Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
sasquatch_research

Alternative American BB Line SUCKS Badly

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

477
[THREE]
Members
2,454 posts
13,671 battles

Hey

I don't know who at Wargaming came up with the specs and who tested them but the Alternative BB line royally sucks.  Starting with Kansas which is pathetic is not a fun experience and I also have the Minnesota and it's a boring existence to play.  Hindered by the 40 second reload which even at 30 seconds would hardly make much improvement to it's play style; I recently shot a full salvo at a broadside Colorado at 6km and only hit 1 pen, and 2 over pens, the rest missing their mark.   They are pathetically slow and unlike Warspite which is slow it can turn decently well, but not these lumbering bricks, not to mention they are HE spam farms and you have little to offset it since Wargaming decided to not give it normal American BB heal.  The secondary guns are not worth buffing since they are short range, even for the Minnesota.  The only redeeming value (not that it makes for an enjoyable playstyle) is the AA guns are pretty good.  Given the experience I have had with Kansas and Minnesota and others that have met in battle; this is by far the worst tech tree line that Wargaming has put into game, and they are NOT worth playing.  Whoever at Wargaming that created the specs of these boats do not deserve to develop any further ships.  The modelers gets kudos for how great they looks, but from a play style, the suck Krispy Kreme levels of bad.  Port Queens at best.


Pete

  • Cool 5
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,255
[RLGN]
Members
14,884 posts
26,418 battles

Actually like The Donut, but agree that (Kansas at least, only one I have,) they’re really bad.

Such fun charging into the middle of things at the speed of a turtle, and still getting nothing for it because everything dies first, (slow reload, not that you can actually hit anything.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
828
[KIA-T]
Members
2,237 posts
9,838 battles

Is it actually the alternative line?

Sure its the second one introduced, but they follow on identically to previous tier ships playstyles and characters (poor performance not withstanding).

If a split line is where the tech tree branches into a new and different style of ship and playstyle, wouldn't NC>Montana actually be the split in this case?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,130
[TXGUN]
Beta Testers
3,220 posts
26,864 battles

I guess I will skip this line of American Battleships and wait until WG revamps them upgrade wise. Why even get them only to become port Queens collecting dust  ????? Makes no sense getting something that can't shoot straight anyway.........  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,733
[SALVO]
Members
25,453 posts
27,411 battles
1 hour ago, Akeno017 said:

Is it actually the alternative line?

Sure its the second one introduced, but they follow on identically to previous tier ships playstyles and characters (poor performance not withstanding).

If a split line is where the tech tree branches into a new and different style of ship and playstyle, wouldn't NC>Montana actually be the split in this case?

No, a split line would start right down at tier 3 using BB classes that were built in steel, up to tier 9 where they'd need to get inventive (and should have saved Georgia and Ohio for this very purpose).

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
356 posts
8 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I don't know who at Wargaming came up with the specs and who tested them but the Alternative BB line royally sucks.  Starting with Kansas which is pathetic is not a fun experience and I also have the Minnesota and it's a boring existence to play.  Hindered by the 40 second reload which even at 30 seconds would hardly make much improvement to it's play style; I recently shot a full salvo at a broadside Colorado at 6km and only hit 1 pen, and 2 over pens, the rest missing their mark.   They are pathetically slow and unlike Warspite which is slow it can turn decently well, but not these lumbering bricks, not to mention they are HE spam farms and you have little to offset it since Wargaming decided to not give it normal American BB heal.  The secondary guns are not worth buffing since they are short range, even for the Minnesota.  The only redeeming value (not that it makes for an enjoyable playstyle) is the AA guns are pretty good.  Given the experience I have had with Kansas and Minnesota and others that have met in battle; this is by far the worst tech tree line that Wargaming has put into game, and they are NOT worth playing.  Whoever at Wargaming that created the specs of these boats do not deserve to develop any further ships.  The modelers gets kudos for how great they looks, but from a play style, the suck Krispy Kreme levels of bad.  Port Queens at best.


Pete

With you all the way, until the Krispy Kreme part. 

Krispy Kreme is the best donut you can get.  


