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Snargfargle

Why Do CV Drivers Target AA Ships?

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Once I was in a game on New Dawn, playing Isokaze, there was an Atlanta on the enemy team. Our Weser suddenly decided to attack the Atlanta. Every single plane exploded once it got within 2 kilometers of that ship. 

Why Weser? Just...just why?

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7 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The most CV-attacked ships on both teams were the best AA ships.

image.thumb.png.ee2a3c0aba0bdb98f515234a3fc08781.pngo CV Drivers 

First of all, best AA ship is relative. Mass is always a tough nut because it has good base AA AND it is one of the few BBs that specs secondaries, so the captain skills boost AA even further. I don't typically go after Mass with my planes because I know this. At least not until it has been worked over by someone else. Also, Mass is a lousy target for GZ. I believe it can take citadels from GZ's AP bombs but it is difficult. Very difficult. The ship is also pretty short and agile, and has a very good torpedo belt. It is probably the single worst BB, tier for tier, for CVs to go after. Alabama is basically the same ship but it doesn't have boosted secondaries so people don't take any of the skills that boost AA on her making her an easier target than Mass. 

I can almost guarantee that Helena did not spec AA because they almost never do. If he didn't he isn't that good an AA ship. There is no ship with unboosted AA that is a good AA ship. Without seeing video my suspicion is he was isolated and therefore was an easy target because Helena is not normally a prime CV target absent something like that. Truthfully, the ships the GZ really wanted were probably the W. Virginia, the Iron Duke that fail-divisioned into that match, and Budyonny, the Tirp and the Gneis.

Buddy is fragile, unmaneuverable and has middling AA that is almost never boosted. GZ's bombs will probably overpen it though. W.Va and ID are low tier BBs with bad AA. Tirp is a big fat high tier BB with bad AA, and gargles AP bombs into its citadel all day long. Gneis is similar but has a bit better AA, and is a smaller target. 

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I'll put torps in on an AA ship to let them know they're not absolutely immune, but I generally don't focus them unless there is a tactical requirement to do so.

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6 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Aa doesnt exist (for competent cv drivers). Also note your cv did the same but actually sank their mass.

What the difference dying trying to sink him or avoiding them all still getting your planes wrecked.  They messed up the AA somewhere.  Planes are dying way too fast.

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You're in a Mass, plus a tirptz and a Helena. I guess you guys form some kind of a push at your flank?  And by the looks of your teammate Kagero's fun time, which I assume happened at the other flank. I guess the red team was lamming train in the other flank but run into some DD trouble. 

Then this explain why the CV gives his full attention at you three. My guess of what happened is the red CV once again try to be the firefighter. With 2 top tier BB push and red did not have reliable DD (or maybe no DD at your flank) to stop the push. Once you push through, red team will be surrounded and CV himself will be in trouble. Because red team did not realize what's going to happen except CV. Red CV is trying his best efforts trying to buy time for his team to either lamming through or reposition to hold the line, which by the final score, I guess neither happened. 

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FTR.. If I haven't lost 60-70 or so planes in a match in Kaga by the end.. I probably stunk it up or was heavily up-tiered in a match with a bunch of T7 and T6 ships..   20-30 planes to sink a Massachussets.. sign me up,  I'm just getting started.  It's literally the WOWS version of a Kamikazi.      GZ not so much....    

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3 hours ago, Mahrs said:

Massachusetts must be the most dangerous ship in that match. Offensively a power house. The sooner it ends up on the bottom, the better. It’s not wrong to focus it down right off, so long as the cost is understood and mitigated. 

Are cruisers a threat to my DD? Certainly. I’ve probably been sunk just as often by BB though, honestly. BB guns hurt up close and their spread at longer ranges can actually make them harder to evade. Regardless, the single biggest factor in cruiser positioning in most matches is BB positioning. BB specialize in map control. On maps that don’t have massive hunks of terrain to hide behind it is even more pronounced. A good BB creates a “no sail” zone around itself for cruisers (and DD enter only at great peril)...the better the BB and the Captain, the bigger the zone. The squishier the cruiser, the bigger the zone.

As a cruiser Captain, the single most important thing I do is maintain appropriate distance/direction/angle to my major threats. If BB are pushing up unchecked, it greatly limits my ability to operate. My guns are minimized until they’re eventually out of the fight.

The most important factor in BB position is probably DD followed by CV. The most important factor in DD positioning is probably cruisers with radar and other DD (and CV). Sort of an elegant little system WG has here...(except the CV’)

A well positioned Massachusetts is dangerous and yes, a CV should try to take it out. But a Massachusetts has solid AA by itself.

Especially when it is with others.

Sailing a BB smart long enough will drive a CV player nuts. And few players know that.

A lot of players need to share your observations as well.

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I was the Mass. The CV never dropped fighters on me. And yes, towards the end (of the CV) it knew that I was hunting it so it was desperate. The enemy CV actually died fairly early in the game because it waited too long to flee a collapsing flank. There was a cyclone so I couldn't see any other ships so I just followed the planes back to the enemy CV. Our Tirpitz, not wanting to be alone vs a CV, followed me and we easily got the kill.

