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Original_Sean

Explain this loss

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image.thumb.png.9da91f397acb8745c5f27d058804e5a8.png

So this was a standard battle, and the bases didn't get capped, so both teams should have been earning victory points at the same rate. Leaving the difference as the the ships lost vs. ships killed. IIRC value doesn't change with tier so Green should be ahead on points, right? But Red got to 1000 first. Anyone able to parse this conundrum?

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Did time run out? Don't need to reach 1000 points; if time runs out and the red team is ahead on points they win.

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If the red team made it to your cap, you stop generating points.  If they spent more time in your cap than you spent in their cap, the difference can exceed the ship variance.

Replay would be helpful.

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Any of these is possible:

Each ship type is assigned a point value. Sink the highest value more than the opposing team, win.  If one ship is on a cap briefly than another, win as time expires. You only have to win by 1 point. 

But as others have said, a replay would be nice.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Original_Sean said:

image.thumb.png.9da91f397acb8745c5f27d058804e5a8.png

So this was a standard battle, and the bases didn't get capped, so both teams should have been earning victory points at the same rate. Leaving the difference as the the ships lost vs. ships killed. IIRC value doesn't change with tier so Green should be ahead on points, right? But Red got to 1000 first. Anyone able to parse this conundrum?

Any time spent in the other teams cap stops the points from ticking up...somebody from the red team must have stepped on your cap long enough to offset the balance of points between the difference in points between a DD & a BB.

It's not a lot of points & would only have taken about 15-20 seconds to offset it...a minute at the most to be sure (I believe different maps tick points quicker than others so not sure how long exactly).

 

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4 hours ago, Lert said:

Did time run out? Don't need to reach 1000 points; if time runs out and the red team is ahead on points they win.

 

4 hours ago, HamptonRoads said:

If the red team made it to your cap, you stop generating points.  If they spent more time in your cap than you spent in their cap, the difference can exceed the ship variance.

Replay would be helpful.

 

13 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Any time spent in the other teams cap stops the points from ticking up...somebody from the red team must have stepped on your cap long enough to offset the balance of points between the difference in points between a DD & a BB.

It's not a lot of points & would only have taken about 15-20 seconds to offset it...a minute at the most to be sure (I believe different maps tick points quicker than others so not sure how long exactly).

 

All of the above.

BB vs DD is 25 points difference. Standard cap gain is 2 points every 6 seconds. Reds need to block the Green team's cap for 78 seconds (or 78 seconds more than Green team blocks their's) to gain the additional 26 points for the win.

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I bet 100% the mercy rule was invoked when your team hit 0 points.

Edited by Laser_Beam

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12 minutes ago, Laser_Beam said:

I bet 100% the mercy rule was invoked when your team hit 0 points.

In standard battle, its a little bit harder to do that compared to say Domination mod. Plus, it was 3vs3 at the time of stoppage.

I think a replay is an order to better explain the OP what happened... I think a red ship made it to their cap..

It would've been a draw, but red won on pts. That is what I think,

 

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It's why I struggle and struggle as a DD to get in the red cap for even a few seconds. Half a minute can win a match. 

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29 minutes ago, Laser_Beam said:

I bet 100% the mercy rule was invoked when your team hit 0 points.

No chance of that...both teams had the same amount of ships left (& green had 3 BBs left to reds 2 BBs & a DD so green would have had more points if nobody had stepped on a cap...& the clock would have been ticking up points for both teams from the beginning so mercy rule couldn't have been involved.

11 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

In standard battle, its a little bit harder to do that compared to say Domination mod. Plus, it was 3vs3 at the time of stoppage.

I think a replay is an order to better explain the OP what happened... I think a red ship made it to their cap..

It would've been a draw, but red won on pts. That is what I think,

 

No draw if nobody stepped on a cap...greens would have won because reds had a DD that is worth less points than the 3 BBs green had.

47 minutes ago, Amaruk said:

Standard cap gain is 2 points every 6 seconds.

Is that standard on all maps?

Either way I was off on the "minute at most" & way off on the 10-15 seconds :-0

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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4 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

It's why I struggle and struggle as a DD to get in the red cap for even a few seconds. Half a minute can win a match. 

1 second can win a match if an even number of the same type of ships is left on each team...

...only takes 1 tick of the clock to give a 2 point advantage & if you step on it just a moment before the point tick that's all you need.

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1 minute ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

No draw if nobody stepped on a cap...greens would have won because reds had a DD that is worth less points than the 3 BBs green had.

That is what I implied based on the pic having 3 ship alive on both sides at time of stoppage...

