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Monarch, what is his identity?

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The Monarch is a weird ship, and I still wonder what is his identity in the line. AP spammer like the QE? At tier 8 his guns are on the lower side in penetration and overmatch, and its accuracy is pretty bad. HE spammer like the KGV? It do feel lacking in that regard, with a weaker HE DPM with weaker fire chance for no real other advantage than the KGV, a tier lower. Sure it got great concealment and a good heal, but it is one of the few ships that I feel carrying is out of limit with. Am I wrong? Is it really the worst tier 8 bb?

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55 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

The Monarch is a weird ship, and I still wonder what is his identity in the line.

Turd in the punchbowl; the mandatory POS ship every line has that makes you keep on grinding up to tier 10.

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21 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Turd in the punchbowl; the mandatory POS ship every line has that makes you keep on grinding up to tier 10.

Well, even the other lemon (Izumo, FDG, Colorado) seemed somewhat good in comparison. The Monarch is, at its core, a worst KGV one tier higher.

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Mongrel in theory rewards dynamic shell selection, neither the AP or HE are strong enough to be the dominant go-to. 

Ideally you want to try and exploit the stealth to put broadsides into unsuspecting cruisers at short range, but the accuracy can make that unrewarding - though still a goal to go for. 

If you're confronted by lots of higher tier ships I'd almost default to the HE. If you're solidly too tier with lots of targets to overmatch then AP should be the default.

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21 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Well, even the other lemon (Izumo, FDG, Colorado) seemed somewhat good in comparison. The Monarch is, at its core, a worst KGV one tier higher.

If I recall correctly the Monarch is one of the alternate proposals that was ultimately rejected in favour of the KGV class. That says it all.

57 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Turd in the punchbowl; the mandatory POS ship every line has that makes you keep on grinding up to tier 10.

While a poor ship I rate the Monarch ahead of the Lion. That ship is just terrible.

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1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Well, even the other lemon (Izumo, FDG, Colorado) seemed somewhat good in comparison. The Monarch is, at its core, a worst KGV one tier higher.

Nobody's really liked Monarch ever since the RNBB Line came out.

She's not a historically built ship like KGV, Vanguard, Warspite, Duke of York, Warspite, etc.  Her only claim to fame was the RN was thinking about building her.

In the game, her AP isn't all that and KGV one tier lower is a better fire starter.

At launch she had a very hard to punish Citadel, so at least she had "defense" going for her, but even then, nobody liked her.

 

Then WG in a series of changes to RNBB Line, raised Monarch's Citadel.  A ship that nobody really liked to begin with, was made worse.  I don't understand WG's thought process with this ship.

28 minutes ago, collisionSpace said:

If I recall correctly the Monarch is one of the alternate proposals that was ultimately rejected in favour of the KGV class. That says it all.

While a poor ship I rate the Monarch ahead of the Lion. That ship is just terrible.


IMO, Tier VIII-IX is the "Conqueror Tax" as well as punishment for having enjoyed King George V in Tier VII.  I wasn't fond of Lion.  When the RNBB Line released, I FreeXP'd to Conkeke on Day 1.  Great ship, etc.  Later on I bought Lion since I already had her unlocked due to Conqueror.  I was not impressed by the gun accuracy.

 

It made me remember an early experiment I did with Conqueror.  When I got her, I did the typical Main Battery - Stealth - Survival Hybrid Build.  Worked great.  I wanted to try something different later and implemented an AA Build, so no more ASM1.  The accuracy was not to my liking at all, she was less reliable.  This was during the RTS CV Days, mind you, and I built a lot of AA Build Battleships, even Gneisenau in AA.  But Conqueror with even 12 guns without ASM1 was not cool.  With the gun accuracy so bad without ASM1, I ditched the AA Build and went back to the old one.

 

So Lion one tier lower with 9 instead of 12 guns, even with ASM1, was a far less enjoyable experience.

 

The RN 419mm guns aren't accurate.  It's the fact that Conqueror has 12 of them which masks the accuracy issues.  With Lion having only 9 rifles, she doesn't get the extra dice rolls Conkeke does to make up for the accuracy problems.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

The Monarch is a weird ship, and I still wonder what is his identity in the line. AP spammer like the QE? At tier 8 his guns are on the lower side in penetration and overmatch, and its accuracy is pretty bad. HE spammer like the KGV? It do feel lacking in that regard, with a weaker HE DPM with weaker fire chance for no real other advantage than the KGV, a tier lower. Sure it got great concealment and a good heal, but it is one of the few ships that I feel carrying is out of limit with. Am I wrong? Is it really the worst tier 8 bb?