But Kansas sucks.  I can't see a redeeming quality about it.  Slow reload, inaccurate guns, not that powerful a gun, ship is slow, secondaries are the same as any other US BB in that range......I thought all the ships were supposed to balance out somehow.   If you have a powerful gun, then they're not as accurate, or maybe the range is shorter.   And you might have weaker armor or slow speed. 
If you have accurate guns, maybe weaker armor or it's slow, or they aren't as powerful.

Or some other combo, but it's supposed to have SOME redeeming feature.   

Not seeing it on this one. 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
202
[UNC]
Members
813 posts
6,081 battles

Only thing I can think of is that Kansas and Minnesota are penance for the 12x USN 457's you get with Vermont, and TBH I don't think it will be worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
166
[LOIN]
Supertester
835 posts
On 10/25/2020 at 11:59 AM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I don't know who at Wargaming came up with the specs and who tested them but the Alternative BB line royally sucks.  Starting with Kansas which is pathetic is not a fun experience and I also have the Minnesota and it's a boring existence to play.  Hindered by the 40 second reload which even at 30 seconds would hardly make much improvement to it's play style; I recently shot a full salvo at a broadside Colorado at 6km and only hit 1 pen, and 2 over pens, the rest missing their mark.   They are pathetically slow and unlike Warspite which is slow it can turn decently well, but not these lumbering bricks, not to mention they are HE spam farms and you have little to offset it since Wargaming decided to not give it normal American BB heal.  The secondary guns are not worth buffing since they are short range, even for the Minnesota.  The only redeeming value (not that it makes for an enjoyable playstyle) is the AA guns are pretty good.  Given the experience I have had with Kansas and Minnesota and others that have met in battle; this is by far the worst tech tree line that Wargaming has put into game, and they are NOT worth playing.  Whoever at Wargaming that created the specs of these boats do not deserve to develop any further ships.  The modelers gets kudos for how great they looks, but from a play style, the suck Krispy Kreme levels of bad.  Port Queens at best.


Pete

I agree with you 99.99%. The other 00.01% disagrees because Krispy Kreme is good, very good. One of the best donuts around that and a custom donut place in my town. Anyway on to these new U.S battleships. Yes I completly agree. They have potential, to be a heavy firepower line with heavy armor line but slow and longer than average reloads. That's simply not the case, I feel they rushed them. Granted, people have been looking forward to this; however. Rushing things is not the way to go. Currently, why wouldn't you not want to use NC or Iowa over them? NC hits like a train; Kansas. Not really, actually Colorado penetrates armor better than Kansas (and Colorado is a tier 7!!!). 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
477
[THREE]
Members
2,454 posts
13,671 battles
8 hours ago, Starfleet1701 said:

I agree with you 99.99%. The other 00.01% disagrees because Krispy Kreme is good, very good. One of the best donuts around that and a custom donut place in my town. Anyway on to these new U.S battleships. Yes I completly agree. They have potential, to be a heavy firepower line with heavy armor line but slow and longer than average reloads. That's simply not the case, I feel they rushed them. Granted, people have been looking forward to this; however. Rushing things is not the way to go. Currently, why wouldn't you not want to use NC or Iowa over them? NC hits like a train; Kansas. Not really, actually Colorado penetrates armor better than Kansas (and Colorado is a tier 7!!!). 

Hey

The one single thing that would have made them fun (well, two) would have been to made them secondary powerful, so their secondary guns had great range for their tiers, and that they reduced the reload  to something around 32 seconds.  That would have gave them potential since their dispersion is garbage on the main guns, they are very slow and they are not that maneuverable because of the slow speed and slow turrets hinder turning which is very pathetic at higher tiers.  They should have also received the traditional American BB heal since they cannot evade HE spam.  Relatively minor chances could make the line better BUT I doubt Wargaming will do anything and I don't see a compelling reason to play them personally.

P.S. I would also take California and make it into a secondary decent boat as well; presently, it's not work building into a secondary build.

 

Pete

Edited by sasquatch_research

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,452
[REVY]
Members
8,089 posts
6,118 battles
On 10/25/2020 at 10:33 AM, Estimated_Prophet said:

Actually like The Donut, but agree that (Kansas at least, only one I have,) they’re really bad.

Such fun charging into the middle of things at the speed of a turtle, and still getting nothing for it because everything dies first, (slow reload, not that you can actually hit anything.)

I'm getting PTSD flashbacks of playing the Kawachi on the Ocean map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[RG-1]
[RG-1]
Members
16 posts
2,995 battles

Having played my Minnesota a bit...

