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Hapa_Fodder

ST, changes to attack aircraft

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The change to the shape of attack aircraft crosshair in Update 0.9.7 gave destroyers a possibility to stick to a common tactic to avoid rocket attacks. During the test, ships — especially destroyers — will have more time to react and it will be easier for them to lower or completly evade damage from rockets with the correct maneuver, and changes to the crosshair will make starting an attack run easier for aircraft carriers. 

Which crosshair is being discussed  ?    Update 09.7 was the new Germain line     We have 2 completely different attack aircraft crosshairs to deal with.   So will we have an universal one which is the same for both ? 

Also I expect there will be a whole lot grief coming from the hardline CV haters about this making an rocket attack run easier for CVs  :Smile_facepalm:

 

 

Edited by Noworriesderpy1
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I thought the whole point of a universal reticle from attack aircraft was to give destroyers a chance at dodging, but now we are trying to remove that? In reality the attack animation time is not my largest concern, the fact that the crosshair maintains accuracy while maneuvering is going to be the issue with all of these changes. 

One question with the new markers, does this mean carriers and other ships will know now exactly where each individual rocket will land or is it more of a general location?  

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20 minutes ago, _DDaddy said:

One question with the new markers, does this mean carriers and other ships will know now exactly where each individual rocket will land or is it more of a general location?

Follow up to this good question...will we know where the rockets will land BEFORE we fire?

Because showing us after firing is pointless...and showing before firing is a HUGE buff to unicum CV captains.

As for the change idea itself...

It wont help DDs.

The time for rockets to land gives insufficient time for DD maneuvering to have a significant effect.

Why not just reduce rocket damage?

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Why not just remove them completely, honestly the carrier system was borked by the "rework"  (read as FUBAR), they need to give us the old control system back anyways. The current control setup just doesn't work for the gameplay style, it removes 75% of the carriers capability to even contribute to the match past tier 5-6. If anything the number of people using carriers has dropped over the last year and I'm pretty sure that was not the intent of the "rework" anyways. I mean yes the total number of players has increased, however the usage of carriers has DECREASED both in clan and random matches.

 

EDIT:

just because you don't like it don't mean it ain't true.

Edited by hammerfall314
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Remove the second bulleted fix and it will all be good. Rockets should never get their 0.8.0 maneuverability and reticle tightening during attacks back.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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The post seems strange to me, maybe I'm just not reading it right. It increases the speed of rockets but increases the destroys chance of dodging? From a visual learner though

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You could remove quite a bit of the CV hate if you didn't give every squadron launched three bites at the apple.  Launch, drop your payload, return, repeat.

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8 minutes ago, Viper069 said:

You could remove quite a bit of the CV hate if you didn't give every squadron launched three bites at the apple.  Launch, drop your payload, return, repeat.

Makes sense to me, at this point thats one of my biggest complaints barring the "fighter" issue. Rolls in, watches 4 out of 16 aircraft maneuver for drop, cry's inside watching the rest get smacked out of the sky because they don't even try to avoid AA fire, then try's to save the 3 aircraft that survived only to watch them die. That is NOT a sustainable loss/gain ratio.

Edited by hammerfall314
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I'm not really sure where they're going with this particular set of changes. It seems like they want to provide more information to the DD player so rockets can be dodged, slowing down the flight time of the rockets to make this possible. But I don't know that 3x of the current rocket flight time (like half a second) is enough to make that work. Probably gets tweaked if the concept makes it past ST.

2 hours ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Which crosshair is being discussed  ?    Update 09.7 was the new Germain line     We have 2 completely different attack aircraft crosshairs to deal with.   So will we have an universal one which is the same for both ?

It refers to the change in 0.9.7 that did this to the rocket reticles:

xrFRFNo.jpeg

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Tell you the truth I really don't care about your advertising of testing that more than likely won't make it to the game.  And if it does it won't be anything like what you're advertising now anyways.

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This game is based on spotting. And the most OP part of CV is its ability to Spot ships, not its ability to make damages.

 

Nerf the ability of CV to make damage would change anything. It just  give CV player another reason to focus on farm damage from BB.

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On 11/5/2020 at 9:16 AM, Hapa_Fodder said:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/93

Please leave feedback below.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

Okay, Hapa, I apologize in advance for the tone this is going to take and if you need me to tone down my language further than I already am I will but I'm seething right now. 

And the reason is simple - I'm tired of your damn dev team constantly trying to work around issues that need to be dealt with head on and fix around things instead of actually damn well fixing them. 

"

  • The length of attack animation is increased by 2.5 - 3 times: rockets are launched with a delay after the left mouse button is pressed;
  • The speed at which crosshair is reducing is increased, and the penalty to reduction for maneuvering is lowered.
  • Markers showing the exact spot which each rocket will hit are added. This markers are shown not only for the aircraft carrier player, but also to the ships which are being attacked.

