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Col_Nasty

People keep wondering why they lose so often.......

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 They didn't end up here ... no! 

They NEVER left here.. the other BB that spawned on my side almost ran me over to head there at the start too.  3 ships actually fought the fight..... you see the rest.

The DD and CA that went with me died after a great fight... I couldn't make it back.. but gave them HELL as I ran.

loss.png

Edited by Col_Nasty
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Did losing those three ships that yoloed out there and got clobbered, help the green team win?

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8 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

Does anyone actually wonder why they lose? 

Don’t have time. Already hearing “battle starts” two seconds later in the next match with “W” key fully depressed

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1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

Did losing those three ships that yoloed out there and got clobbered, help the green team win?

Hmm This is a surprise!

Just going to respond to your insult, I will not waste time in a back and forth with you. 

Didn't know you supported and endorsed lemming trains and everyone hiding in the spawn and doing nothing the entire round.

This is the MOST common complaint here at WOWS , I didn't know you supported that play style. good to know.

lemme help you out.

You MAY want to look at that screenshot and rethink your attack .  All those ships held back by a DD and a CL.

In no world did 3 ships yolo.. ( do you know what yolo means? ) interesting look at this and a major reach from someone who has so much "experience" at this game.

From the start the lemming train went to that cap and hid the entire time.

The YOLO ships actually were the only 3 ships that scored anything and we also topped the board that round.

Now if playing the game objectives now is considered a BAD thing and sitting in a cap clustered like  a bunch of frightened Anchovies hiding from a school of tuna is YOUR way of playing the game now then you do you.

I would die of boredom.

Have a nice day.

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1 hour ago, clammboy said:

I have to say @Col_Nasty I see this quite often very annoying . What can you do ?????/

Apparently nothing. When you have lifers here attacking you for NOT playing like this cluster of Sardines hiding from hungry tuna then it has gone mainstream.

It's cool to be useless potato now.

It will never be for me.

Go down fighting or don't bother hitting the BATTLE button I say.

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Failed lemming train. Once they stall out it is pretty much over.

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30 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Hmm This is a surprise!

Just going to respond to your insult, I will not waste time in a back and forth with you. 

Didn't know you supported and endorsed lemming trains and everyone hiding in the spawn and doing nothing the entire round.

This is the MOST common complaint here at WOWS , I didn't know you supported that play style. good to know.

lemme help you out.

You MAY want to look at that screenshot and rethink your attack .  All those ships held back by a DD and a CL.

In no world did 3 ships yolo.. ( do you know what yolo means? ) interesting look at this and a major reach from someone who has so much "experience" at this game.

From the start the lemming train went to that cap and hid the entire time.

The YOLO ships actually were the only 3 ships that scored anything and we also topped the board that round.

Now if playing the game objectives now is considered a BAD thing and sitting in a cap clustered like  a bunch of frightened Anchovies hiding from a school of tuna is YOUR way of playing the game now then you do you.

I would die of boredom.

Have a nice day.

I didn't insult anyone.  I asked a perfectly reasonable question about the situation that you presented to everyone. 

Did yoloing into the jaws of the red team, help the green team, to win? 

If you get bored and you want some action, you play the game for fun, you get to decide what you do.  Your thread though is about teams losing matches.  I don't personally think suddenly being down 3 ships that are dead and can't do anything further, helped the situation that you presented with the green team. 

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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

 They didn't end up here ... no! 

They NEVER left here.. the other BB that spawned on my side almost ran me over to head there at the start too.  3 ships actually fought the fight..... you see the rest.

The DD and CA that went with me died after a great fight... I couldn't make it back.. but gave them HELL as I ran.

loss.png

With no disrespect intended but I'm guessing you was in the ZAO which tells me you had no intentions of doing any type of close battle but you expected your team mates to tank while you farm? As to the group in that cap. They often push that cap as they did but for what reason they stayed long cant be answered. Going to center cap often leads to early death since most don't support anyway.  Lets be real for a moment as ask yourself. When you have stats involved with general pubs means 80%+ of the time you will never have any type of team play due to selfish game play for reason or another. Basically   all one can do is fight their own for most of the time people are more focused on being in the top 3, rather  than play for a win.

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3 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

 They didn't end up here ... no! 

They NEVER left here.. the other BB that spawned on my side almost ran me over to head there at the start too.  3 ships actually fought the fight..... you see the rest.

