Belfast 1943 (New, Tier 8 variant) appears imminent (ETA 6 Nov 2020: Now available).

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Seen two authorized release reviews on her already.

Carbine Carlito (he has a giveaway running for her):

 

An Iolair Ghorm:

 

As always, best to sit on it for at least 24 hours and make sure there have been no significant last minute changes.

A REMINDER THAT THIS IS NOT THE HIGHLY DESIRABLE AND UTTERLY BANNED TIER 7 VERSION HITHERTO PRESENT IN THE GAME. IT IS A SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT SHIP WITH DIFFERENT HANDLING CHARACTERISTICS.

TIER 7 BELFAST IS STILL UNAVAILABLE EXCEPT FOR VERY RARE SUPERCONTAINER AND CHRISTMAS CRATE DROPS.

[slokill_1]

Well if it's got the ridiculous firing in smoke penalty that Anchorage has you can count me out.  Anchorage should have been a front line fighter but that penalty ruined it.  

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Fitting Tool even has Belfast'43 in the regular Premium Ship section and not Test Ships.

Here's the old Tier VII Winfast for the sake of comparison.

13 minutes ago, slokill_1 said:

Well if it's got the ridiculous firing in smoke penalty that Anchorage has you can count me out.  Anchorage should have been a front line fighter but that penalty ruined it.  

That would not be a thing for Belfast'43 / Winfast because they're CLs.  Almost all CLs don't have that gargantuan smoke gunfire bloom penalty... That's really a CA thing.

Belfast'43 has 5.28km gun bloom in smoke, which is typical for CLs.

 

CA Baltimore is 7.18km if she can get someone to drop smoke for her.

CA London is 6.79km and a bunch of other CAs are worse than that.

 

The only CL off the top of my head with really bad gun bloom in smoke is Tier VIII Premium Mainz.  Hers is 8.41km, like a CA.  Tier VI Nurnberg is 6.13km, V Konigsberg is 5.99km, and Tier VII Premium Munchen is 4.89km.  They are all German 150mm armed CLs, but Mainz has CA levels of smoke gun bloom.

[Akeno017]

No.

Theres nothing this game needs less.
Smoking HE spammers like Belfast.

[slokill_1]

22 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That would not be a thing for Belfast'43 / Winfast because they're CLs.  Almost all CLs don't have that gargantuan smoke gunfire bloom penalty... That's really a CA thing.

Ah!  Yea 'cause my Leander and Fiji are about 5.5 km or so, and I think Edinburgh isn't much worse.  I think I'm just so use to those ships that Anchorage really took me aback.

[Blorgh2017]

36 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Fitting Tool even has Belfast'43 in the regular Premium Ship section and not Test Ships.

Here's the old Tier VII Winfast for the sake of comparison.

 

Looking at the ship comparison on the Fitting Tool site...

Funny how the new Belfast loses to the old Belfast, in terms of DPM, since the new one has slower reload... then again, I guess this is how WeeGee decided to balans her out, lol. 

The new Belfast does have better damage-per-HE-shell and HE-penetration. I donno how much those matter to make up for the lower DPM though. Plus, the juicy fishes... lel. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

13 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Looking at the ship comparison on the Fitting Tool site...

Funny how the new Belfast loses to the old Belfast, in terms of DPM, since the new one has slower reload... then again, I guess this is how WeeGee decided to balans her out, lol. 

The new Belfast does have better damage-per-HE-shell and HE-penetration. I donno how much those matter to make up for the lower DPM though. Plus, the juicy fishes... lel. 

Well, Tier VII Belfast was widely deemed OP and got yanked from the shop years ago.  Both are still Stealthy + Smoke + HE capable + Radar + Hydro oriented RNCLs.  Belfast'43 has torpedoes, Winfast in Tier VII doesn't.

 

Belfast in Tier VII after all these years, still breaks Tier VII Ranked.  The IFHE / Armor update hurt her HE, sure, but IMO Belfast's real nastiness in Tier VII was elsewhere.  It wasn't damage dealing that made her OP... It was how she ravaged Destroyers in PVP, and that has impact in a game.

