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Sabene

CV Karma - a proposal

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1 hour ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.

"If you trim yourself to suit others you will soon whittle yourself away to nothing." 

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Why karma will never amount to anything people will find a way to how can I say to:etc_swear: the system. People find ways to abuse this karma crap all the time friends on other team let's comp him before the match starts he does the same easy karma even in a bad game. Cv gets a kraken lose 2 karma just for being a cv. Why they should just take it out and flush it. Good play is rare to reward. 

Yet as I have seen the staff say in here it's working as intended. :cap_like:

I myself say if I don't lose karma while in a cv feel insulted like I didn't do my job. Make the game less fun for you? Good if I'm lucky I'll make ya quit. Go in with that mentality while playing a cv and you will do alright. It's not for the thin skinned.

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People react to CV players the same way they would to somebody ripping a big stinky one in a crowded elevator.

It's legal, natural, and fun to do....but why would you expect to be loved for it?

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2 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

I'm a DD main and I realized a long time ago that CVs are here to stay.  That said, I don't grief enemy CVs for coming after me because they're part of the game.  I have CVs in my port but I only play them to understand how to counter them when playing DD's.  Like this original author, I also value my Karma because while from a practical point of view it's useless, it measures to a certain degree my gameplay and I know it can be seen by others if they so choose.  I don't automatically ding my CV or the red CV karma right at the beginning of the match JUST because they're playing CV.  You just a [edited] bag, toxic, or both for doing that. 

CVs are not balanced and I didn't care for the rework but that's WG's problem.  Players are going to CV hate and pretty soon, will be doing Sub hate.  I suggest either do away with Karma altogether or make it meaningful for the community in the form of an extra crate of credits, camos, whatever for certain thresholds achieved.  Encourage the player base to promote good team play and sportsmanship and the toxic players will be punished for the opposite.  I used to play WoT and that player base is TOXIC. One of the reasons I left it.  I hope this player base doesn't become the same.

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2 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

 

Or CVs can just automatically receive 1 negative karma every time they enter battle.

Edited by CaptainKaitoGhost
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28 minutes ago, Sui_Generis said:

People react to CV players the same way they would to somebody ripping a big stinky one in a crowded elevator.

It's legal, natural, and fun to do....but why would you expect to be loved for it?

:Smile_sad:

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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

The silly beta boy vent system called Karma needs to go for every class.

DDs get dinged for capping too soon and dying... Capping to slowly and living ( even if they win ) not spotting for island humpers while dodging CV , Radars etc.

Cruiser get Dinged for not instantly killing DDs and shooting down all planes in the first 3 minutes.

BBs get dinged for shooting from the back where they (some) belong OR For in close fighters brawling away and tanking damage doing the push thing.

Its all a silly thing that needs to go away.. 

 

Agreed 

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3 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

It isn't just CV's although the haters are far louder here. Go and have a great games in a Minotaur, Smolenske, or Colbert and watch the in game karma dwindle.

1 hour ago, BasedCoomer said:

you need a third party mod to see karma, a large majority of the player base is mod free, it means nothing.

No, you simply have to click on your name in port and it will be right next to your name in the drop down menu.

1 hour ago, Athrun2021 said:

Why karma will never amount to anything people will find a way to how can I say to:etc_swear: the system. People find ways to abuse this karma crap all the time friends on other team let's comp him before the match starts he does the same easy karma even in a bad game. Cv gets a kraken lose 2 karma just for being a cv. Why they should just take it out and flush it. Good play is rare to reward. 

Yet as I have seen the staff say in here it's working as intended. :cap_like:

I myself say if I don't lose karma while in a cv feel insulted like I didn't do my job. Make the game less fun for you? Good if I'm lucky I'll make ya quit. Go in with that mentality while playing a cv and you will do alright. It's not for the thin skinned.

It is meaningless because it is anonymous. I haven't played enough recently on the EU server but their forum reactions are not anonymous and you know who reacted and how. My suggestion for negative in game karma is to require a written reason of at least 10 words and for who used what reason good or bad visible. This would make the people that neg rep for good play at least consider what they are trying to claim. If I face plant early on and give away a cap I could have kept neutral for a long time and get neg repped for bad play I would probably look them up and tell them I agree.

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I used to be a CV main during the RTS era, but recently I only play them to finish missions or clear the lowest goals of Naval Battles so the clan CV mains can focus on the higher bars. The following story happened in the past month doing one of these things.