I suppose it's strange to ask why you were being focused, when you were running down and killing said CV.

I'm surprised there are that many plane kills off a Graf Zepplin.  She's such a strange hybrid ship that she doesn't have a large aerial armament.  I suppose Slot 5 flight deck and a little regen while being run down.  You must've been killing little 2 plane squadrons that couldn't touch you at the end, though.

Edited by Ahskance

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10 hours ago, Sventex said:

Cause they can.

Of course they can. Why wouldn't they be able to?

CVs (and soon subs) are there to break up the stagnant stationary gameplay that's become more widespread. Having some ships be "no fly zones" defeats that purpose.

It was ok to have them back in the RTS days, because almost everybody moved around, and not just sailing to their favorite anchorage.

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Brag post? 

I see GOOD CV players do this intentionally. It may be to make things easier later when they have less plane choice flexibility, so they send it back to Mama first.  

Even where Halland may not be the best red AA, they will smack a Halland so they dont run a squad into it unintentionally later.

Sometimes its to show the "AA ship" who really has the big epeen, and the CV invariably does if the player is top notch. 

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Pigeons gonna do what pigeons always do crap on everybody especially sense the rebork broke all the swatters

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4 hours ago, Skpstr said:

Of course they can. Why wouldn't they be able to?

CVs (and soon subs) are there to break up the stagnant stationary gameplay that's become more widespread. Having some ships be "no fly zones" defeats that purpose.

.

 You have that precisely backwards. Aircraft carriers cause gameplay to stagnate since no one can push without being spotted, and probably wrecked by airplanes.

Turning ships into anti-aircraft powerhouses would rectify that stupidity.

However, aircraft carriers are in the game to farm arbitrary damage and speed up games, not to have any particular tactical effect because the developers do not care whether players fight from spawn or brawl like drunks. They only want to ensure that games are over quickly and players are back in the queue as fast as possible.

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22 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The most CV-attacked ships on both teams were the best AA ships.

image.thumb.png.ee2a3c0aba0bdb98f515234a3fc08781.pngo CV Drivers 

Lolz. Well because they can and because WeeGee encourage let them??

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

Are there really any "AA ships" nowadays?

Yeah. Virtually nobody take DFAA over hydro thanks to Jingles and current realities.

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Yesterday or 2 days ago, I played a bunch of Lexington games. One game had a Oland (which according to WG is supposed to be an AA DD) spawning mid. I kept focusing him for like 3 min while trying to force him into turning into my friendly DD. He got deleted without having the chance to do something. What did he do ? Nothing, he barely got close to B. Next game this was a Halland sailing around and he first detroyed my 6 rockets planes but after knowing where he was, I decided to to use HEDB and after 3 min he died to my team and my planes.

 

What was the common factor in both game ? I lost some planes to these ship, but these ship lost their life. What is loosing 3-6 planes to kill a DD ?  Not only can I cycle planes and target other people but these planes barely takes a minute to regen (at least for Lexington's plane). By the time I do my bombing run I already have regained my lost planes. 

 

shot-20_10.31_12_37.32-0648.thumb.jpg.da02db11d10f7854418423a64c6847c1.jpg

shot-20_10.31_12_37.35-0116.thumb.jpg.906ec6dfafd083a32bdaccd6e1aa9117.jpg

 

The pictures above is a good example. I didn't really focused the Kiev or the Albemarle even tho they both have the most planes shot down but Albemale aside, 10 planes was enough to kill a Kiev (and again I was really focusing him).I'm sure getting bonked for 8k HEDB without being able to do something is fun. And the fun part is, despite loosing 53 planes (the fighter planes doesn't really count) I was still able to launch full squadron.

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9 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 You have that precisely backwards. Aircraft carriers cause gameplay to stagnate since no one can push without being spotted, and probably wrecked by airplanes.

If nobody's pushing, but they're moving around and shooting at each other, that's not really stagnant. This has nothing to do with where ships move to, but the fact that they aren't moving in the first place. Ships have always been afraid to push, not moving at all is a somewhat recent development, and inadvertantly advertised in various streams and videos as good gameplay.

Besides, if CVs cause that, why is their presence not required to make it happen?

Also, it's not like these ships are hiding, they're sitting still and firing. So they're already spotted before the planes get there. Being spotted is why the CV is coming after them in the first place. The only targets CVs really spot for themselves are DDs.

And regardless of the interaction, or ship types involved, sitting still means you take more damage. As El2azer says, you basically have to depend on the CV player being bad. By sitting still, you guarantee he won't be bad enough.

If you sit still on a regular basis with CVs in the game, you cannot claim that you have "adapted".

 

Edited by Skpstr

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Hubris. So so many of the great AA ships of the past (Des Moines being the best example) are now kinda sad, and only the truly most potato of players really suffers at the hands of 'good' AA. Don't get me wrong ... their AA is better than the average, but that's like saying a revolver is better than a slingshot when shooting at a tank.

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