Normally that is a draw if the time ran out... You got 5 slow sumo ships and one stealth ninja alive.. I am willing to guess the Ninja made passed the sumo diaper ships to make it to the cap. Won on pts...

Kudos to the Ninja for winning it for the red fleet.

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7 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

That is what I implied based on the pic having 3 ship alive on both sides at time of stoppage...

Normally that is a draw if the time ran out... You got 5 slow sumo ships and one stealth ninja alive.. I am willing to guess the Ninja made passed the sumo diaper ships to make it to the cap. Won on pts...

Kudos to the Ninja for winning it for the red fleet.

The ship count is not the only relevant point...the types of ships also matter because they are all worth different amounts of points.

If all ships had been BBs it would have been a draw but because the reds had a DD (worth less than a BB) there was no chance for a draw*** because the greens would have had more points than the reds...if the reds hadn't stepped on their cap (which obviously happened as it is the only explanation for reds winning).

***Unless reds had only stepped on their cap long enough to exactly balance out the difference between the BB & the DD...which was impossible actually as the difference in points was 25 & the ticks are worth 2 each...but w/other ship types it could have been balanced out to a draw.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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19 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Is that standard on all maps?

 

No, just Standard. Points accumulation is different for each possible combination of capture points/modes.   https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Game_Modes#Battle_Modes

 

 

19 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

It would've been a draw...

 

A draw was never possible in this game.

Green team lost an extra DD, that's -45 for them and +30 for Red team

Green team killed an extra BB, that's +40 for them and -60 for red team

Green team total is -5 vs Red team at -30, a difference of 25 points in Green's favor.

Standard cap gain is 2 points every 6 seconds while under team control.

If Red team gains 24 points or less through cap control, they lose.

If Red team gains 26 points or more through cap control, they win.

It is mathematically impossible for Red team to gain 25 points, thus draw cannot happen.

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6 minutes ago, Amaruk said:

A draw was never possible in this game.

Green team lost an extra DD, that's -45 for them and +30 for Red team

Green team killed an extra BB, that's +40 for them and -60 for red team

Green team total is -5 vs Red team at -30, a difference of 25 points in Green's favor.

Standard cap gain is 2 points every 6 seconds while under team control.

If Red team gains 24 points or less through cap control, they lose.

If Red team gains 26 points or more through cap control, they win.

It is mathematically impossible for Red team to gain 25 points, thus draw cannot happen.

Context... (from post #15)

"In standard battle, its a little bit harder to do that compared to say Domination mod. Plus, it was 3vs3 at the time of stoppage.

I think a replay is an order to better explain the OP what happened... I think a red ship made it to their cap.."


In standard battle, draws are always on play... (both teams start with the same points and points gain).

Until proven otherwise in battle... I think the red ninja made it to their cap.

Edited by Navalpride33

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On 10/31/2020 at 7:45 PM, HamptonRoads said:

If the red team made it to your cap, you stop generating points.  If they spent more time in your cap than you spent in their cap, the difference can exceed the ship variance.

Replay would be helpful.

I was not aware of this factor, but for that matter we were in Red cap when it ended. So shouldn't Red have been frozen at that time? I tried to watch the replay but it seems to be corrupted, ends early on in the battle.

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10 minutes ago, Original_Sean said:

I was not aware of this factor, but for that matter we were in Red cap when it ended. So shouldn't Red have been frozen at that time? I tried to watch the replay but it seems to be corrupted, ends early on in the battle.

If you were in the red cap, but time ran out and they were ahead in points they would still win.  

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4 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

If you were in the red cap, but time ran out and they were ahead in points they would still win.  

This.

20 hours ago, Amaruk said:

BB vs DD is 25 points difference. Standard cap gain is 2 points every 6 seconds. Reds need to block the Green team's cap for 78 seconds (or 78 seconds MORE than Green team blocks their's) to gain the additional 26 points for the win.

 

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8 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

If you were in the red cap, but time ran out and they were ahead in points they would still win.  

Possibly: i don't think I've ever still been alive for a time out in random. Isn't it like co-op where the personal results say "Time expired- enemy team won on points"? The results screen to my memory definitely said "The enemy completed the mission."

Thanks for all the info. Due to a TBI I've had trouble learning everything about this game.

Edited by Original_Sean
add a statement

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The reds might have had 950 points or so and sunk one of your ships to put them over the 1000 point mark.

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13 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

The reds might have had 950 points or so and sunk one of your ships to put them over the 1000 point mark.

Possibly; Not sure when our Colorado died, but it was late

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1 hour ago, Original_Sean said:

Possibly; Not sure when our Colorado died, but it was late

Attach the replay, that would give all sorts of info.  Right now it's just all wild guesses with little to go off of.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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