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ST 0.9.11, changes to test ships

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Yeah, not much interest in Fen Yang now.

Pan-Asian destroyer Fen Yang, Tier VIII:

  • HE shell parameters were changed:
    • Armor penetration reduced from 30 to 17 mm;

What about her "sisters"? Care to make them real as well or still gonna gimmick them? Just apply the same treatment and, voila!

image.png.f117923a78140133d1421cdfa9436c7b.png

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Fen Yang obviously as announced on dev blog was just a better Akizuki, no question about that. 

But with that change you get 17mm penetration, whereas you need 19mm to just be able to penetrate the superstructure of most ships and deal damage to the hull of similar tier DDs. 

The way these changes function drive you to either go full fire build, which solely relies on RNG, and for which to optimize you have to get one of the special commanders with increased DE fIre chance but deal almost no damage aside from CLs, or get IFHE, which compared to Akizuki has pathetic returns.

Revert all those weird changes to fire chance, damage, reload, just give the ship 19mm of HE penetration.

I remember justifying the IJN gunboat HE penetration buff to CL levels by talking about how these ships should be playable without IFHE and deep Commander skill investments, yet we see this now.

Edited by warheart1992
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Yea I had no doubt WG would follow the path of "national flavor" and only let the 30mm pen on the 100mm guns remain only for IJNs.

What's even more funny is that Fen Yang doesn't even follow the same national gimmick of the Pan Asian torps and instead have the Asashio deep water torps which is only good for BBs and CVs

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While I like the idea of reducing the penetration of her 100mm HE (none of those guns should have 30mm pen, in my opinion), I worry that the combination of only being able to pen up to 21mm (with IFHE) and having Asashio DW torps will leave Fen Yang excessively vulnerable to enemy cruisers. Adding in Akizuki’s characteristic (lack of) speed and maneuverability and no speed boost just makes things even worse. IMO, she needs either more HE pen (20mm, or 1/5 pen would work, and IFHE would bump it up to 25mm) or normal PA deep water torps so she is not simply food for any cruiser that stumbles upon her or chases her down.

Edited by Nevermore135
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I agree with @Khafni, no interest at all in the Fen Yang if the changes in penetration are permanent.

I also see WG is trying to change the Lepanto into the Minnesota with the re-load times.  WG has a sense of humor.   

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Fen Yang: Just give it 1/5 HE pen and be done with it ( for 20mm HE pen base ).
It seam some at WG forgot why the IJN 100mm guns went form 1/6 pen to 1/4 pen values when Kitakaze and Harugum ware added.

Mysore: Stop trying to make Fiji fit at tier 6, Perth is already there.
Just undo all the nerfs and make it a tier 7 Commonwealth CL.

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16 minutes ago, Sammy_Small said:

Fen Yang: Just give it 1/5 HE pen and be done with it ( for 20mm HE pen base ).
It seam some at WG forgot why the IJN 100mm guns went form 1/6 pen to 1/4 pen values when Kitakaze and Harugum ware added.

Mysore: Stop trying to make Fiji fit at tier 6, Perth is already there.
Just undo all the nerfs and make it a tier 7 Commonwealth CL.

IJN 100mm guns pen 30mm. They got a "better than everyone" pen assist just to make them viable...

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7 minutes ago, Khafni said:

IJN 100mm guns pen 30mm. They got a "better than everyone" pen assist just to make them viable...

They have 30mm of pen now, but before the HE/ IFHE/ Plating Changes, they used to have 1/4 HE pen ( 24mm base and  32mm with IFHE )

Edited by Sammy_Small
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1 hour ago, Sammy_Small said:

They have 30mm of pen now, but before the HE/ IFHE/ Plating Changes, they used to have 1/4 HE pen ( 24mm base and  32mm with IFHE )

And they still performed well with out the cartoonish pen: AP anyone?

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Dante, Cavour: expected

Doria: expected

Other Italians: expected

Plymouth: Not sure if that was needed

Leone: who knew waiting 75secs for 4 sea mines to reload was pain

Fen Yang: how to go from OP to DOA in one sweep. Edit: Also appears at some point WG nerfed the reload even further, now 4.5secs instead of 4secs

Mysore: I’m starting to think playing this ship will give you some sort of sore. Edit 2: totally forgot they also added a heal to her, so now that explains a lot of the reload nerfs

Also amazing that Hizen and Strasbourg aren’t here, might be a first.

