyan, PEF fall on the weak/port queen end of the spectrum. Aigle, Indianapolis, Graf Spee, Hill, Gorizia are somewhat of a middle ground, some leaning towards good/strong, others towards weak. Odin, Anchorage Exeter, Warspite (during the RN DD event you could get her for free), London, DOY and relatively decent, and then there's the broken stuff like Kamikaze clones.

Bottom line, I appreciate WG even providing people with the opportunity to get free ships, but if these ships are bad on so many levels I will just use them for whichever shortcut I can get, then let them rust.

[Patosentado]

Vampire was good, almost OP.

Oklahoma is fun as a close in brawler. Full secondaries captain. Can wipe out destroyers with secondaries alone, as a Massachusetts.

[BrushWolf]

2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

The issue is that most of the weak ships stay port queens after their limited use in any event needing them has expired. I agree that it's better to have something a bit weaker instead of being broken OP, but this doesn't mean that freebies shouldn't be decent.

For example to me Genova, Siroco, Oklahoma, Mikoyan, PEF fall on the weak/port queen end of the spectrum. Aigle, Indianapolis, Graf Spee, Hill, Gorizia are somewhat of a middle ground, some leaning towards good/strong, others towards weak. Odin, Anchorage Exeter, Warspite (during the RN DD event you could get her for free), London, DOY and relatively decent, and then there's the broken stuff like Kamikaze clones.

Bottom line, I appreciate WG even providing people with the opportunity to get free ships, but if these ships are bad on so many levels I will just use them for whichever shortcut I can get, then let them rust.

I like the PEF and play it regularly, good guns, good AA, and decent speed & handling. I think they hit the target for a little room for buffs with it. With others I think they erred too far on the "don't make it over powered" side of things. That said I would rather see them come out a bit on the side of weak than over powered. The first can be fixed while the second not so much.

[barbaroja_Ar]

10 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Bottom line, I appreciate WG even providing people with the opportunity to get free ships, but if these ships are bad on so many levels I will just use them for whichever shortcut I can get, then let them rust.

This, I would like to have less port queens

[warheart1992]

4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I like the PEF and play it regularly, good guns, good AA, and decent speed & handling. I think they hit the target for a little room for buffs with it. With others I think they erred too far on the "don't make it over powered" side of things. That said I would rather see them come out a bit on the side of weak than over powered. The first can be fixed while the second not so much.

Personally PEF has a bit of a niche spot in my Operations lineup; the secondaries are decent and the AA while weaker after so many changes is still good. Also it's one of the more beautiful BBs in my opinion. But the bad penetration, low number of barrels with not that improved a reload time kinda kills it for me.

The more recent example of an actually good reward ship without being OP is Odin, which for quite a while was reviled due to bad CC publicity. I think WG did a pretty good job in creating a well balanced but also enjoyable ship that even someone such as I that don't really play BBs can appreciate and play.

As for the point of having issues with fixing OP stuff, I can't help but wonder how things might have been if there wasn't such a huge backlash with Giulio Cesare.

[Doombeagle]

1 hour ago, dimzzy said:

PEF was and still is a hot garbage.

IDK, it seems to do ok in ops

[K1ra_Yoshikage]

First event ship for everyone was the "Marblehead". And was already a bad ship, since the Murmansk was the pimped version with stalinium shells.

Then came the ARP ships, less valueable then today, since they weren't premiums and you could not add another camo.

Things went a bit out of control with the Kamikaze since

a) was a real grind, at least at that time

b) at first they said that the number of ships that they will hand out, will be limited

c) she is complete OP and only countered by the amount of CV you find now at T4/6

The last one caused a real uproar in the forum, they changed it to everyone who finished the missions.

The first Christmas (or anniversary?) boat was the Emden. Was given out for free with a code AFAIK

The Graf Spee was given out the next year over a campaign. Opinions about her are mixed.

The DoY wasn't a bad ship at the time, the KGV did well at her tier. But she has nothing that made her a real different ship. 

The PEF had a lot of expectations of the battlecruiser fanbois, but was to weak uptiered. She do okish on tier or in operations. At least she had a good AA at that time.

The Cossack was good, you could get her over a kind of doable mission chain, but had to drop $2 or so for a stack of tokens to get teh ship. 

After that the "free" ships turned into a terrible grindfeast or you could pay $$$$ for a shortcut.

Still, they weren't to bad, the grind was mostly controversial.

Benham: pay something like $120 or do more or less daily grind for 4 weeks. Ship is interesting, but you get screwed hard if there is a carrier around.

Puerto Rico: worse grind then the Benham, I guess not more then a handful of players got her for free. Others paid the $150 or so to unlock her at day one. Honestly, if the grind wouldn't had been so bad, people would call her okish.

Odin: grind wasn't that bad, but you needed to drop some $ to finish the missions. Ship got a bad rep at the start, but she does real well stat wise.

Anchorage: same like the Odin, but the ship is crap.

Since WG turned the ARP ships in full premiums, players got a free Atago with funky camo. She is one of the premiums that standed the test of time, she came out when the game turned from CBT to OBT. 

So, we got some good free ships, even some cost the amount of a cup of Starbucks coffee.

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

I would rather see new ships be a smidgen on the weak side which they did with the PEF instead of over powered and pulled quickly. I do think that the Oklahoma is hamstrung with its extremely slow reload combined with glacial speed even with long ranged secondaries which knowledgeable players will stay out of if possible.

PEF is far from a smidgen weak LOL. But agree with the general point.

OK gives up way too much for 1/2 way decent secondary guns at T5. Snail like speed (even slower than NY and TX), glacial turret rotation, AP that couldn't pen a dixie cup, and that asinine 40 sec reload.