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eviltane

Protected MM might be too easy. Leading to too big of a shock for new players when dropping out of it.

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As the title states.  First an explanation why:  I have recently created a new account to help my clan grind oil for a new sub clan.   In the process of this I  get to go through protected MM as I level up my new account. As much fun as farming Krakens and Confederates is, I cant wait to get out of it and wish there was an option to directly skip all the newbie protections. 


However I noticed one major thing. Protected MM comes with some supremely low level bots.   THe way they play the game is to rush towards the center. Then they sit parked beside each other stopped or bow in 50 yards apart while shooting at each other and missing all the time with the only hits seemingly being due to sheer RNG.  The occasional player ( 1-3 per side) sit amongst them farming sitting ducks. 

Then at some point you get dropped into the real matches. 

While I understand new players should have it easy and learn the game. The skill gap from Protected MM to regular MM might be too much for players to continue. Also it is definitely has something to do with players that rush into caps at the beginning of games. WoWs directly trains them to do  this. 

Edited by eviltane

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I agree.

The biggest threat to new players in T3-4 is multiple CVs, and I don't believe that new players are spared from that anyway.

Put T4 back in with T6s. If nothing else, it'll improve things for T5-6.

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Psstttt one of the primary reasons i switched to COOP was the end of protected MM. I found myself with stock ships, little to no equipment and less than 10 point commanders against players in maxed out ships. it was anything but fun, and the difference in performance of ships is noticeable.

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I really wonder why after so many years there's no scripted campaign/operations focused on teaching the basics to new players. How hard could it be?

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1 hour ago, eviltane said:

As the title states.  First an explanation why:  I have recently created a new account to help my clan grind oil for a new sub clan.   In the process of this I  get to go through protected MM as I level up my new account. As much fun as farming Krakens and Confederates is, I cant wait to get out of it and wish there was an option to directly skip all the newbie protections. 


However I noticed one major thing. Protected MM comes with some supremely low level bots.   THe way they play the game is to rush towards the center. Then they sit parked beside each other stopped or bow in 50 yards apart while shooting at each other and missing all the time with the only hits seemingly being due to sheer RNG.  The occasional player ( 1-3 per side) sit amongst them farming sitting ducks. 

Then at some point you get dropped into the real matches. 

While I understand new players should have it easy and learn the game. The skill gap from Protected MM to regular MM might be too much for players to continue. Also it is definitely has something to do with players that rush into caps at the beginning of games. WoWs directly trains them to do  this. 

Brother is trying to learn the game.  He is already too smart for the game it seems.  He doesn't like the +2 gap that he gets playing a Tier 5, understanding he has to play carefully which he finds the last one on that side, and the rest of his team is on the other side hiding in a ball in the back of the map.  How do we get more players if I can't get him on board lol?  

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Hehe, protected MM isn't that protected anymore when every Tier 4 match has double seal clubbing CVs on each team ;)

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3 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Hehe, protected MM isn't that protected anymore when every Tier 4 match has double seal clubbing CVs on each team ;)

You're only protected for 200(?) matches.  I don't think you see experienced seal clubbers until you are done.

Unless they are re-rolls.

At 201, you are fresh meat though.

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Last year I did something similar, but as a test on how quickly I could get to tier VI and what a new player has to some extent go through. 

The jump from protected to normal MM at tier V is possibly one of the biggest hurdles in the game so far. 

My suspicion is that being put into such an environment will lead you being so frustrated that you will buy premium content, be it time or ship, in the faulty belief that this will get you victories and overcome the higher skill floor.

 

Edited by warheart1992

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2 hours ago, eviltane said:

While I understand new players should have it easy and learn the game. The skill gap from Protected MM to regular MM might be too much for players to continue. Also it is definitely has something to do with players that rush into caps at the beginning of games. WoWs directly trains them to do  this.

I take it you are leveling while farming oil in "COOP" matches. It is still pretty much the case at high tier ships. The play strategies between coop and random are significant. 

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I really wonder why after so many years there's no scripted campaign/operations focused on teaching the basics to new players. How hard could it be?

Because the game changes too regularly with the addition of new content. Anything they did might be obsolete weeks after it came out.

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39 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Because the game changes too regularly with the addition of new content. Anything they did might be obsolete weeks after it came out.

  • Concealment and vision mechanics haven't changed  since gun bloom adjustment
  • Angling, bounces and Overmatch haven't changed
  • Shooting and aiming hasn't changed
  • Fires, Floods, Damage Control and Repair haven't changed. (as mechanics, individual values are adjusted but are irrelevant for a tutorial)
  • Radar; Hydro, Boosts and other generic consumables have't changed
  • Game modes: Standard, Domination and Epicenter remain the same since Epicenter was inducted

Everything but CV related stuff is the same as 3-4 years ago. If they structure the tutorials in a segmented by concept way, it would be easy to adjust any change in the corresponding tutorial and not mess with the whole bundle of tutorials

They add content in the form of new ships, lines and adjustment of values (nerf/buff) but the core concepts and mechanics haven't changed and are very unlikely to change. That excuse doesn't stand.

