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HyperFish

Legit Question: What are you meant to achieve when you're two undertiered?

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Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

Edited by HyperFish
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Play cautiously, stay at max range and learn when to disengage early. Focus on staying alive for the first half of the match and then contribute to dps on isolated targets and achieving game objective

Being 2 tiers down you really need to be watching the minimap to make sure you don't get flanked. You can do great things though if you get the opportunity. Took my 203mm Mogami out recently into a tier 10 match (Soft T8 in a T10 match) and did 100k damage and solo capped two cap circles and came top of my team. Don't think I ever got closer than 10 km to an enemy other than an early DD that I helped chase out of a cap.

As a rule BBs handle double downtiering  best as the big guns can still murder higher tier cruisers just fine. Next are DDs who can usually (line dependent) stealth torp and contribute by capping. Finally cruisers, these are by far the hardest as they as super squishy when downtiered and often have to get closer than is ideal because of short range guns. In this case hug islands to block off firing angles but always make sure you can escape if the enemy pushes you without showing full broadside.

If you can tell us what type of ships you like to play we can offer better advice.

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The thing to keep in mind is that you have to play different based on the ships you're facing. When you're the small fish in the pond you're not the lead, you are the support. Don't be the easy target. Keep holes destroyers could sneak through plugged. Add your firepower to your team's big ships' firepower. Stack damage on ships others are engaging. Don't be the hero, you'll just die.

A good player is one who adapts to what's before him, not just plays the same no matter what.

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I play normally regardless. I can;t fight power creep.. So.. Might as well find whatever limited fun, WOWS haven't spoiled with their experimental policies.

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

The thing to keep in mind is that you have to play different based on the ships you're facing. When you're the small fish in the pond you're not the lead, you are the support. Don't be the easy target. Keep holes destroyers could sneak through plugged. Add your firepower to your team's big ships' firepower. Stack damage on ships others are engaging. Don't be the hero, you'll just die. 

A good player is one who adapts to what's before him, not just plays the same no matter what.

Good points and I will add learn what your detection radius is and don't be afraid of going dark and not firing for a while so you can reposition to a less exposed spot.

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9 minutes ago, HyperFish said:

Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

As an average at best player I actually enjoy being uptiered, to an extent, because I'm not expected to lead the charge or be the first one in the cap etc. When bottom tier think of yourself as a support ship for the higher tier ships. Tag along with them and don't be the first one spotted. Once the other team starts focusing one of your team down return fire on whichever ship your team is focusing. If they start targeting you then disengage and if necessary relocate. Play to your ship's strengths. The longer you survive the more of an asset you'll become later in the game. Cap when possible, if you have good concealment or smoke, but remember every higher tier ship loves to shoot lower tier ships. 

Basically, play cautious and watch the mini map. 

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Stay at the back line, stay with the groups of ships and make sure you aren't first out. You can still do damage, light fires, fire torps, what have you. It all depends on the ships I'm playing.

In a BB (my main) I tend to play second line. I focus my attacks on cruisers and DD's as often as possible since even lower tier BB's can deal significant damage to a higher tier cruiser, or even overmatch their extremeties. Damage to Cruisers and DD's is also much more significant than farming BB's, since they generally have limited health pools. My mind is always focused on selecting a target that is vulnerable to my shells, hence the DD and Cruiser selection. HE is never a bad idea vs enemy BB's since sticking fires can add damage up in the long term.

Cruisers I generally try to follow my team's BB's, keep enemy destroyers off and take shots at targets of opportunity when I can. My first priority is to support BB's. Most lower tier cruisers have Hydro, so I try to save mine for situations I think the enemy DD may be trying to torp my allies. If the enemy battleships are distracted by my allies, I'll farm as much damage as I can, but I am always keeping an eye on my minimap to be on the lookout for those pesky DD's. If the enemy BB starts to aim at me, I go dark and fall back. 

Bottom tier in a DD, I spend most of my time looking to spot and get good torp angles on the enemy. Contesting a cap VS a higher tier DD can be suicidal, so I try to stay alive and spot for the team. Avoid getting detected as much as you can and avoid the riskier plays since you have a much lower chance of surviving. I aim to engage enemies only when a teammate is also engaging them, and I try to screen for torpedos and stealth DD's if my concealment is good enough. I drop smoke screens in front of my allies and then pop through it to keep enemies spotted. DD's are hard to spot for all tiers, and staying alive is always better than dying to a cap early. 