The DD and CA that went with me died after a great fight... I couldn't make it back.. but gave them HELL as I ran.

loss.png

Well OP I’m not sure how this was lost on so many people, perhaps tomorrow has them all fired up. Lemming trains don’t work, I’d rather die trying to defend my flank the best I can then lemming

Edited by ditka_Fatdog
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2 hours ago, motleytanker said:

With no disrespect intended but I'm guessing you was in the ZAO which tells me you had no intentions of doing any type of close battle but you expected your team mates to tank while you farm? As to the group in that cap. They often push that cap as they did but for what reason they stayed long cant be answered. Going to center cap often leads to early death since most don't support anyway.  Lets be real for a moment as ask yourself. When you have stats involved with general pubs means 80%+ of the time you will never have any type of team play due to selfish game play for reason or another. Basically   all one can do is fight their own for most of the time people are more focused on being in the top 3, rather  than play for a win.

Look at the screenshot again.  He is the dead arrow at C/D1.  I've seen plenty of bad teams lately, seen some good ones too; even had one that I thought was bad come back and win what started out looking like a losing blowout.  The losses with bad teams are just more memorable and it is human nature to find reasons things didn't go the way they had hoped; i.e. it is easier to blame the team than review one's own play for flaws.  That said, sometimes you just can't carry hard enough. 

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while its true that lemmig trains are a problem specialy when they start camping i think thats only part of the problem, The other part of the problem are the game mechanics and maps design that heavily encourage those things and punish agresive gameplay and smaller groups.      

t10 is the epitome of bad gameplay, lots of BBs with ridiculous range, accuracy and guns big enought to overmatch, HE spamming cruisers with long range accurate guns, DDs that can drop tons of torps from stealth and lets not forget CV that can demolish any ship that is not very close of other friendly ships  for AA overlap.    

Edited by pepe_trueno

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In my experience (only 2k games), the problem is often the opposite. Two or three members of a team get too aggressive, get killed or seriously damaged, and the steamroll begins. If the entire team held back early and let the reds get antsy, it could have gone the other way. Killing just a few reds early is what gives your teammates the confidence to close the range and push a flank, while the reds get shy and pull back. After the battle, people see the retreating team as being too passive, when in reality they were responding rationally to the consequences of a handful of their teammates who were too aggressive.

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11 minutes ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

In my experience (only 2k games), the problem is often the opposite. Two or three members of a team get too aggressive, get killed or seriously damaged, and the steamroll begins. If the entire team held back early and let the reds get antsy, it could have gone the other way. Killing just a few reds early is what gives your teammates the confidence to close the range and push a flank, while the reds get shy and pull back. After the battle, people see the retreating team as being too passive, when in reality they were responding rationally to the consequences of a handful of their teammates who were too aggressive.

Except it doesn't normally work that way. The team that holds back usually gets behind on points, then starts feeding itself piecemeal to the other team as players break ranks and suicide one at a time.

I rarely see a team that surrenders the initiative early come back, and usually the team that took the initiative early then takes it time and waits to be fed easy kills.

Ideally, you want both teams contesting the caps at the same time. That way, if one team gets overly aggressive, they can be made to pay for it. Controlled aggression is the key.

The only way a team holding back early works is if the other team is made to pay for taking the caps (In terms of damaged and destroyed ships). Way too often, the team holding back cannot bring the other team under fire.

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Some good discussion happening here!

Lemming trains can work, IF the team keeps pushing.  I was in a battle in my Myoko on Neighbors where I and one other ship were the only ships to head to the west.  When we met half the enemy team, I turned around to kite and slow them down; the other ship YOLOed. I told the rest of the team that they’d better push and then sold myself dearly.  The lemmings actually did push, and overwhelmed their side, then pushed into the remaining enemy.  What initially looked like a defeat turned into a victory.

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10 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

 They didn't end up here ... no! 

They NEVER left here.. the other BB that spawned on my side almost ran me over to head there at the start too.  3 ships actually fought the fight..... you see the rest.

The DD and CA that went with me died after a great fight... I couldn't make it back.. but gave them HELL as I ran.

loss.png

It looks like green team was doomed right from the get go. I don't know how many DD there was in the match or when this pic was taken but the red still has one DD(z-46) while I see no green one. That alone will stop your Yammy, Izuma and Al Lirttorio from pushing further, Conqueror had no intentions of pushing anyways. Green had a Smolensk, Zao and a t8 Amalfi(which probably complained right away about being t8 in a t10 game) against the reds radar cruisers DM, Petro, and Baltimore. Zao is a kiter, Amalfi a kiter and Smolensk is a farmer, none good for pushing/supporting caps(atleast compared to reds cruisers). 