I don't think she is the worst. But their ammo is supposed to be "historical". The HE shell designed for what WG called Monarch used less explosives than the one used in KGV. 

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3 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

Well, even the other lemon (Izumo, FDG, Colorado) seemed somewhat good in comparison. The Monarch is, at its core, a worst KGV one tier higher.

You don't have to tell me, I'm grinding that turkey right now. Man, I hate that ship! Crap range on the main battery, and when you do hit something it's for next to nothing damage. It catches fire if the sun shines on it. It turns like it was much, much bigger and heavier, and accelerates like my grandma in school zone. I don't care how bad Lion is, it can't be worse than Monarch. 

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2 hours ago, collisionSpace said:

While a poor ship I rate the Monarch ahead of the Lion. That ship is just terrible.

CANNOT be worse than Monarch, because while it sees the exact same ships in a match, it's a tier higher and at least has more hit points.

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7 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

The Monarch is a weird ship, and I still wonder what is his identity in the line. AP spammer like the QE? At tier 8 his guns are on the lower side in penetration and overmatch, and its accuracy is pretty bad. HE spammer like the KGV? It do feel lacking in that regard, with a weaker HE DPM with weaker fire chance for no real other advantage than the KGV, a tier lower. Sure it got great concealment and a good heal, but it is one of the few ships that I feel carrying is out of limit with. Am I wrong? Is it really the worst tier 8 bb?

HE, concealment, and good heal—that's what I like with the Monarch. On the other hand, I am frustrated with her firing angles, accuracy, and poor gun range. 

5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

At launch she had a very hard to punish Citadel, so at least she had "defense" going for her, but even then, nobody liked her.

Would be nice to have her citadel lowered back again although WG might find it necessary to nerf her heal, which then would not align with the line's trademark floating dry dock capability.

2 hours ago, Umikami said:

Crap range on the main battery, and when you do hit something it's for next to nothing damage.

Yes, her range is really poor. 

6 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

The Monarch is, at its core, a worst KGV one tier higher.

She has her own strengths and weaknesses... Monarch can be frustrating at times, although she can also be fun setting ships on fire.

 

 

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Monarch isn't some insane ship, but not a complete PoS either. The AP pen is poor, but not on a level with KGV. HE isn't insane, but still better than anything else on the tier. As a result, you have AP that at least does the job of T8 BB AP and HE that you can fall back on when enemies angle and not be embarrassed by it. Apart from that, the ship has best T8 BB concealment, a very good repair party and an insane 25s reload for a 9 gun BB.

As the gun firing angles are poor, but belt is good, top tier, you get away with a few things that bottom tier will get you absolutely killed and you can be a bit more aggressive. In general though, I found the best way is to just stay mid-range, avoid being the target of focus fire, disengage with your concealment if you have to, but when not being focused, just throw AP salvos at broadsides. 1.8 sigma isn't great, but when you have 25s reload, you really just throw enough at the wall and some of it will stick. Use HE when you have to fight angled BB or CA. Monarch in a bow-in contest should beat other T8 BB and the high HE damage makes it far less of a struggle against the likes of Hipper or Baltimore than it is for Richelieu or Bismarck.

 

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I had a 77% winrate over 44 games with it.  I thought it was pretty good.  your strength is that you can damage everything with HE spam, therefore you actually make a bigger impact when uptiered.   Fast reload means it is easier for you to catch people off balance and punish broadsides especially cruisers.

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On 11/15/2020 at 9:12 PM, Umikami said:

CANNOT be worse than Monarch, because while it sees the exact same ships in a match, it's a tier higher and at least has more hit points.

You’d be surprised, she gives up a lot for that HP. Those angles are so bad you will be missing a turret unless you show broadside and that citadel is around twice the height of Monarch’s. You require reload mod to be able to do more DPM than Monarch. Several micro nerfs compared to Monarch like worse stealth, handling, and easier to hit. Then there are issues with being a tier higher such as being forced at greater ranges more often thus have less accuracy and won’t ever see t6 ships but has to dance with t10s far more often.

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Hey

Monarch was originally built as a very stealthy BB before Wargaming did the initial concealment Nerf in which it lost 10% of it's concealment off the top.  And in those days she was better and gave you interesting options to push in, but now it's just another average BB that can still do ok when played right, but power creep has relegated it to port queen for most.  Not bad, but not great either.  You can't exploit it's concealment that it once had.

 

Pete

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