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ArIskandir

What happened to the talks of Treason and Betrayal?... are we intrinsically loyal?

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So, after many days away from Key Battles, I played a good amount of matches during the weekend (extra rewards turned nice). Not once I experienced any kind of betrayal, backstabbing or "foul play"... not like I'm surprised but it is a very nice experiment on practical morality. Under normal circumstances people stick to a higher moral standard of solidarity with their neighbors (your div mates end up being your neighbors), it is a refreshing and uplifting experience to see so many players remaining loyal to their "alliances", even when given freedom to behave in a more self oriented and pragmatic way. 

After the initial days of mayhem and chaos (novelty experience), looks like order, civility and a practical moral code are the normality among the player base. Also, unsurprisingly, a mode where you can freely cheat and deceive, without a proper team concept, ends being fairly collaborative and salt free. It could be a surprise for some of you, but I've never doubted you guys are, in the overwhelming majority of cases, plain good people. 

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I find it ironic that the modes which deliberately encourage the most backstabbing are the ones in which co-operation has risen to the fore.

Maybe it's the fact that the entire premise starts out with the lowest of expectations meaning that any divergence from this appears very positive by contrast.

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4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I find it ironic that the modes which deliberately encourage the most backstabbing are the ones in which co-operation has risen to the fore.

Maybe it's the fact that the entire premise starts out with the lowest of expectations meaning that any divergence from this appears very positive by contrast.

Played a few times after they added the exp mission, never got killed by anyone i divisioned up with. One even helped me get a key and let me escape. I doubt ill be able to get enough points to get anything though.

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13 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Played a few times after they added the exp mission, never got killed by anyone i divisioned up with. One even helped me get a key and let me escape. I doubt ill be able to get enough points to get anything though.

I betrayed one team-mate once, but I apologized in div chat before I undivisioned and started firing on him.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I betrayed one team-mate once, but I apologized in div chat before I undivisioned and started firing on him.

In my regular experience, we fight it out against an enemy division... once we lose enough people on both sides, we call for peace and merge divs to replace the numbers. It is a very interesting survival of the fittest mechanic. I can see this mechanic working very nicely with high pools of players on extended maps, by match end odds are the remaining divs will be formed by the ablest players, leading to some very interesting end game fights. This game mode has a lot of potential to work around the "I loose because my team sucks" issue. I'm very curious about how WG will use the knowledge gained with this test and what will they implement in the game.

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6 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

In my regular experience, we fight it out against an enemy division... once we lose enough people on both sides, we call for peace and merge divs to replace the numbers.

I have been offered div switches in the middle of the fight. I rejected them, preferring loyalty to the div I started with. Invariably, this has ended badly for me!

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I almost always stuck with my initial division. If they went swanning about the other side of the map and didn't seem to know what they were doing, I'd leave the division. Or if we were in the Octagon and only division members were left. But I never backstabbed anybody. In the first case, I just left. In the latter, we were all "THREE... TWO... ONE... COWABUNGA IT IS."

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I have been offered div switches in the middle of the fight. I rejected them, preferring loyalty to the div I started with. Invariably, this has ended badly for me!

Precisely the point of my OP, you prioritized loyalty over practical gains. Same as most of us.  

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The mode just doesn't seem to promote backstabbing 'that much' in the average match. While there are certainly contextual opportunities to backstab someone (e.g. div fights some other div, one wins, one guy is like 10% hp, other full hp guy leavs div and kills them for their points; this happened to me precisely once), or I've left a div (when receiving an invite from another) when my original divmate(s) was just hovering around map edge and not wanting to move in like I did/was. 

 

But it seems that on average, it is much much more useful to be in a full division by the point you get to the end portal melee, for one/two less direct threats, as well as people who can contribute to your points pool. Similarly the idea of 'betraying someone for a key or points', is silly unless done extremely late game, because imagine trying to sail into portal alongside 2 divmates and there are like 2 other divs/6 ships there, vs doing it solo. Because then you're just a lone jucier target. It seems to be much easier to rack up max points at the portal melee, than to try backstab one of your teammates earlier on, and then be carrying around that key/points for the rest of the match. Also people with keys around portal get focus fired to death all the time, it's safer and more reliable to just try go for one of those than hope one of your red circle lobstereyes drops or, OR carry it around for the whole match.