I was playing in Kaga and having a very good game I had 4 kills and just barely missed my 5th when the game ended. Sadly my team lost due to terrible destroyer play early on. Three of my teammates said in chat they were complimenting me and cheering me on as I nearly pulled us back. My karma still went from 2 to 0. This is a perfect example of why Karma doesn't and can't have any real in game effect. It's completely disfunctional.

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3 hours ago, Sabene said:

I have a proposal for WG.. 

WG, if you want people to play CVs... 

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base... 

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karmaIn short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

Or, just as a thought WG, maybe address the reasons *why* people give negative karma to CVs?

I know, addressing the cause and not just treating the symptoms...

And OP, you ever thought there might be a reason so many people give CV players bad karma?

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3 hours ago, Battleship_Constitution said:

Ahh see here is the deal.

DD's caught a stealth fire nerf....well all classes did. Biggest complaint from all classes about the DD....Stealth fire. Boom fixed. As a BB main I dont even mind DD's got the "cant be penned by a BB" thing. Forces us to use HE every once in a while.

CA's CAN and are deleted when sailing broadside by a BB However no change made.....And to be fair not a single complaint about it from CA mains.

so your last point means nothing when These were fixed or not an issue to start with.

Man, so you must be cleaning up in those OP CVs.    

That is what makes your argument laughable.  You claim a class is too powerful when really I find them to be more of an annoyance, and XP to be earned for shooting down aircraft.  At higher tiers I don't see many to begin with.   Of course and as with ither classes - when you run into an expert you are most likely going to lose.

Now at tier 4, I would agree nerfs/caps are needed as the massive amounts of CVs there have to be turning off newcomers.  

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4 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

 

Bah... there always seems to be a certain portion of any "community" that want to be petulant and childish because they don't get their way, those types won't be happy regardless of the situation.

If you have fun playing CVs then you should play CVs , don't let the whiners discourage you.

 

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6 hours ago, Sabene said:

I actually treasure my karma. 

Well, there is your problem.

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If there is a CV in the game, they will receive the ire of the whiny crying complainers that seem to exist in almost every match. If there is no CV, it will usually instead be the DD player. It doesn't even matter if your team is winning, there is almost always someone crying that someone else is useless. Welcome to 2020, where people think they should be able to tell everyone else what to do, and if they don't, they are horrible evil people who deserve punishment.  

I was at about 50 karma after not playing CV for 2 weeks. I still had to listen to players cry in every match. So i decided to just play CV for 2 days straight. Welcome back to 0 karma.

Edited by Ariochaotik

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7 minutes ago, Ariochaotik said:

I was at about 50 karma after not playing CV for 2 weeks. I still had to listen to players cry in every match. So i decided to just play CV for 2 days straight. Welcome back to 0 karma.

Ouch.

 

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@Hapa_Fodder kindly close this thread.  Proposal made.  WG can review.

The negative responses have been..umm...unfortunate.  It was an idea put forth and not meant to stir up the populace.

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11 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did you actually say that CV players don't impact games most of the time? The CV is one of the most influential ships because it has the capability to just walk around and poop on people. If your CV is just inting planes into a group of 3 hallands repeatedly while the enemy CV player is dumpstering people because lmbo counterplay, of course your team is going to be mad at him. Likewise when the team getting dumpstered gets 30kd by Richtofen planes, he's not very happy. A CV just ruined their game with no potential for counterplay. So yeah they're gonna lash out on the thing that just bent them over. Plus the karma system is pretty meaningless. The only thing I like about having more karma is that it gives me more reports so that I can use them on brain dead players who decides it's a good idea to push their GK into a crossfire of 7 enemy ships while also gaining literally nothing of actual importance.

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10 hours ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Ive read all the threads,  constantly,  about broken CVs and have never seen actual data to support the class being over powered or broken, none.

Yes you occasionally get an OP ship but that happens with many other classes as well,

You can argue that the perception of "no counter play" makes for a feels bad kind of experience, but you can't use that to claim they are OP or Broken - those are two different things happening. 

 

Facts don't care about your feelings 

If there is no counterplay to an entire class of ships how is that not broken by design?

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11 hours ago, Sabene said:

Players use karma as retaliation when dealing with CVs.  CV player plays well and he gets karma-blapped almost automatically.  

You mean like the Tier 3 and 4 ships that have to fight two and sometimes three carriers in a match when they literally have no anti-aircraft protection?  I think those guys get to use karma as they see fit. You want the non carrier players to understand your frustration? Fine, but then you better understand ours as well. 