 

But we'll see how it goes.  Maybe WG sneaked in some last minute sh*t.

[mofton]

I'm really not a fan of this 'restoration'.

1. WG are milking the heck out of the Edinburgh hull, the original Edinburgh is in fact modeled on Belfast's historic configuration (perhaps reflecting the 'tree ship is the class') but they've now milked it for Edinburgh, Belfast, Belfast '43 and the future Plymouth with some modifications.
2. The ship is not actually new or interesting, Belfast came out with the same history 4+ years ago, you could move on and do something new like Sheffield or Dido but I guess that would be hard
3. This ship looks pretty damn awful, poor damage output, weak overall consumables compared to firepower - what do you do post-smoke with a 10s reload and 9% fire chance seeing T10's? Worse fires/min than T7 Belfast
4. This ship retains the smoke+radar nonsense which was deeply unpleasant, lacking counterplay or engagement, it's not a reasonable re-addition to circulation

[HazeGrayUnderway]

3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

 

I watched this video and I wasn't too impressed by it.  This is not a simple Tier VIII version of Tier VII Winfast.  Nowhere near as good, but then again, Winfast breaks Tier VII.

Slow reload at 10.5 seconds for her 152mm x12 main battery.  CA Baltimore with 203mm x9 guns reloads at 10 seconds.

RNDD Smoke for a CL;  This is a huge difference from old Winfast.  The usefulness is made worse by the slow reload of these guns;  You have a 10.5 seconds reload and your smoke only lasts 40 seconds

Not many Smoke charges (4) considering how short her smoke lasts

No Repair Party like same tier, tech tree Edinburgh

 

I'm sure a great player will make it look good, but I see this being an unforgiving Premium CL.  You better have your next several moves thought out in advance, including Plan B, because if you're caught out without your smoke you're getting pulverized.  RNCLs, including the Edinburgh hull, don't like getting hit.

I'd rate Bayard and Mainz much higher than this ship as a Premium Tier VIII CL.

 

She doesn't look impressive and I'd say Edinburgh is better.  For the players that missed out on the OP Goodness of Tier VII Winfast, be warned, Belfast'43 isn't a Tier VIII re-issue of Winfast.

[AlcatrazNC]

While we don't need another OP Belfast, I think WG went a bit overboard with all the nerf she receive just to avoid getting another stupid Belfast.

 

Belfast 43 has 10.5 sec reload on those 152mm. You have worst DPM than an Edinburgh (Edin DPM isn't even considered good for T8 to begin with). She's squishy and has no heal, ok sure why not but trading all of that just for the sake of using UK DD smoke + radar + 8.9km concealment when fully built isn't going to make the ship interesting enough for me to buy it/recommend her.

 

Well at least she's balanced I suppose.

[Cit_the_bed]

You can never make a copy of something that is worse than the original.

If Belfast is a Ferrari, then the Belfast 1943 is a kit car conversion for a Volkswagen beetle to make it l look like a Ferrari. 

[Avalon304]

I wish the 43 had access to a heal (normal or otherwise) in place of one of her consumables (or in place of her torpedoes).

[Wye_So_Serious]

5 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

Theres nothing this game needs less.
Smoking HE spammers like Belfast.

Nothing?! I would classify CVs and hybrids as being less needed before a dirty smoke spammer.

[HonniSoitQuiMalYPense]

8 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

No.

Theres nothing this game needs less.
Smoking HE spammers like Belfast.

with a 10.5 second reload (2.5 seconds slower than Edinburgh), she won't be spamming anything at anyone.

• Furthermore, Edin has short fuze AP and UK CL preferential penetration angles, 8 second reload.
• Belfast 43 has neither, its AP is standard with a 10.5 second reload.
• Edin has 10 km torpedos, B43 has 8 km torpedos
• Edin has repair party, B43 has no repair party
• Belfast 43's AA is..inferior to Edin's, and to Belfast@t7 

So slow reload prevents HE spam, bad AP means poor versus bb superstructures and other cruisers. Recent changes to IFHE means it is no longer an effective spec at tier 8 on 152 mm guns (unlike at tier 7 where it can still be helpful) please ignore that last statement!