Edited by ArIskandir
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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

but the core concepts and mechanics haven't changed and are very unlikely to change.

When the skill tree changed, a whole swath of YouTube vids from otherwise very good and reliable people became obsolete overnight.

When it changes again, those people's updated content will become obsolete again.

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It's almost as if you have to take them out of the kiddy pool and enroll them in a boot camp to toughen them up.

Yes, I agree. After 201, they become fresh meat 🍖 for the meat grinder.

But I also noticed we are getting cod, rainbow6, and any other fps rejects.

I am calling them rejects because they are unable to hit oscar mike.

So, while it is a game of shooty botes, it's never competitive enough to be taken seriously.

The fps shooter rejects usually lose their minds after heavy losses out of MM protection. So expect a drop off soon.

WG does need a training room or a scenario combat mode to transition players to qualify for Randoms.

Mastery is number of games played in each specific task. There could be several tasks. This will give them the experience and maybe prepare them for the Randoms matches where they are most likely going to be eaten up alive without this training.

I suggest requalification of all current players if WG does this to be fair.

This will be a good way to improve Randoms for everyone and maybe everyone will learn something.

Just think of it as like getting that driver's license renewal notification in the mail. Only you have to take the road test again. LOL 🤣

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:
  • Concealment and vision mechanics haven't changed  since gun bloom adjustment
  • Angling, bounces and Overmatch haven't changed
  • Shooting and aiming hasn't changed
  • Fires, Floods, Damage Control and Repair haven't changed. (as mechanics, individual values are adjusted but are irrelevant for a tutorial)
  • Radar; Hydro, Boosts and other generic consumables have't changed
  • Game modes: Standard, Domination and Epicenter remain the same since Epicenter was inducted

Everything but CV related stuff is the same as 3-4 years ago. If they structure the tutorials in a segmented by concept way, it would be easy to adjust any change in the corresponding tutorial and not mess with the whole bundle of tutorials

They add content in the form of new ships, lines and adjustment of values (nerf/buff) but the core concepts and mechanics haven't changed and are very unlikely to change. That excuse doesn't stand.

Yes, nothing has really changed much.

Only the high levels of 🥔.

Either all the players are losing their skills or the player population is so diluted with less skilled players with average account age of 1 year.

That is probably it.🤔

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13 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When the skill tree changed, a whole swath of YouTube vids from otherwise very good and reliable people became obsolete overnight.

When it changes again, those people's updated content will become obsolete again.

It is different, that's info related to captains and skill builds, and not really so critical as to have an official tutorial about builds and skills. What I mean is tutorials for core mechanics, a concealment and vision tutorial for example would be extremely valuable to train new players, and we don't have any... we have videos on Youtube but nothing practical in game to play and explore first hand.

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4 hours ago, Skpstr said:

I agree.

The biggest threat to new players in T3-4 is multiple CVs, and I don't believe that new players are spared from that anyway.

Put T4 back in with T6s. If nothing else, it'll improve things for T5-6.

 

3 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Hehe, protected MM isn't that protected anymore when every Tier 4 match has double seal clubbing CVs on each team ;)

To be honest in protected MM I have seen zero CVs in my games.   Yes they exist a lot at Tier 4 yes when you are out of protected MM. However while in the protected queue I have only seen 3 or so CVs each of them at different times and they never came into my matches. 

 

2 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

You're only protected for 200(?) matches.  I don't think you see experienced seal clubbers until you are done.

Unless they are re-rolls.

At 201, you are fresh meat though.

 

3 hours ago, Nachoo31 said:

Brother is trying to learn the game.  He is already too smart for the game it seems.  He doesn't like the +2 gap that he gets playing a Tier 5, understanding he has to play carefully which he finds the last one on that side, and the rest of his team is on the other side hiding in a ball in the back of the map.  How do we get more players if I can't get him on board lol?  

I wonder where the border is. I will see tonight if going to Tier 5 kicks me out of protected MM.  That might have happened to your brother which most certainly would be a jarring experience. It would be almost worth it to ask him to start over on tier 2-3 now that he is out of protected MM just so he can actually work up and understand going to T5.   I know the game of course  but If I got 200 some matches in protected, as @DrHolmes52 indicates, I could get every single tech tree Tier 4 in less then 100.   

 

1 hour ago, Crash54 said:

I take it you are leveling while farming oil in "COOP" matches. It is still pretty much the case at high tier ships. The play strategies between coop and random are significant. 

 NONO  I am playing randoms in protected, I apreciate that someone could mix these up. However I know exactly how to tell coop from randoms. Just as final proof  and not bragging you can see here these matches are in random mode: https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1042904336,GreatTane/  . Any losses that I have had are simply down to me simply not caring anymore and yoloing into too many ships at once.   Also the protected bots are FAR worse then Coop bots in every respect which is kind of the point I am getting at. 