Top 30 Propeller GIFs | Find the best GIF on Gfycat

An entire match of this isn't fun for those on the receiving end, especially at the lower tiers. 

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10 hours ago, Battleship_Constitution said:

Bad Karma because you play a broken class and most people are selfish in a broken class.

To be fair CV main players are the most hated player in the game in random battles. (pending sub launch into random battles) Thats because in order to make the CV class playable they nerfed all other classes AA and will be doing it again soon with a AA cycle cool down/ warm up for DD players.
 

I agree 100%.

10 hours ago, Battleship_Constitution said:

As to Karma.....it has No meaning in the game. You get nothing if you have high Karma and you get nothing for zero karma. So the argument can be make that Karma in game is useless to start with.

 

Umm....Not sure about that one.Actually, in my experience, quite the opposite even if slightly.

 

10 hours ago, Battleship_Constitution said:

WG needs to fix CV's first, CV players need to stop focusing on damage in a game and be more of a support role. WG needs to make CV be able to be de planed once again as punishment for being reckless with planes.
 

Weegee probably  NEVER gonna fix Cv's. From their pov they work as intended. Otherwise I agree with you.

.

10 hours ago, Battleship_Constitution said:

Until them expect to be hated.
 

Weggee doesn't care about the playerbase, in terms of community. Hence they don't care about the toxicity level in the game. Actually they don't really care about the game at all. For them it is "robota" ( i.e work in russian/soviet). They don't really like it ( hence they don;t understand it, nor the players) From their pov we are some kind of suckers and losers because we are playing their game. That's the sad reality.

 

I hate Cv's. I don't hate players. But if I see FDR or MvR then insta report, which can be multiplied based on behaviour. Picking Cv's generally and picking those Cv's...are NOT the same thing, at least for me.

 

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11 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

I do not play CVs! 

I do not like CVs, because I mostly play mid tier, where many ships have little to no AA.  Making us nothing more than XP fodder for 4 CV games. 

Yes I have been seeing more and more 2 CVs per side games at T6.  As a T5 CL in a T7 game it is hard enough without CVs spotting and harassing ships with little or no AA, only to be targeted by a BB on the other side of the map you can't even see.

 

You want an improvement, argue for WG to actually fix AA on all ships, then you might see a change in karma.  When players feel that actually have a chance vs the massive number of planes that come from 2 red CVs.  As CV player you do not want that, do you? 

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12 hours ago, Sabene said:

I find myself not wanting to play a CV much.  Why?

Because the attitude of players in game toward CVs is horrible.  The red team, the green team...SOMEONE always has a gripe about CVs and shares.

I play a CV and I place in the top half of my team....and my karma suffers.  My conclusion is that how the CV player plays is of little matter most of the time.  There are enough folks who dislike CVs to just blap them with a negative karma hit.  

And if the CV has a poor game?  Karma will take multiple hits...from the green team.

And if the CV has an excellent game?  Karma will still take multiple hits...from the red team.

Many folks do not play CVs at all and they are the most critical of CVs.  They are just opposed to the concept of planes in WoWs so they lash out.  They also have no idea the challenges of CV play...and they do not care.

So here is my dilemma:  playing a CV usually results in my losing karma.  Yes, karma has little meaning in the game perhaps but it does signify a good player and a good teammate.  I consider myself both and I actually treasure my karma.  But playing a CV is a detriment to my karma, regardless of how well I play the CV.

This is disappointing.

So...

I have a proposal for WG..

WG, if you want people to play CVs...

...given the negative meta/outlook/beliefs harbored against CVs by a significant portion of the player base...

...why don't you make it impossible for a CV player to give or receive karma?  In short, if a CV is in the game that CV player is karma-immune:  he can't receive karma feedback and he can't give any.

 

Easy enough.

WG wants CVs in the game.  WG wants karma in the game.  But those two don't mesh well with highly opinionated players in the game.  And we have our share of highly opinionated players.

So make CV players karma-immune.  They can't give or receive karma impacts when playing a CV.  This would make it more attractive, more bearable, to play a CV.

My suggestion.

Welcome to "CV Life".

Part of the pride that good CV players have is because of the 'salt' they've endured.

Do well at your job.  Communicate and cooperate, and occasionally be pleasantly surprised by a compliment.

I give compliments often enough to run out of them on a daily basis.

I play all available ship types.

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