Agreed, these are awful, awful, awful. Something needs to change or they need to be removed as tech tree ships. I don't see how they can be competitive with GK's Kremlins and Yamatos.. much less the steel and RB ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
64
[ARMDA]
[ARMDA]
Members
962 posts
3,473 battles

Having played nothing but Minnesota for the few days I've had her, I can agree. I find her maneuverability and speed comfortable to my playstyle(for the most part. There are some times when I wish she was faster). Her guns on the other hand are wildly inconsistent. They're usually quite accurate, but I get massively varied damage counts each game. One time I can slam two broadsides into a Georgia, obliterating it then go on to killing a Iowa with a extremely quick and not very accurate salvo as I turn to engage an Alaska, then utterly destroy that same alaska with only my two front turrets(as the other two were used on the Iowa) then the next game I mabye get 4 pens max per salvo while the rest ricochet. I just wish the guns/shells were more consistent performance wise.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15
[-CK-]
Members
23 posts
8,046 battles

Basically these are tier 4 ships with tier 10 guns. At this point, with 11 matches in Kansas and 9 matches in in Minnesota, I actually have higher damage per game in my wyoming than the tier 8 & 9 ships of the same line. I mean how stupid is that? These ships are pointless. I would rather have one turret with three guns that fired every 10 seconds than one of these floating colostomy bags. Then I could actually have some tactical value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
166
[LOIN]
Supertester
835 posts
3 hours ago, Martard said:

Basically these are tier 4 ships with tier 10 guns. At this point, with 11 matches in Kansas and 9 matches in in Minnesota, I actually have higher damage per game in my wyoming than the tier 8 & 9 ships of the same line. I mean how stupid is that? These ships are pointless. I would rather have one turret with three guns that fired every 10 seconds than one of these floating colostomy bags. Then I could actually have some tactical value.

Actually the tiers 8 and 9 have more like tier 7 guns but worse.

Edited by Starfleet1701

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
69
[NET]
Beta Testers
555 posts
5,906 battles

the standard USA bb design is good up to tier 6 with the new mexico and arizona. after that the ships like colorado and kansas just cant compete with all the fast battleships, stealty dds and HE spamming cruisers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
202
[UNC]
Members
813 posts
6,081 battles

I hate to say it, but despite the painfully slow speed and brutal reload Vermont is a pretty darn good ship.  The guns are just terrific.  If you catch anything broadside you will absolutely ruin their day.  Not only that, but the AA is fairly decent.  Had a game earlier where I shot down 74 aircraft, none of which were fighters.  Granted, they were Kaga planes and I think he was newer to CVs but still... I was deleting entire 12 plane squadrons before he could attack. 

First 26 games in Vermont; 80% WR, just shy of 112k average damage.  And I HATED Minnesota.  Gave up on it after 6 games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
203 posts
5,543 battles

I echo what was said previously about the Kansas.  There's no redeeming feature. Armor is poor, speed is atrocious, guns are insanely inaccurate, and I get about one pen per salvo.

The idea that the Kansas is the same tier as Vlad, Mass, NC, Amagi, Richelieu, or Odin is preposterous.  Even Bismarck is better.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4 posts
4,817 battles

The Kansas is an absolutely F*#King miserable boat. I can't believe this garbage went live and WG was like "This is fine." Everything about it sucks except the fact that it has reasonably good AA and an extra turret... WOW!!! OMG so now I can be even more disappointed when my shells magically slide to the left or right of my target at the last second to miss and I get to wait for FOURTY seconds to reload guns that are absolutely mediocre in every respect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
570 posts
5,000 battles
On 12/7/2020 at 4:49 PM, LordCornwalis said:

The Kansas is an absolutely F*#King miserable boat. I can't believe this garbage went live and WG was like "This is fine." Everything about it sucks except the fact that it has reasonably good AA and an extra turret... WOW!!! OMG so now I can be even more disappointed when my shells magically slide to the left or right of my target at the last second to miss and I get to wait for FOURTY seconds to reload guns that are absolutely mediocre in every respect. 

both kansas and minesota feel horribly underpowered, Vermont looks much better but i dont have the willpower to finish minesota grind, not after my "awesome start" in it

 

shot-20.12.08_17.27.36-0021.jpg

no speed, turns like a beached whale, bad concealment, bad reload, questionable accuracy, horrible armor like seriously who balanced this ships? i rather be playing  Geneisenau with t9 MM than this abomination.

