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Snargfargle

Why Do CV Drivers Target AA Ships?

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I assume it may be done under the belief that if you get rid of the problem early, you won't have to work around it later. 

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8 minutes ago, Yoshiblue said:

I assume it may be done under the belief that if you get rid of the problem early, you won't have to work around it later. 

The other team's CV attacked the Helena for the first few minutes of the match and did some damage until the Helena noticed that I was downing all of the planes that drifted over me and decided to come over for some AA support. Then the Tirpitz got attacked a couple of times and came over too. Between the three of us we then soaked up all the planes without anyone getting hit again, though we did have to dodge the occasional torpedo. The funniest thing was about then a cyclone came through and since we couldn't see anything else we just followed the planes back to the CV and sank it.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

The most CV-attacked ships on both teams were the best AA ships.

image.thumb.png.ee2a3c0aba0bdb98f515234a3fc08781.pngo CV Drivers 

Aa doesnt exist (for competent cv drivers). Also note your cv did the same but actually sank their mass.

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The most CV-attacked ships on both teams were the best AA ships.

image.thumb.png.ee2a3c0aba0bdb98f515234a3fc08781.pngo CV Drivers 

Sometimes the things that have to be dealt with are under an AA umbrella, so you lose planes to the AA umbrella if you want to win.

That being said, there's only one kill on a CV (which is the Kaga on the green team).  The 43 on the Mass is most likely padded with fighters, as the Graf Zeppelin's plane reserves are rather poor.  Or perhaps the Mass had kill pressure on the GZ, so it threw planes into the blender trying to save itself.  Both are possible.

Edited by Ahskance
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In all honesty, at start of match, how many of you honestly can say you use HE and fire on the AA cruiser first?

 

Because for some CV drivers, myself included, the perception generally is that no one does. That the HE is used on a high HP ship like a BB.

But if you look at it from a tactical point of view, what is the two biggest threats to a DD? The radar AA cruiser and the CV.

But the CV is hard to mitigate initially unless you help yours first right?

But how many players help theirs?

If that is ever answered honestly with some serious discussion without any negativity, then maybe we can all be mature adults about the CV issues.

But until then, the CV player will look at the situation and assess whether anyone is attacking the cruiser, then decide if attacking it will benefit the team in the long run thus saving the team DDs, or by keeping those radars in check so they don't burn down BBs.

Because somebody has to do it. And it's a dirty job. A filthy, dirty, disgusting, Job.

Players can criticize it, but it is a necessity if you want that Win.

A seasoned CV player does know what to do in those situations and they will drop a cruiser without even a thought. It is the same ignorance that BB players had back in RTS, that has infected AA cruisers that lead them to believe they were invincible. But it is hardly the case.

Yes, you had quite the team effort there and that was the difference in the match.

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Because "AA ships" as a concept no longer exist, thus everything becomes a target.

What matters is CV player skill which determines how efficiently a CV player is capable of pursuing said targets.

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Massachusetts must be the most dangerous ship in that match. Offensively a power house. The sooner it ends up on the bottom, the better. It’s not wrong to focus it down right off, so long as the cost is understood and mitigated. 

Are cruisers a threat to my DD? Certainly. I’ve probably been sunk just as often by BB though, honestly. BB guns hurt up close and their spread at longer ranges can actually make them harder to evade. Regardless, the single biggest factor in cruiser positioning in most matches is BB positioning. BB specialize in map control. On maps that don’t have massive hunks of terrain to hide behind it is even more pronounced. A good BB creates a “no sail” zone around itself for cruisers (and DD enter only at great peril)...the better the BB and the Captain, the bigger the zone. The squishier the cruiser, the bigger the zone.

As a cruiser Captain, the single most important thing I do is maintain appropriate distance/direction/angle to my major threats. If BB are pushing up unchecked, it greatly limits my ability to operate. My guns are minimized until they’re eventually out of the fight.