It is not all bad, after all if you pay 40 $ you expect to get something for your money, right?

• Belfast gets 38400 HP to Edinburgh's 36400
• Belfast 43 gets a 680 turning radius compared to Edin's 780 turning radius.
• 20 sec Radar with 10.5 sec main batt reload, means you can shoot TWO salvos, before your radar runs out of juice.

My advice, buy a perma camo for Edinburgh (2000 doublons) if you don't already have one. Wait for WG to make a bloody effort, and offer something more original at tier 8 as a British light cruiser (there is no shortage of possible candidates).

WG have been milking the Belfast plans so hard the poor cow is getting very sore and pissed. (Bt7, Edin, B43, Plymouth)

[Avalon304]

So thinking about this ship would it work ok for a UK DD captain trainer?

[Navalpride33]

Under normal conditions (pre- 0.8.0 game patch series). I would advocate for this ship.

Because of power creep beneficiaries 

• CV
• BB

I strongly vote against this ship in the current game patch...

On the other hand, if you love the Belfast and think you can make it work at high tiers.... Get her, however... As of this post, you've been warned as to what you're getting your self into...

GL/HF

[HonniSoitQuiMalYPense]

6 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

So thinking about this ship would it work ok for a UK DD captain trainer?

well it would mean wasting at least 2 points, perhaps 5/6 points. So it would be no more helpful than Vanguard, or Cheshire as a dd captain trainer (nonsensical). If you need a UK dd captain trainer, Cossack is the most appropriate.

Think of common dd skills, last stand, preventative maintenance, survivability expert, (just to mention a few)/

Wait to see what the proposed Captain Skill rework brings, for a definitive answer to your question.

[Avalon304]

Just now, hateboat said:

well it would mean wasting at least 2 points, perhaps 5/6 points. So it would be no more helpful than Vanguard, or Cheshire as a dd captain trainer (nonsensical). If you need a UK dd captain trainer, Cossack is the most appropriate.

Think of common dd skills, last stand, preventative maintenance, survivability expert, (just to mention a few)/

Wait to see what the proposed Captain Skill rework brings, for a definitive answer to your question.

 

Im looking for the best cross over between this ship and one of the lines. The choices for ships that have 2 shell types are BBs, DDs and CAs. Since BBs generally take full survivability, Im left with CA or DDs as the two types that might closest resemble this build.. Id prefer not to have a dedicated captain for just this ship.

 

When the rework comes the question is completely moot because every captain will be able to train for every class of ship. (Meaning anyone of my captains could be given a HE spam CL build), but right now we dont know when the rework is coming, so it really doesnt matter at the current moment.

[Nevermore135]

42 minutes ago, hateboat said:

Recent changes to IFHE means it is no longer an effective spec at tier 8 on 152 mm guns (unlike at tier 7 where it can still be helpful)

This makes no sense.

IFHE bumps Belfast’43’s HE pen from 30mm to 37mm, allowing her to pen all BB extremities in her MM spread.  It is arguable if this is worth the fire chance penalty, but tier VIII CLs are in a much better spot than tier VIIs. Tier VII CLs get 25mm pen stock and 31mm with IFHE, and thus can still only pen tier VI and VII battleships (tier V can be penned without IFHE).

The IFHE rework hit tier VI-VII CLs really hard because they did not get enhanced penetration to offset the changes to the skill. Currently, I’m split on running IFHE on my tier VIII CLs (it’s much more attractive for IX and Xs), but none of my tier VIIs have run the skill since the rework.

[HonniSoitQuiMalYPense]

Just now, Avalon304 said:

 

Im looking for the best cross over between this ship and one of the lines. The choices for ships that have 2 shell types are BBs, DDs and CAs. Since BBs generally take full survivability, Im left with CA or DDs as the two types that might closest resemble this build.. Id prefer not to have a dedicated captain for just this ship.