 

I am no super uni, but I have had some relative sucess with the techniques I mentioned. These days I'm not phased by being bottom tier, in fact I look forward to it because you end up with higher rewards. It may require a bit more caution, but I find the challenge to be welcome. 

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39 minutes ago, HyperFish said:

How does everyone else deal with this?

1. Understand that you don't have to carry the team. Your first job is to have a greater impact than your opposite number, however modest that might be.

2. There are some actions where tier doesn't matter. Capping, resetting, spotting, smoking, communicating, calling targets etc. Staying alive and performing these actions well will win you games. 

3. Because your ship is not expected to be the "backbone" of the team, you can take alternate angles and flank without compromising the structure of your lineup. Obviously do this with caution since you can end up a quick kill. 

4. Your ship is worth between 85 and 110 points worth of swing on the scoreboard regardless of tier. Do your best to preserve those points -- even if it means running away and sitting on your hands. 

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It's a spot where you can hang back a bit and let someone else take the heat.  To some extent, when you're top tier, you really need to step up and pull your weight. 

But when you're bottom tier, the goal is to not die right off the bat and just help out where you can.  So to some extent, it's a place to focus on the survival element as much as the damage output element.  

Depending on class ofc.

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Specifically at tier 6 you see the beginning of the high tiers...8-10 are a different animal and different mentality than mid to lower tiers...low tiers is played more often like coop, high tiers is played more like self preservation...not camp but about who makes the mistakes..if you get caught out of position you will be focused and killed. I have lots of tier 6 videos out while I'm being bottom tier and explaining my strategy and thought process. My YouTube channel is meta_man2002, please subscribe if you like the videos...good luck 

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 Vice-Admiral Scheer bringing the II Battle Squadron along to the Battle of Jutland was a big mistake AND he knew it. In PvP, when you are trying to go up against ships two tiers higher than yours, in most cases, you are the SMS Pommern. Fodder.

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3 hours ago, HyperFish said:

Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

You go out & play smart since those other ships have more health and range than you. If you know when to push and be defensive while dealing damage you wind up on top of the XP.

It's not hard unless you play your ship like you do when you're top tier. Then you're a perfect target for an early match kill.

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I don't mind being bottom tier too much. I focus my fire on the high tier ships as much as possible. You get more XP, and credits from damage to higher tier ships. The trick is staying alive and those words of advice come from above (in this post).

Edited by Khafni

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You just have to play a little more passive, and choose your engagements better. The only thing that really changes is that you will not be playing as aggro because you would lose most of the engagements you fight. This doesn't mean that you cannot have match impact, it only means you are limited somewhat in having a large impact.

Don't fret about getting down tiered; as they say, what goes around comes around. You will also be that top tier ship in the same % of battles that you are the low tier ship.

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6 hours ago, Ellyh said:

Play cautiously, stay at max range and learn when to disengage early. Focus on staying alive for the first half of the match and then contribute to dps on isolated targets and achieving game objective

Being 2 tiers down you really need to be watching the minimap to make sure you don't get flanked. You can do great things though if you get the opportunity. Took my 203mm Mogami out recently into a tier 10 match (Soft T8 in a T10 match) and did 100k damage and solo capped two cap circles and came top of my team. Don't think I ever got closer than 10 km to an enemy other than an early DD that I helped chase out of a cap.

As a rule BBs handle double downtiering  best as the big guns can still murder higher tier cruisers just fine. Next are DDs who can usually (line dependent) stealth torp and contribute by capping. Finally cruisers, these are by far the hardest as they as super squishy when downtiered and often have to get closer than is ideal because of short range guns. In this case hug islands to block off firing angles but always make sure you can escape if the enemy pushes you without showing full broadside.

If you can tell us what type of ships you like to play we can offer better advice.