 

The 'meta shift' from points to damage/kills as the desired outcome has certainly had an effect too I believe. While in the Valk/Gale period, I believe folks were more into getting points and saving towards the camos. By the time the Herc/SC mission/later BB directives came out, I was already done grinding the points for camo, I would be done with the mode in general if not for the SC/BB stuff, and a lot of people I've been running into have been saying the exact same. Every time key drops, multiple "take the key" in div chat from myself as well. The majority of people are simply done with points it seems. I had a triple div where we ALL got keys, and we all talked about it, and went to octogon together because ALL of us wanted kills/damage more than points. The common goal now is damage/kills, and while you can probably get *some more* destroyeds by kicking your divmates when they're down, it's just what, like one or two more over the course of an entire match? Having a full div working together to kill around portal (lobsters too!) and in octogon  just gets you more destroyeds/kills in general.

 

 

Edited by Skipper30087

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50 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I find it ironic that the modes which deliberately encourage the most backstabbing are the ones in which co-operation has risen to the fore.

Maybe it's the fact that the entire premise starts out with the lowest of expectations meaning that any divergence from this appears very positive by contrast.

Exactly what I thought. Players know what to expect when betrayals are normalized.

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12 minutes ago, Skipper30087 said:

 I had a triple div where we ALL got keys, and we all talked about it, and went to octogon together because ALL of us wanted kills/damage more than points.

I know at least one occasion on which I had to leave the battle, so I undivved and told the others to kill me for my points. I can't remember if I also had a key on me.

I would imagine that if you had the right team composition and consumables, it would be possible to farm quite a bit of health off each other in the Octagon before the Filth closed in and killed you all (although I believe there is a sweet spot in the middle, where one lucky player can hang out and be immune from it).

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4 minutes ago, Skipper30087 said:

The mode just doesn't seem to promote backstabbing 'that much' in the average match. While there are certainly contextual opportunities to backstab someone (e.g. div fights some other div, one wins, one guy is like 10% hp, other full hp guy leavs div and kills them for their points; this happened to me precisely once), or I've left a div (when receiving an invite from another) when my original divmate(s) was just hovering around map edge and not wanting to move in like I did/was. 

 

But it seems that on average, it is much much more useful to be in a full division by the point you get to the end portal melee, for one/two less direct threats, as well as people who can contribute to your points pool. Similarly the idea of 'betraying someone for a key or points', is silly unless done extremely late game, because imagine trying to sail into portal alongside 2 divmates and there are like 2 other divs/6 ships there, vs doing it solo. Because then you're just a lone jucier target. It seems to be much easier to rack up max points at the portal melee, than to try backstab one of your teammates earlier on, and then be carrying around that key/points for the rest of the match. Also people around portal get focus fired to death all the time, it's safer and more reliable to just try go for one of those than hope one of your red circle lobstereyes drops or, OR carry it around for the whole match.

 

The 'meta shift' from points to damage/kills as the desired outcome has certainly had an effect too I believe. While in the Valk/Gale period, I believe folks were more into getting points and saving towards the camos. By the time the Herc/SC mission/later BB directives came out, I was already done grinding the points for camo, I would be done with the mode in general if not for the SC/BB stuff, and a lot of people I've been running into have been saying the exact same. Every time key drops, multiple "take the key" in div chat from myself as well. The majority of people are simply done with points it seems. I had a triple div where we ALL got keys, and we all talked about it, and went to octogon together because ALL of us wanted kills/damage more than points. The common goal now is damage/kills, and while you can probably get *some more* destroyeds by kicking your divmates when they're down, it's just what, like one or two more over the course of an entire match? Having a full div working together to kill around portal (lobsters too!) and in octogon  just gets you more destroyeds/kills in general.

 

 

In my experience, arriving as a loner, it is fairly easy to get mixed up in the portal melee if you time it right and are patient enough to let casualties mount up and then present yourself as a reinforcement. Coming in healthy and with  high enough level/upgrades will give you a fair chance to tip the scales in any close fight. From a practical perspective, it could be viable to backstab your initial ally (as long as you can guarantee quick deletion) to farm points, kill and damage... finding more allies up ahead is not so difficult tbh, yet nobody backstabs their neighbours. 

If your point is farming more kills and damage, IMO the octagon is not the best place to do it in relation to time invested. It is  more effective to just launch the next match and feed on NPCs.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Maybe it's the fact that the entire premise starts out with the lowest of expectations meaning that any divergence from this appears very positive by contrast.