 

32 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

It's almost as if you have to take them out of the kiddy pool and enroll them in a boot camp to toughen them up.

Yes, I agree. After 201, they become fresh meat 🍖 for the meat grinder.

 

20 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It is different, that's info related to captains and skill builds, and not really so critical as to have an official tutorial about builds and skills. What I mean is tutorials for core mechanics, a concealment and vision tutorial for example would be extremely valuable to train new players, and we don't have any... we have videos on Youtube but nothing practical in game to play and explore first hand.

 

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Because the game changes too regularly with the addition of new content. Anything they did might be obsolete weeks after it came out.

I do think there should be room to teach something like kiting and dodging shells and really most importantly  not rushing into the middle thinking that there will be a whole bunch of easy targets to feed on. 

Edited by eviltane
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Past 3 days I have been grinding the soyuz in almost every match. I've noticed if I'm in with all tier 9s or mixed with 10s the games have been very close and I've been winning at a good rate. However when I'm top tier the game is over within the first 5 min. I remember when I wanted to be top tier. Now I dread it.

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5 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I really wonder why after so many years there's no scripted campaign/operations focused on teaching the basics to new players. How hard could it be?

Because it would be work that would alleviate some of the frustration that their selling premiums as content model is addicted to.

Having an introductory 'campaign' would be a lot like a scenario & we all know how much WG hates those.

-Because apparently putting an introductory campaign behind a gatekeeper like timers, or only so many times through for a given boat, or having to pre-qualify(say, by playing X number of randoms in meh-boat-of-the-week) once you've already run a ship through, that would be too much like work. 

-WG's oft used excuse is actually a motto; "We don't have enough programmers to fix things that are broken because the programmers we have are busy marching towards the great future. Here; buy another pretty boat, we have lots of modelers & colorists. . "

4 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Last year I did something similar, but as a test on how quickly I could get to tier VI and what a new player has to some extent go through. 

The jump from protected to normal MM at tier V is possibly one of the biggest hurdles in the game so far. 

My suspicion is that being put into such an environment will lead you being so frustrated that you will buy premium content, be it time or ship, in the faulty belief that this will get you victories and overcome the higher skill floor.

 

*see above.

3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Because the game changes too regularly with the addition of new content. Anything they did might be obsolete weeks after it came out.

What content? Directives are nothing but grind events.

The seasonal games function separately from MM in randoms.

The only thing that changes is the meta. OWSF, nerfs/buffs to ships, gimmick A is hot this month, the CV rework, gimmick B is the new hotness, etc. etc.

The only really new maps are for seasonal games that only last a short while & those maps don't make it into rotation.

 

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5 hours ago, eviltane said:

 

To be honest in protected MM I have seen zero CVs in my games.   Yes they exist a lot at Tier 4 yes when you are out of protected MM. However while in the protected queue I have only seen 3 or so CVs each of them at different times and they never came into my matches. 

 

 

I wonder where the border is. I will see tonight if going to Tier 5 kicks me out of protected MM.  That might have happened to your brother which most certainly would be a jarring experience. It would be almost worth it to ask him to start over on tier 2-3 now that he is out of protected MM just so he can actually work up and understand going to T5.   I know the game of course  but If I got 200 some matches in protected, as @DrHolmes52 indicates, I could get every single tech tree Tier 4 in less then 100.   

 

 NONO  I am playing randoms in protected, I apreciate that someone could mix these up. However I know exactly how to tell coop from randoms. Just as final proof  and not bragging you can see here these matches are in random mode: https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1042904336,GreatTane/  . Any losses that I have had are simply down to me simply not caring anymore and yoloing into too many ships at once.   Also the protected bots are FAR worse then Coop bots in every respect which is kind of the point I am getting at. 

 

 

 

I do think there should be room to teach something like kiting and dodging shells and really most importantly  not rushing into the middle thinking that there will be a whole bunch of easy targets to feed on. 

I can volunteer. I can get a hold of a bucket of wrenches and take some of these guys to their local park and throw wrenches at them.

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6 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I can volunteer. I can get a hold of a bucket of wrenches and take some of these guys to their local park and throw wrenches at them.

Lol Learn the 5  Ds:  Dodge,  Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge. 
https://youtu.be/peUyLXrgYZ0

Edited by eviltane
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10 minutes ago, eviltane said:

Lol Learn the 5  Ds:  Dodge,  Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge. 
https://youtu.be/peUyLXrgYZ0

Ocean map:  3 Woosters, 3 Yamatos, 2 Montanas, and one Hakuryu each side. 

The Hakuryus slip stage left and the BBs open fire in the early seconds of CV spots as the cruisers turn violently to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

Only there is a 6th D in Warships, Detonate!

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman

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