 

When the rework comes the question is completely moot because every captain will be able to train for every class of ship. (Meaning anyone of my captains could be given a HE spam CL build), but right now we dont know when the rework is coming, so it really doesnt matter at the current moment.

As you say, if you are prepared to wait for the Captain rework, it probably won't matter what premiums you play. On the other hand, if you want a trainer, not so much for your captain but for youself, then Cossack would still be the best option (it is also the best british premium tier 8, currently available.)

[HonniSoitQuiMalYPense]

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

This makes no sense.

IFHE bumps Belfast’43’s HE pen from 30mm to 37mm, allowing her to pen all BB extremities in her MM spread.  It is arguable if this is worth the fire chance penalty, but tier VIII CLs are in a much better spot than tier VIIs. Tier VII CLs get 25mm pen stock and 31mm with IFHE, and thus can still only pen tier VI and VII battleships (tier V can be penned without IFHE).

(..)

you are correct, 

I apologize, I will update my post. 

According to the above, IFHE is still effective on tier 7 and 8 152 mm guns.

[Righteous_Noob]

Also has torps with 8km range.......the 43' is going to be a major player at caps. A good CL driver is going to have a field day in the 43'  radar / smoke / torps / 8.9km concealment stealth build.    Ouch.....

[Avalon304]

52 minutes ago, hateboat said:

As you say, if you are prepared to wait for the Captain rework, it probably won't matter what premiums you play. On the other hand, if you want a trainer, not so much for your captain but for youself, then Cossack would still be the best option (it is also the best british premium tier 8, currently available.)

So lets assume that I asked the question because waiting a month (at minimum) for the Captain Skill rework to show up is not something I want to do.

 

Lets also assume, that since Im asking this in a topic about Belfast '43 I want Belfast '43 and not a completely different premium ship. (Im sure Cossack is an ok ship, but Im not interested in it). We'll try again, with a slightly different question:

 

In order to avoid having a dedicated Captain for Belfast '43, what would the best crossover be UK DDs or UK CAs?

[shadowsrmine]

7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I watched this video and I wasn't too impressed by it.  This is not a simple Tier VIII version of Tier VII Winfast.  Nowhere near as good, but then again, Winfast breaks Tier VII.

Slow reload at 10.5 seconds for her 152mm x12 main battery.  CA Baltimore with 203mm x9 guns reloads at 10 seconds.

RNDD Smoke for a CL;  This is a huge difference from old Winfast.  The usefulness is made worse by the slow reload of these guns;  You have a 10.5 seconds reload and your smoke only lasts 40 seconds

Not many Smoke charges (4) considering how short her smoke lasts

No Repair Party like same tier, tech tree Edinburgh

 

I'm sure a great player will make it look good, but I see this being an unforgiving Premium CL.  You better have your next several moves thought out in advance, including Plan B, because if you're caught out without your smoke you're getting pulverized.  RNCLs, including the Edinburgh hull, don't like getting hit.

I'd rate Bayard and Mainz much higher than this ship as a Premium Tier VIII CL.

 

She doesn't look impressive and I'd say Edinburgh is better.  For the players that missed out on the OP Goodness of Tier VII Winfast, be warned, Belfast'43 isn't a Tier VIII re-issue of Winfast.

Exactly and yet we'll see the same old crowd screaming Too Strong and OP  if it's so OP  get it and play it,As for me NTY it's not good enuff to waste my money or time with I've got better ships and will play those instead

[shadowsrmine]

2 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

So lets assume that I asked the question because waiting a month (at minimum) for the Captain Skill rework to show up is not something I want to do.

 

Lets also assume, that since Im asking this in a topic about Belfast '43 I want Belfast '43 and not a completely different premium ship. (Im sure Cossack is an ok ship, but Im not interested in it). We'll try again, with a slightly different question:

 

In order to avoid having a dedicated Captain for Belfast '43, what would the best crossover be UK DDs or UK CAs?

Use Edinburghs commander?After all what with the new IFHE nerf coming and in addition according to Iolair Ghorm her AP isn't all that great nor is her fire chance,So to all intents and purposes she's a hide n ambush then Run Run Run Boat!