The more i think about it the more it feels they are horrible on purpose to make people use free exp to get the vermont.  

Edited by pepe_trueno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4 posts
4,817 battles

That's about my experience. I think I stuck it out for about 20 battles over the last couple of days, and besides a couple of outliers where some potatoes went broadside like 8km away, I struggled to get over 50k damage in that heap. Basically, free XP'd it with my Georgia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
319 posts
4,646 battles

The new US BB's are total failures.

If nothing else, they force passive, boring gameplay:

  • Too slow to get into a fight, escape, or help allies = boring
  • Guns reload too slowly to feel relevant in a match = boring
  • Shots often miss or fail to do real damage = boring
  • Easily farmed to death / not at all as "tough" as promised = boring

Easy fixes to start with:

  • Fix the shells they fire to be something appropriate for the tier. For example, the Kansas currently fires shells weaker than a Colorado, which makes no sense. There is no point in having 3 extra guns over the NC when your guns are all laughably weak (and inaccurate.)
  • Give them the improved Repair Party function you find on the fast US battleship branch. There is no logical reason for the slower, larger, more easily hit battleships to have a WEAKER heal.
  • Cut the reload time time down to 36 seconds. Probably still the longest in the game, but not quite as laughably long.
  • Other minor tweaks are probably needed, too, but none of the above changes require remodeling armor, the ship itself, etc. Not saying these changes would make these ships great, but they at least would wouldn't be obviously crippled for no apparent reason.
Edited by old_radagast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CZS]
Beta Testers
40 posts
11,471 battles

to the OP ,,,, the solution is simple,,pick a different BB line to grind.  Nobody is FORCING you  grind that line LOL.

Everything has its own fans ,  some like slow BBs others do not.

 

 

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,216
[CVA16]
Members
5,650 posts
17,431 battles
5 hours ago, ErikTheVikingMoose said:

Everything has its own fans ,  some like slow BBs others do not.

Yeah, I hear the Slowskys from that Comcast ad love them.

slowski.jpg

Edited by Sabot_100
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
142
[VAS]
Beta Testers
155 posts
6,637 battles
On 12/11/2020 at 6:40 AM, old_radagast said:

The new US BB's are total failures.

If nothing else, they force passive, boring gameplay:

  • Too slow to get into a fight, escape, or help allies = boring
  • Guns reload too slowly to feel relevant in a match = boring
  • Shots often miss or fail to do real damage = boring
  • Easily farmed to death / not at all as "tough" as promised = boring

Easy fixes to start with:

  • Fix the shells they fire to be something appropriate for the tier. For example, the Kansas currently fires shells weaker than a Colorado, which makes no sense. There is no point in having 3 extra guns over the NC when your guns are all laughably weak (and inaccurate.)
  • Give them the improved Repair Party function you find on the fast US battleship branch. There is no logical reason for the slower, larger, more easily hit battleships to have a WEAKER heal.
  • Cut the reload time time down to 36 seconds. Probably still the longest in the game, but not quite as laughably long.
  • Other minor tweaks are probably needed, too, but none of the above changes require remodeling armor, the ship itself, etc. Not saying these changes would make these ships great, but they at least would wouldn't be obviously crippled for no apparent reason.

 

So, having played through to the Vermont and more than a few games in the Vermont, it seems the biggest issues are with the Kansas and Minnesota, and this is largely due to their generally bad accuracy more than anything else. (Which is on the docket to be improved in the next patch, luckily.) The Vermont itself is... actually quite good under the right circumstances. Its still as slow as the other two, but the massive and, more importantly, accurate 12x16" broadside allows even imperfect salvos to take chunks out of whatever they hit.

That being said, because of the slow speed and reload this line is definitely not friendly for new players- the slow speed means that you can't react to developments that well; you have to be proactively moving to positions before you're needed there and that skill takes time and experience to develop. Additionally, while the guns are accurate the slow firing speed is punishing if your aim is off.

 

TL:DR Minnesota and Kansas are still bad but hopefully should get better with the upcoming accuracy buffs. The Vermont itself is good, but has a very high skill floor that punishes lack of skill and inexperience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×