I played enough to get some nice rewards, and thanks to my allies!

shot-20.11.22_18.23.34-0928.jpg

shot-20.11.22_18.23.49-0221.jpg

shot-20.11.22_18.24.09-0747.jpg

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I had one guy in a Valkyrie that I was divisioned  with pull in front of me, leave the division, and launched his invincibility.  Nuked my Heracles just like that.  Rather scumbagish of him...

 

most everyone else was cool.

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3 hours ago, Charon2018 said:

I played enough to get some nice rewards, and thanks to my allies!

shot-20.11.22_18.23.34-0928.jpg

shot-20.11.22_18.23.49-0221.jpg

shot-20.11.22_18.24.09-0747.jpg

That is exactly what I got.  I didn't care much for the game mode at first but once I could start mounting different weapons and abilities it became fun.  Divisioning early helps a LOT.

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4 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

If your point is farming more kills and damage, IMO the octagon is not the best place to do it in relation to time invested. It is  more effective to just launch the next match and feed on NPCs.

That is the second most effective method.

The most effective is to kill the opening NPCs, then div, then exit. You will get the rewards of being in a div, they can't remove you, and you do no work at all. There is no punishment for exiting.

Thus, being a leech is way more effective than backstabbing. The reason people stopped backstabbing is that the ships are very powerful and there is no guarantee that a surprise broadside will win the day. I just play Valkaryie and have burnt down several Heracles.

Usually I just kill the first two NPCs and then exit. I find this mode quite dull, and the only thing I want are the Halloween camos for grinding, but they (of course) limited the number you can buy.

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I played a lot of new game mod... So far, my experience is completely different.

  • Never felt treason against
  • Never felt betrayel
  • Never felt anything negative outside of what to expect in the game mod.

What I did encounter was a lot of misplaced greed with the keys... I did used that as an advantage as I incorporate it in my playing stradagy.

Surprisingly, the game mod was ok... The rewards (were not that great) and restricting players on what they can spend their hard earned event points on... That in-turn, disappointed me about the game mode... It really left a sour taste in the playing experience. 

Edited by Navalpride33

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

That is the second most effective method.

The most effective is to kill the opening NPCs, then div, then exit. You will get the rewards of being in a div, they can't remove you, and you do no work at all. There is no punishment for exiting.

Thus, being a leech is way more effective than backstabbing. The reason people stopped backstabbing is that the ships are very powerful and there is no guarantee that a surprise broadside will win the day. I just play Valkaryie and have burnt down several Heracles.

Usually I just kill the first two NPCs and then exit. I find this mode quite dull, and the only thing I want are the Halloween camos for grinding, but they (of course) limited the number you can buy.

I've got to give it to you that's one heck of creative and effective way of farming CP (not useful for damage/kills tho)... And a very scumy move too. Do you work on finances? 

Now that would be a sound explanation for the couple AFKs I met at Octagon. In a couple of matches I went to Octagon after finishing every remaining ship on sight and saying goodbye to my div mates (with keys). Ended in Octagon against AFKs with significant CP on them, quite puzzling.

Edited by ArIskandir

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4 hours ago, dnaman said:

I had one guy in a Valkyrie that I was divisioned  with pull in front of me, leave the division, and launched his invincibility.  Nuked my Heracles just like that.  Rather scumbagish of him...

 

most everyone else was cool.

Lol, i love doing that 😂😂

The best one though, is using the Gale, pulling up alongside your divmate, dropping div, and torping him to death 😂

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I've got to give it to you that's one heck of creative and effective way of farming CP (not useful for damage/kills tho)... And a very scumy move too. Do you work on finances? 

Now that would be a sound explanation for the couple AFKs I met at Octagon. In a couple of matches I went to Octagon after finishing every remaining ship on sight and saying goodbye to my div mates (with keys). Ended in Octagon against AFKs with significant CP on them, quite puzzling.

Haha, no, not finance. I found it by accident, exiting when i was divved. Mostly I still just kill the first two and exit after parking far from the action. Sometimes I get transported to the Octagon and then I get more points.

I almost always went AFK in octagon, unless divved or just one ship to fight. The Octagon was, considering the payout and potential items one could purchase, a pretty serious waste of time for a player like me.

Edited by Taichunger

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