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SeaGladius

Do CVs cause LESS spotting?

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I had a match this morning with a CV and 3 DDs, and the DDs were all so worried about getting shot once detected that they were hiding behind rocks and in smoke screens. Our CV was garbage - I have no idea what he actually did all match.

For most of the match I had no one to shoot at.  Every time my radar came up, I’d spot a DD or a Mino to shoot at for 30 seconds, then they’d disappear again.

point is, 1/3 of the team specializes in spotting, but couldn’t or wouldn’t. The Red team had no problem utilizing that spotting to their advantage.  So is this a second order effect of the spotting that CVs have? Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

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38 minutes ago, SeaGladius said:

So is this a second order effect of the spotting that CVs have? Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

Yes.

CVs increase the level of risk for DDs, not everybody is up for the challenge. Note that I am not saying anything about enjoyment of the game, strictly the choice to take the necessary risks. Plenty of players that dislike CVs still do what they need to, even if they're having less fun. (although they're probably having more fun than the timid teammates you describe)

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51 minutes ago, SeaGladius said:

I had a match this morning with a CV and 3 DDs, and the DDs were all so worried about getting shot once detected that they were hiding behind rocks and in smoke screens. Our CV was garbage - I have no idea what he actually did all match.

For most of the match I had no one to shoot at.  Every time my radar came up, I’d spot a DD or a Mino to shoot at for 30 seconds, then they’d disappear again.

point is, 1/3 of the team specializes in spotting, but couldn’t or wouldn’t. The Red team had no problem utilizing that spotting to their advantage.  So is this a second order effect of the spotting that CVs have? Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

Some DD's doesn't wanna take a risk spotting if there is a CV's ..it works both ways...Some DD's doesn't care if there is a CV's ..I prefer a Game with CV's if I'm playing a DD class..since i dont need to spot anymore  all i need to do  is to Cap/Torp BBs/or fight enemy DD's.

Edited by 9TenSix2Eight

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DDs still win or lose games.  While yolo DDs still exist, I see a lot more of them staying behind friendly cruisers and BBs as they are afraid of planes, radar, enemy DDs with hydro/radar etc.  

I've started to really enjoy the Benham, and learned spot as my primary job.  While it may not net huge damage numbers, I can usually spot a radar cruiser or two that friendly BBs are only too happy to shoot at.   Once the radar is killed or running off, then I can cap and torpedo.  Air detection is so low on DDs that I keep my AA off and only use the priority sector/DFAA once spotted or if the planes really can't do much to me.   The Benham is no Friesland in AA terms, but it helps. 

It also doesn't hurt to have friendly planes spotting for you especially if you can damage a red DD with little chance of effective return fire.  

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2 hours ago, SeaGladius said:

I had a match this morning with a CV and 3 DDs, and the DDs were all so worried about getting shot once detected that they were hiding behind rocks and in smoke screens. Our CV was garbage - I have no idea what he actually did all match.

For most of the match I had no one to shoot at.  Every time my radar came up, I’d spot a DD or a Mino to shoot at for 30 seconds, then they’d disappear again.

point is, 1/3 of the team specializes in spotting, but couldn’t or wouldn’t. The Red team had no problem utilizing that spotting to their advantage.  So is this a second order effect of the spotting that CVs have? Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

Sounds like a bad CV player, or one that's been busy concentrating one flank versus trying to keep the entire game in control. It isn't easy. If the CV player clocked in less than 15-20 games in that tier, don't expect much. He is still struggling to figure out his planes and testing how squishy they are against the new tier's AA. 

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I thought he was going to say CVs reduce spotting because they get all the potato DDs sunk in the first 5 minutes. :cap_look:

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How to spot a New/Bad CV player in the first 10 seconds of the match.

If there are two or more DDs on the Red Team and your CV player starts with Torps... you have a problem.

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35 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

How to spot a New/Bad CV player in the first 10 seconds of the match.

If there are two or more DDs on the Red Team and your CV player starts with Torps... you have a problem.

Unless he is a unicom and can torp even smoked up DDs: 
 

 

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47 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I thought he was going to say CVs reduce spotting because they get all the potato DDs sunk in the first 5 minutes. :cap_look:

It is a fact.. CVs, have  decidedly made potato DDs a more endangered specie.   

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I do not think it is couldn't. I play dd's and even in CV matches, I get fairly large spotting numbers.  A dd can keep CA/CL's and BB's spotted when a CV is only able to be sporadic. 

Your DD has to be willing to withstand air and radar attacks to do the job. I used to despair when I had a CV in game because I thought half of my job(spotting) was gone. This may have been true in RTS, but not in current state of CV.   A CV can do a better job of spotting DD's, but even that is sporadic when I am able to toggle my AA on and off. Fighters don't seem to last under the most basic of AA from DD's.

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As a DD player, it irks me when you expect so much spotting out of us.  We going to take damage unless we are in a line with a repair skill.  We have to be picky.   That includes knowing the dds on the other team, radar/hydro ships, and add a CV, we do 10x more the work and get nothing for spotting other than helping win a match.

If you don't see a DD pushing, scan the map.  Is there a radar ship in the area?  CV planes in the area?  