You are correct, but who wants to play a game where you have to be cautious for 10 whole minutes ? That is what is wrong with the two tier spread in a cruiser. Please be very careful and mindful while the one tier boats get to play normally. When I play Tallinn in T10 match, I have the same boring 1st 1/3 of game. One tier +- MM gets everyone back into the game greater % of the time.

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Keep in mind what others have said here in this thread. My advise is to look at the rewards for XP you will get at the end from the match. If you do 60k damage to a tier 8 ship with a tier 6 ship, that is not bad even if you don't survive the full engagement.

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Depends somewhat upon the tier gap - tier 7 vs. tier 9 can perhaps be the most painful - and what you're playing.

DD's = you can still scout, spot, and cap. Depending upon the ship, your torps may still be an effective weapon or deterrent

BB's = you can still push and draw fire, but you do have to be very careful to not get clobbered by whatever the highest tier stuff is (BB's smashing you, cruisers burning you, etc.) Look for other lower tier targets and beat them up, and watch out for when the "big boys" - higher tier ships - make mistakes. A salvo of 16" AP rounds into the broadside of a tier X ship can still ruin their day.

CV's = I am not any good with these, and they do get eaten alive by AAA at higher tiers. You can still spot of course, and I guess look for other low tier ships to annoy, but you're going to be limited.

Cruisers = if you're bottom-tier against enemy BB's, it's going to be a miserable experience since they see you as easy fodder. You're probably best just avoiding the big guns and looking for easier targets for most of the match. Maybe you can beat up enemy DD's - even higher tier ones will fall to sustained HE fire. Similar idea with targeting other low tier cruisers. Late game, when the enemy high-tier ships are wounded and out of position, you have a better chance of damaging them; just don't be "that guy" in a tier 6 cruiser who's rushing ahead of his team into tier 8 enemy BB's unless you want a quick trip back to port.

Note that I'm only an average player, so I am probably missing some good insights here.

Edited by old_radagast

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Advice for cruisers: the good news is that as a bottom-tier, the pressure is off. You aren't expected to carry a team or even a flank, so be conservative and guard your hp. Focus DDs. Look for ways to help via "utility" - AA, radar, hydro, or smoke (for Brits). Stay near friends and try to survive to the late game, where you can contribute by doing things that don't necessarily rely on armor or hp - contest caps, hunt CVs, etc.

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7 hours ago, HyperFish said:

Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

Operations. Your alternative is to continue to be cannon fodder.

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It teaches you to work with what you got. That way you don't die on a one shot going in, but instead, you sail around as a thinking captain employing tactics. 

At some point in early tiers you get into the habit of just sailing in, but getting up tiered is a way to get you to take a step back and be tactical in your thinking instead of two dimensional. 

 

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7 hours ago, HyperFish said:

Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

T6 to 8 is probably one of the hardest gaps.  As Lert mentioned you need to look at what you are facing and adapt to it.  I generally change from playing BBs like BBs to playing BBs like cruisers.  Kiting, angling, etc.  Cruisers I use to flank at a distance.  The "good" news is that T6 cruisers don't have radar so nobody is expecting you to push for visibility.  T6 DDs typically have a huge concealment disadvantage.  They are the ugly stepchildren of the DD tiers.  Really pay attention to what is happening with T7/8 cruisers with radar and their sneaky T7/8 DDs.  If you can get a gut feel where everyone is at you can get some good spotting and later capping for the team. 

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You can EZ be the top XP earner since you earn a lot of XP from higher tier ships. 

While the bumb between T6/7 and 8 is step because of the extra slot you get with the higher tier, there are still options:

DD: spot, try to cap with support (aka not yolo into the next cap), earn XP by damaging ships that are busy with outher boats from your team

Cruiser: support your DD, try to kill the other cruisers of our tier, spam HE at higher tier BB

BB: learn to swap between ammo, sail with other boats that the enemy may consider a more value targets

In WoT, you need ot spam gold ammo to make a scratch into the camo of a tank two level above you, in WoWs it's a doable challenge.

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8 hours ago, HyperFish said:

Seem like each time I'm trying to grind through Tier VI I'm up against Tier VIII ships. How does everyone else deal with this?

Stay alive and do as much damage as you can.  Damage from higher tier ships is much more valuable than vice versa.  Consider it an opportunity.

 

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