Edited by tfcas119

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3 hours ago, Crokodone said:

And they still performed well with out the cartoonish pen: AP anyone?

Thing is, they didn't.

Even the Jutland and Daring, with AP fuse setting and ricochet angles that compensated for the lack of 19mm pen still needed IFHE to be fully competitive .

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3 hours ago, TouchFluffyTail said:

Thing is, they didn't.

You should watch some youtube videos on them prior to the great buff. The only thing they couldn't do was mindlessly spam HE.

Regarding Jutland and Daring, those ships over perform.

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With all the shifting around of the Italian BBs, I'm trying to figure out if their introduction will lead to more overpowered or underpowered threads.

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14 hours ago, Crokodone said:

You should watch some youtube videos on them prior to the great buff. The only thing they couldn't do was mindlessly spam HE. 

As someone who played the original Akizuki with and without IFHE, I'll let you in on a secret. You're wrong.

Not taking IFHE left the Akizuki, one of the best gunboat DDs in the game, reliant on torpedoes and RNG to deal damage. Not every enemy is going to be AFK or sit their and let you shell a broadside. But unfortunately for your dreams of an AP only Akizuki, angles exist in WoWS and it doesn't have the Tachibana's never-ricochet AP.

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Quote

Italian destroyer Leone, Tier VI:

Torpedo tubes reload time reduced from 75 to 60 s.

How about just stop trying to balance Leone at T6 (something you've been unable to do for literally years now) and move her down to T5 where she belongs, with the correct gun stats (750m/s muzzle velocity and 2000 AP alpha) and just have her be a low/mid tier gunboat with terrible torps. That's her natural role. If you wanted a large Italian DD at T6 you should've used one of the Navigatoris. 2x3 torps is barely adequate for the tier while Leone's 2x2 never will be.

On 11/20/2020 at 7:07 AM, Avalon304 said:

Oh WG please... dont mess up Plymouth... I need a proper UK CL trainer...

I still wish they'd used Belfast 43 for that purpose. Since that's not an option anymore, they should add Sheffield at T8 for that role. 

 

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On 11/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, DrHolmes52 said:

With all the shifting around of the Italian BBs, I'm trying to figure out if their introduction will lead to more overpowered or underpowered threads.

Reading all the dev blogs about changes to Italian BBs. It is highly likely they will look like this...

FUN1.gif.b930760a86fbe04be5d187ffe3bca66c.gif

( unless there is an unforeseen "feature"  that makes them OP )

Edited by Sammy_Small

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23 hours ago, TouchFluffyTail said:

As someone who played the original Akizuki with and without IFHE, I'll let you in on a secret. You're wrong.

So your the only one here who played post buff Akizuki: right...

23 hours ago, TouchFluffyTail said:


Not taking IFHE left the Akizuki, one of the best gunboat DDs in the game, reliant on torpedoes and RNG to deal damage. Not every enemy is going to be AFK or sit their and let you shell a broadside. But unfortunately for your dreams of an AP only Akizuki, angles exist in WoWS and it doesn't have the Tachibana's never-ricochet AP.

very contradicting statement. Furthermore, without 1/4 pen and with that shell velocity, superstructure hits were efficient and easy; enough to hit, and infuriating enough to force most t6-10 DDs to show enough angle to AP pen most ships. Also:

 

the unnecessary 1/4 pen buff turned Akizuki from the Japanese Atlanta to the Japanese Worcester without a citadel; before there was a Worcester.

Akizuki was competitive with 1/6th HE pen, even CLs were overpowered by her. Now, with 1/4 pen that list includes almost everything. 1/4 pen is a class breaking buff and it needs revoking.

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Ah yes, because videos demonstrating IFHE performance are indicative of performance without. The point isn't that the original Akizuki was bad, it's that forcing taking IFHE just to deal damage is bad.

 

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2 minutes ago, TouchFluffyTail said:

Ah yes, because videos demonstrating IFHE performance are indicative of performance without. The point isn't that the original Akizuki was bad, it's that forcing taking IFHE just to deal damage is bad.

 

which still didn't justify the application of 1/4 penetration. Giving the ships 1/4 pen only made IFHE more mandatory to take, not less; especially with that reload.

 

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2 hours ago, Crokodone said:

which still didn't justify the application of 1/4 penetration. Giving the ships 1/4 pen only made IFHE more mandatory to take, not less; especially with that reload.

1/5 HE pen for those 100mm guns would've made more sense.

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