The change to the shape of attack aircraft crosshair in Update 0.9.7 gave destroyers a possibility to stick to a common tactic to avoid rocket attacks. During the test, ships — especially destroyers — will have more time to react and it will be easier for them to lower or completly evade damage from rockets with the correct maneuver, and changes to the crosshair will make starting an attack run easier for aircraft carriers. "

Yet again, were going to have to relearn and adjust to freaking changes in how they aim and work. But overall this seems to be another round of 'maybe if we muck with aiming we can lower the skill gap on rockets and make it DD's can dodge and not get nuked". The literal damn definition of insanity because this is the 3rd or 4th time you've tried it just on rockets - that's not even counting torpedoes and bombs under the rework or RTS. 

We don't need to make the start of the run easier Hapa - we need to not have it that other ships have to spot the DD, or we have to stumble over it than try and line up an attack blind because to set up an attack run we have to fly back out of spotting range to properly start the attack. Sure, I can do that, I can memorize course and speed and take a guess if they may have tried changing angle during that temporary blindness but others can't. And the delay just helps no one. The mobility needed to come back, but that's more to do with attacking CA/L and BB that have flak batteries that require actual dodging, maybe some of the lower skill CV players. 

Forgoing how utterly stupid showing where the rockets will land is for a moment - it's not going to do that much more to help a DD dodge but then again - dodging isn't the issue, CV's scoring hits isn't is the issue - it's what those hits do that's an issue. HVAR/FFAR/RP-3 rocket damage is too high given how many are fired and can hit - the alpha needs to be cut by around 50%, maybe more. And the module survivability has always been an issue for DD's but with rocket attack planes and the ability to circle around 2, 3, 4 times it is by far worse than ever and needs to be dealt with, it is far too easy to disable a DD completely or leave it at 50% functionality with the right skills on the DD captains part - which is of little help when I have a couple planes left, may not destroy it - so I just spot it for my team to wreck some because it's AA can't really do jack as I spot it for the team.

Daring, Midway, Shimakaz, Hakuryu, Grozovoi, Audacious, Harugumo, Montana, Smolensk, Yamato, Salem, GK, Yoshino, Moskva, Minotaur - these are the tier 10's I have from going through lines and coal/FXP, not even getting in to 9's that brings in even more lines of the various types. I'm not some CV fanatic, I'm not a member of the 'DD Mafia', a 'BB Baby' or a 'Cruiser Conquistador' or whatever name they have for cruiser players I don't know, no agenda to sabotage one or the other because I play them both, I play everything. All your doing is adding one more thing to need to look at on the water as a DD - and I'm gonna bet you people make it a hard to discern colour for me anyway just like the TT launcher is not always easy for me to see, on top of I already know the rockets will land around me if I don't maneuver right - your not really telling me anything new and adding another hud element.  Your not doing anything to solve the various issues of when I do take a hit for whatever reason. And on the other side - your finally giving mobility back but making me have to readjust and learn rockets yet again. Which doesn't do anything but annoy me in a best case scenario, and doesn't deal with the fact I have to stumble over any not dumb enough to leave AA on to help me spot them sooner and that they will blink some because of the range required and circling back to get a run properly set up. 

 

  • Make CV spotting minimap only
  • reset the spotting ranges by air to the older levels, or do so for BB/CA/L only and only increase the DD's by some amount so it's more than 'almost have to proxy spot anyway'
  • Give more DD's AA that is worth a damn (not necessarily the level of Friesland or Harugumo that arguably need slight nerfs but better than the absolute negligible trash they are at the moment)
  • Make it once again that a DD with AA on gives it's position away to the CV at least (if not again mini-map spotting for the team)
  • Make the adjustments you say on aiming reticle reduction speed and maneuvering penalty and all here - it's the only thing I actually agree with in these notes
  • Cut the damage of HVAR/FFAR/RP-3's by at least 50% - high volume rockets need to have lower damage maybe if you go lower than that we can give some of the UK planes their real ordnance counts for RP-3's - though we need to have a talk about HVAR vs RP-3 anyway regarding pen and all anyway, as well s function in game and 'flavour'
  • Increase module hitpoints of at least ruder and engines by some amount or something else to reduce how easily incapacitated they are. 

You want to actually get real on fixing the mess the rework is, you really want to make it easier particularly on newer CV players to start attack runs but cut down on the way attack planes in particular can devastate a DD - that's how you do it. Fix AA, Fix damage, Fix spotting - not goofing around with the crosshair, delaying the firing, etc. But if you people aren't going to take this seriously and all your gonna do is stuff like this - then stop wasting all our time and just stop messing with CV's at all and let us just deal with what we got, instead of another change that won't do what you think it will - just like when we told you not long after 8.0 when your nerfed plane mobility and all to lessen the way we stomped on DD's - and those of us that aren't CV noobs within a day or less were once again obliterating DD's like you changed nothing - because you did change nothing because they don't usually have the AA to make us dodge you only screwed rocket attacks on heavier ships. Because I'm sure we have more to do than relearn aiming, again, and that there are better things your Dev team can be working on than junk like this.  