Also, I would ask you to play like you would if there were no DDs in the game or left.   For the love god, zip it about DDs spotting if there is one left and he on the opposite side of the map. 

CVs should be spotting but 90% don't do it.  And if they are in a division with a buddy.. forget any plane support for the rest of the team.  Sorry if you are not that way as a CV player.

Again remember this just a few bad apples.  Not everyone is this stupid.  But you have to remind the masses.

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When a carrier shows up, forget spotting for the day. It will spot everything.

That gives you a chance to sort out the radar ships and the more dangerous DD's and act accordingly. Airstrikes are less of a problem as the air defenses get hardened.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

I do not think it is couldn't. I play dd's and even in CV matches, I get fairly large spotting numbers.  A dd can keep CA/CL's and BB's spotted when a CV is only able to be sporadic. 

Your DD has to be willing to withstand air and radar attacks to do the job. I used to despair when I had a CV in game because I thought half of my job(spotting) was gone. This may have been true in RTS, but not in current state of CV.   A CV can do a better job of spotting DD's, but even that is sporadic when I am able to toggle my AA on and off. Fighters don't seem to last under the most basic of AA from DD's.

CV's can do a better job spotting BB's because they can avoid the AA while spotting them. Except for the seen from space cruisers the difference in spotting range and AA range is too small for safe spotting and finding DD's with their AA off is a lot like finding your keys in a black room and in the upper tiers their AA is dangerous enough to make hanging around a poor idea.

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I do an initial wide spot for the team and provide air cover when it’s convenient but otherwise just focus on putting out strategic fires. If under tiered I just look for vulnerable enemies after the wide spot. If there are none then it’s just totenrit wherever the team is focused or needs it the most. All changing as necessary when circumstances change which they almost (almost) always do.

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3 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

CV's can do a better job spotting BB's because they can avoid the AA while spotting them. Except for the seen from space cruisers the difference in spotting range and AA range is too small for safe spotting and finding DD's with their AA off is a lot like finding your keys in a black room and in the upper tiers their AA is dangerous enough to make hanging around a poor idea.

That sounds cool. I don't CV, so I am guessing. I know that even in CV games, I get good spotting numbers. And most of the time, I avoid CVs, or at least survive them.  

A good CV player who wants a DD can get it. Well, my DD at least.    There are 10-20% of CVs who I cannot escape. 

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5 hours ago, Nachoo31 said:

As a DD player, it irks me when you expect so much spotting out of us.  We going to take damage unless we are in a line with a repair skill.  We have to be picky.   That includes knowing the dds on the other team, radar/hydro ships, and add a CV, we do 10x more the work and get nothing for spotting other than helping win a match.

If you don't see a DD pushing, scan the map.  Is there a radar ship in the area?  CV planes in the area?  

Also, I would ask you to play like you would if there were no DDs in the game or left.   For the love god, zip it about DDs spotting if there is one left and he on the opposite side of the map. 

CVs should be spotting but 90% don't do it.  And if they are in a division with a buddy.. forget any plane support for the rest of the team.  Sorry if you are not that way as a CV player.

Again remember this just a few bad apples.  Not everyone is this stupid.  But you have to remind the masses.

Some good points.  I suppose it’s fair to say that everyone wants their teammates to do more!  In this case, the Red CV was focusing on our flank, but no radar cruisers.  We had 2 DDs on our flank (a Gearing and a Shimakaze) both of whom were hiding behind rocks or in their smoke.  Without spotting I basically had to play as if their were no DDs left, to include trying to push toward the B cap, instead of hiding behind the A cap like half my team was doing.

Obviously, I’m a little frustrated by how that game went, but I understand how challenging it is for DDs these days.  In this instance, the only unbalanced factor that I could see to explain the difference between red and green team spotting was the effectiveness of our respective CVs.  Maybe a better way to ask the question is, “DD mains, do you find it harder to spot for your team if a CV is around?”  While I think the answer is yes, I also think that the effect of the CV shouldn’t be constant, and therefore the DDs should be able to provide some spotting.

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12 hours ago, SeaGladius said:

I had a match this morning with a CV and 3 DDs, and the DDs were all so worried about getting shot once detected that they were hiding behind rocks and in smoke screens. Our CV was garbage - I have no idea what he actually did all match.

For most of the match I had no one to shoot at.  Every time my radar came up, I’d spot a DD or a Mino to shoot at for 30 seconds, then they’d disappear again.

point is, 1/3 of the team specializes in spotting, but couldn’t or wouldn’t. The Red team had no problem utilizing that spotting to their advantage.  So is this a second order effect of the spotting that CVs have? Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

it does cause less people playing this game though...

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12 hours ago, SeaGladius said:

Or was it just a matter of my team being a bunch of potatoes?

This.

CVs generally increase spotting by a huge amount, being able to spot the entire enemy team within the first minute and keep at least one flank lit for the rest of the match. Whatever spotting they deny by killing off enemy DDs they make up for by being able to spot themselves. If your CV is incompetent however and refuses to spot, that doesn't mean CVs cause less spotting, that simply means your CV player was a potato.

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