Looks like loosing your DD stalled the green lemming train.The reds, looks like they only lost one ship, so they were lemming training also to A cap and pushed B. In that case, lemming training for your team wouldn't have been horrible if they kept moving to stay away from the red death ball.

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11 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

 They didn't end up here ... no! 

They NEVER left here.. the other BB that spawned on my side almost ran me over to head there at the start too.  3 ships actually fought the fight..... you see the rest.

The DD and CA that went with me died after a great fight... I couldn't make it back.. but gave them HELL as I ran.

loss.png

This actually looks like 2 lemming trains. Only where your side took out a cruiser, the other side lost a DD.  Their team kept pushing while your team holed up.

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In my experience 4000+ games your decision to yolo is what contributes to the loss.

     When youre outnumbered or alone or outmatched choose to play sensibly. 

     Don't while about your team when you're in your konigsberg and you yolo out there to get dev strike by a Bayern that's your fault. 

      Know when to push and when to kite.

      Admittedly this is not easy to know this the nature of the game, but I see so many players that should have the awareness to book it out of danger, including myself, but would rather die.

    When you yolo and die it hurts your team.

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9 hours ago, Burnsy said:

I didn't insult anyone.  I asked a perfectly reasonable question about the situation that you presented to everyone. 

You did actually.  You insulted the ships that died on the the green team by calling them Yoloers without any proof and quite frankly against the facts shown in the picture and you do so again:

9 hours ago, Burnsy said:

Did yoloing into the jaws of the red team, help the green team, to win? 

 

You insinuated and are now doubling down that they went full speed into the enemy.  I gotta ask were you there? Because that image shows nothing of that. It shows a cruiser dying while fleeing from A .  It shows col nasties death also kiting from A. Then the cruiser death north of A. That one is interesting and does look  overextended.   However 3 and even 2 cruisers  in a kiting position  is not a "Yolo" .  They are doing the proper thing trying to slow the enemy advance.  Especially considering the Map and the cap.  That cap from that side is a gimme to the enemy.  I personally like being put on that cap on defense because I can help make sure the enemy pays dearly for it and is slow to advance.   

Then you have 2 DDs dead at B  and one south of C.   We can't really tell which one of those 3 is the missing Red team DD. Worst case we could assume is that  the guy dying at bottom of C was red and the 2 in B are green.    Which would leave the 2 DD in B as greens  in which case they died while under the cover of the friendly guns  while trying to contest on the side of the map that was the green teams.   There is no way to simply say those guys yoloed either. 

 The blame if anything for this whole mess lays with the BB that abandoned A ( from the picture I am assuming Conq.  which would have made for an excellent ship in a fighting retreat. Also Yami , Littorio and Izumo who didn't push through the C cap going after Venezia and Monarch. 

 

 

   

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24 minutes ago, grorg said:

In my experience 4000+ games your decision to yolo is what contributes to the loss.

     When youre outnumbered or alone or outmatched choose to play sensibly. 

     Don't while about your team when you're in your konigsberg and you yolo out there to get dev strike by a Bayern that's your fault. 

      Know when to push and when to kite.

      Admittedly this is not easy to know this the nature of the game, but I see so many players that should have the awareness to book it out of danger, including myself, but would rather die.

    When you yolo and die it hurts your team.

There is absolutely nothing that shows Col_Nasty Yoloed .  His arrow is at D1 kiting.  Besides the one dead cruiser North of A there is no evidence anyone "Yoloed" . 

Edited by eviltane
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From my perspective, is the green & red team are employing a similar (and common for random) strategy.

The big difference, the ships dead in F2 & D1, versus the red team whose Venezia and Monarch were able to retreat and stay alive from the green team lemming train.  It also looks like the green team lost some DD's in the B cap because red supported theirs a bit better by putting a BB/CA in there.

When you see a lemming train, you need to retreat and stay alive.

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11 hours ago, _ENO_ said:

Does anyone actually wonder why they lose? 

This is hitting the nail on the head.  I'm firmly convinced most players don't care about why they lose as winning isn't very high on their list of priorities.

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