I'm tired of aimpoint changes, I'm tired of singular changes like the ones to Hosho that don't address the low tier AA issues, I'm tired of 'well these stats are fine so what's the problem and why do plane losses matter?' when we have spelled out the fact that in one type of MM it overly dominates while another it's near useless and the two extreme numbers create an average on paper that looks fine, of boring, even's only tech tree's along with the shockingly poor attention to history on them even when it doesn't affect gameplay like calling a German AP rocket simply 'High Explosive' to say nothing of how certain nations deliver what ordnance what way with what planes. 

If we only start from the botched live release, not counting the joke that was Beta testing this rework with how much got ignored and written off - only to have hands forced months or a year+ after the fact anyway, it's been over 21 months now with the rework - with balance still screwed as much or worse than under RTS despite 'even's only making it easier to balance' and all the rest. RTS was live for what, 40 months - halfway through the other systems life time and where are we at, a community more divided and hateful of the class than before, more problems, etc. I can't think of a single thing on the list of reasons for it where it succeeded - the class appears no more popular in numbers let alone general player reactions and feelings, the skill gap has only been made worse by changes since 8.0 not that the rework addressed that by making flak dodging a needed skill that determines a lot, they aren't better balanced, nothing. 

 

Edited by WanderingGhost
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At WG, you have fallen so low as to copy/paste ideas from "illegal" (banned) third party addons that show where each shell from a main battery salvo are expected to land? You do yourselves absolutely no favours, with this announcement.

Attempts to patch flaws in the CV Rework, such as this latest example, smack of desperation, but they knock more holes in the boat, than they repair. The Rework continues to sink.

Edited by hateboat
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1 hour ago, Edgecase said:

I'm not really sure where they're going with this particular set of changes. It seems like they want to provide more information to the DD player so rockets can be dodged, slowing down the flight time of the rockets to make this possible. But I don't know that 3x of the current rocket flight time (like half a second) is enough to make that work. Probably gets tweaked if the concept makes it past ST.

It refers to the change in 0.9.7 that did this to the rocket reticles:

xrFRFNo.jpeg

Thank you the above illustration is a very informative break down.  Being I only have 2 of the 4 and rarely play them I surely did not notice.

 

   

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If only they would replace rocket attack planes with either HE or AP dive bombers...the easy DD killing stops.

Its literally that easy.

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark
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"

  • Markers showing the exact spot which each rocket will hit are added. This markers are shown not only for the aircraft carrier player, but also to the ships which are being attacked.

At which point are those markers shown? Before firing or after firing?

If is is before firing, why bother with a reticule at all if you already have the real indicators? would the rockets remain subject to RNG? at which point is the RNG "rolled"? 

If it is after firing, why bother at all showing it? would be the flight time of rockets be increased to over 4 or 5 seconds, so dodging them becomes a real thing? if flight times remain under 2-3 seconds what's the point on showing them?

Edited by ArIskandir

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These changes are nonesense, may as well give cruisers the aiming reticle of attacking BBs and CAs while your at it.

You are allowing a single class to drown any immersion in the game: double thumbs down.

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Watch as we fling poop at the wall and see if any of it sticks. Please leave feedback for us so we can completely ignore it and do what we already decided to do anyway. Now buy a tier 8 premium.

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35 minutes ago, Doombeagle said:

Watch as we fling poop at the wall and see if any of it sticks. Please leave feedback for us so we can completely ignore it and do what we already decided to do anyway. Now buy a tier 8 premium.

 This guy gets it.

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The amount of posters in this thread that literally do not understand how this is a tremendous buff to DDs against rocket planes amuses me ....   So typical of pretty much every single CV thread on the forums.   Literally if they announced that rocket planes no longer were going to carry ordinance the same crowd would rush in with their pitchforks and torches and claim harm.  

And poor poor Tiny Tims...  the hits just keep on coming.  RIP Saipan. 

Edited by iRA6E
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18 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

The amount of posters in this thread that literally do not understand how this is a tremendous buff to DDs against rocket planes amuses me ....   So typical of pretty much every single CV thread on the forums.   Literally if they announced that rocket planes no longer were going to carry ordinance the same crowd would rush in with their pitchforks and torches and claim harm.  

And poor poor Tiny Tims...  the hits just keep on coming.  RIP Saipan. 

Actually, that wouldn't bother me at all, as long as we returned to the RTS system and got the click-control back I wouldn't be bothered at all. The old system was more comfortable as well as the closest to realistic the game got. 

Edited by hammerfall314

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9 minutes ago, hammerfall314 said:

Actually, that wouldn't bother me at all, as long as we returned to the RTS system and got the click-control back I wouldn't be bothered at all. The old system was more comfortable as well as the closest to realistic the game got. 

Meh.. I was no fan of old CV gameplay.. was it strategically accurate.. yea.   was it fun to play or fit this game very well.. no.  Not IMO.  

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3 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

Okay, Hapa, I apologize in advance for the tone this is going to take and if you need me to tone down my language further than I already am I will but I'm seething right now. 

And the reason is simple - I'm tired of your damn dev team constantly trying to work around issues that need to be dealt with head on and fix around things instead of actually damn well fixing them. 

"

 

 

Well said, I wish I had the patience to express my frustration with the broken CV mechanic as you have! +1

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