The most important factor in BB position is probably DD followed by CV. The most important factor in DD positioning is probably cruisers with radar and other DD (and CV). Sort of an elegant little system WG has here...(except the CV’)

Edited by Mahrs

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This is an obvious brag framed by a question - but the answer to why does X do Y is always that there are bad players, obviously. 

Edited by why_u_heff_to_be_mad

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For all we know, perhaps the Zep had encountered one or more of those players in a previous match and wanted to teach them a lesson,  take them out. Or perhaps the Zep was after ships belonging to a rival or hated clan? Or perhaps they were an individual known to them so they were trying to take them out.  

I don't believe a Zep can produce that many aircraft in a match. She can be deplaned in a few minutes if played badly. 

And hey, it could have been a coop match too. :cap_haloween:

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

In all honesty, at start of match, how many of you honestly can say you use HE and fire on the AA cruiser first?

 

Because for some CV drivers, myself included, the perception generally is that no one does. That the HE is used on a high HP ship like a BB.

But if you look at it from a tactical point of view, what is the two biggest threats to a DD? The radar AA cruiser and the CV.

But the CV is hard to mitigate initially unless you help yours first right?

But how many players help theirs?

If that is ever answered honestly with some serious discussion without any negativity, then maybe we can all be mature adults about the CV issues.

But until then, the CV player will look at the situation and assess whether anyone is attacking the cruiser, then decide if attacking it will benefit the team in the long run thus saving the team DDs, or by keeping those radars in check so they don't burn down BBs.

Because somebody has to do it. And it's a dirty job. A filthy, dirty, disgusting, Job.

Players can criticize it, but it is a necessity if you want that Win.

A seasoned CV player does know what to do in those situations and they will drop a cruiser without even a thought. It is the same ignorance that BB players had back in RTS, that has infected AA cruisers that lead them to believe they were invincible. But it is hardly the case.

Yes, you had quite the team effort there and that was the difference in the match.

You’re right. No one shoots HE at a cruiser with the intent of taking out its AA.  They shoot at it with the intent of taking out the ship, thus eliminating the AA in the process.

Also, given how one sided CVs are vs. everything else, I don’t really feel like my CV needs the help.  Either he’s good, and will do just fine anyway, or he’s crap and won’t even notice the help I’ve provided.

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1 hour ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

This is an obvious brag framed by a question - but the answer to why does X do Y is always that there are bad players, obviously. 

Not necessarily.

If the Mass has gotta go, it's gotta go.

Then again, if the Mass has gotta go because it's holding off 5 players, that's indirectly caused by bad players lol.

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3 minutes ago, SeaGladius said:

You’re right. No one shoots HE at a cruiser with the intent of taking out its AA.  They shoot at it with the intent of taking out the ship, thus eliminating the AA in the process.

Also, given how one sided CVs are vs. everything else, I don’t really feel like my CV needs the help.  Either he’s good, and will do just fine anyway, or he’s crap and won’t even notice the help I’ve provided.

True, often a CV player doesn't see the help they are getting. It's not always convenient for a player to tell the CV " I am roasting the AA cruiser CV, have at him."

Sometimes, a CV player doesn't capitalize on your hard work and that is unfortunate.

I am not going to justify selfish CV behavior out there because there is some of that sort out there.

I wish more players would see your contribution as that, support, then a CV Player, should take it upon themselves to capitalize on the opportunity. Because it benefits the team as a whole.

CV players either think of instant damage now or damage later.

It is the ones that are patient enough to get it later that are the support players you are looking for

If you see a CV straight up hits BBs and doesn't spot right away, you might be in for a rough day.

That is unfortunate.

As a player that sails them all and sees the whole perspective, it's important to be considerate of the team in competitive.

In a CV, you have to be the responsible one, and be the support at first, the team then does as you do and cripples cruisers, takes caps knowing that a CV has their back, and that win will come easily enough.

It is often not appreciated the contributions of other ships and how they have to work in unison with the team, in order to coordinate an effective attack. And many players seldom make the connection or correlation of success and teamwork.

But it is there.

A team wins.

If I win a whole match sinking every red, then either my whole team disconnected, red disconnected, or I had that rarest of moments that would never happen again in a million years.

Because nobody can be that bad in a match and I can't win a match all by myself. Superunicum or not.

It is just not possible.

Thanks for your observation.👍

 

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6 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Why Do CV Drivers Target AA Ships?

Cause they can.

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2 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Cause they can.

Best and accurate answer.  Because it doesn't make one once of a difference....  Occam would be proud !

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A few days ago while playing PEF I had the experience of watching the red CV's first squad fly between myself and our QE to attack our CV.  You can guess that squad didn't survive long enough to drop.

Sometimes the explanation is as simple as the player doesn't know any better and is just here to drop bombs/torps on ships.

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Even the so called best aa ship can do little when it yolos its all about target selection from the looks of where that cv driver placed on your team he knew who and where to attack.

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3 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Sometimes the things that have to be dealt with are under an AA umbrella, so you lose planes to the AA umbrella if you want to win.

That being said, there's only one kill on a CV (which is the Kaga on the green team).  The 43 on the Mass is most likely padded with fighters, as the Graf Zeppelin's plane reserves are rather poor.  Or perhaps the Mass had kill pressure on the GZ, so it threw planes into the blender trying to save itself.  Both are possible.

I was the Mass. The CV never dropped fighters on me. And yes, towards the end (of the CV) it knew that I was hunting it so it was desperate. The enemy CV actually died fairly early in the game because it waited too long to flee a collapsing flank. There was a cyclone so I couldn't see any other ships so I just followed the planes back to the enemy CV. Our Tirpitz, not wanting to be alone vs a CV, followed me and we easily got the kill.

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39 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

A few days ago while playing PEF I had the experience of watching the red CV's first squad fly between myself and our QE to attack our CV.  You can guess that squad didn't survive long enough to drop.

Sometimes the explanation is as simple as the player doesn't know any better and is just here to drop bombs/torps on ships.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that it takes a special kind of stupid to fly through 2 ships' AA umbrellas to get to a third ship on the far side.  But with WoWS, you get all kinds.

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6 hours ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

No no no. Why do BAD CV players do this. A good one can sink a ship like that with much less losses. 

  You could be right bad idea go where you'll be shot down. 

    Since CV knows they're gettin their planes back, why not take it the tougher AA since AA can be destroyed and you know you'll get your drop even if a few planes get shot down. 

     Since CVS get their planes back take out the heavy as before the Regen time slows, you can then handle the low AA. 

      Of course CVS have no advantages so never mind.

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6 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Also note your cv did the same but actually sank their mass.

And you know this how? There's no detailed statistics screen included, for all we know the Massachusetts could've forgotten the Hipper has torpedoes.

Edited by black_hull4
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31 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that it takes a special kind of stupid to fly through 2 ships' AA umbrellas to get to a third ship on the far side.  But with WoWS, you get all kinds.

It depends on the situation and the CV If the CV can afford the losses or things the planes are tanky enough to make it, it may fly through 2 ships' AA to finish off a cripple. I've done it lots of times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Certain ships have to be finished off if they are crippled almost no matter the cost. Torp DDs need to be finished off, CVs need to be finished off, and almost anything that can heal needs to be killed off even if you have to send your planes on a death ride into the AA. If those ships survive your team is in for long-term problems. 

It also depends on the CV. Kaga can usually afford the losses as can Enterprise. Midway + Alex Ovechkin may be able to bull its tough planes through the AA (particularly the rocket planes) fast enough to finish a cripple. FDR's may be tough enough even if they are very slow. Indom I think is still able to slingshot its planes through and can avoid too much loss. GZ really can't afford to do that, nor can Saipan. Their regen is too slow and capacity is too low for the losses to be wroth it. 

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