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Jet_set117

Bring Back the old CV playstyle

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This new gameplay for CV is disgusting. I'm an actual pilot and learning to fly a plane is easier than whatever this new gameplay is.  Not only is it incredibly disorienting but it lacks control input.  AA has become so OP with squadron health that it doesn't matter.  I used to average 150k dmg games with the old style and now I find it a struggle to make 50k dmg.  This is a major issue for me as a player,  I can't speak for everyone else but I had deleted the game due to what WG called the CV update which changed the style but it makes CV play boring.  In real life AA on a ship was very inaccurate even with computing due to the way the sea constantly moves the ship, CV's provided a ton of fighter cover for their fleet, and with basically no real use of fighters its pointless to have the first squadron be fighters armed with rockets.  Japan never equipped zeros with rockets so it makes their gameplay unrealistic.  What adds to the immersion break is having the British CVs only doing one strike at a time with only one plane.  Now if I was able to attack in quick succession then maybe I can see the point but it feels so damn slow and by the time I'm done with the strike I've lost a few planes already.  When it was RTS style gameplay CVs did what they did in real life tipping the scales of battle.  CVs back then decided on how the battle would go based on skill.  You can't blame lack of skill on CVs to change the style.  Even with AA as it was it was super strong and hard to fight high tier cruiser with high AA builds.  I can't see this new style being all that effective.  This makes CV less of a artillery type gameplay like in WoT and more like a bunch of rats running into traps and you have to hope you have more rats than they have traps.  I've faced really good CV players that made the game fun and I've played bad CV players who made winning easy but I feel like I have no interaction with the enemy carrier.  Like they are their but touching them is out of the question.  I just want the old style back.  Idk how to get it back but I'll always advocate for the RTS style of CV as it just worked better.  Yeah the damage was too high but that wasn't because of the gameplay style.  You take data where you look at statistics of an actual navy which sails as a massive team and not individuals like in the game.  I feel like this was just a way to stop complaints than fixing any problems.

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It's an Arcade Game, not a simulator. Toy ships in a barrel you can SHOOT AT.......:cap_rambo:

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Never gonna happen, (and I consider the carrier rework to be a burning dumpster of summer fermented cafeteria slops,) because that would require WG to acknowledge it was a mistake in the first place, (which they’ll never do.)

Extremely rare to find anyone who likes the reworked carriers; in game or in the forums, but WG is constantly saying they’re fine...

...whatever.

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7 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Never gonna happen, (and I consider the carrier rework to be a burning dumpster of summer fermented cafeteria slops,) because that would require WG to acknowledge it was a mistake in the first place, (which they’ll never do.)

Extremely rare to find anyone who likes the reworked carriers; in game or in the forums, but WG is constantly saying they’re fine...

...whatever.

I concur. It is hard in today's society to get one person to admit they are wrong about something. But if you reasoned with that person in a healthy debate, they would understand your point of view and maybe come to a compromise.

Sort of like Democracy. Yeah, that. 

But instead, no matter how much reasonable debate and candor, someone in WG who ultimately calls the shots, steadfastly refuses to acknowledge that it was a mistake. 

Did you know, you can get 4th grade children, to come to a consensus, and they are thousands of times as polite, even in a debate? 

Yet, we get Nyet, nope, nada, zip, zilch, go away you pesky git, I sing better than you, and working as intended. 

I am tempted to send the Girls Scouts of America over there to put pressure on that decision maker. For he has no power to persuade theses girls because they know how to play hardball. 

We should have sent them ages ago to settle this. 

I once refused to buy a box of cookies, and one of them used a very devious tactic. They used their hot mom. A Flaming Hotty of  a Mom. 

It was unfair. I bought 8 boxes. I even bought short bread. I had no chance. Not a one.

That was 8 years ago. 

These days. I would ahead and take the side entrance to supermarket. I have a car waiting for extraction. 

Of course, at present, I get my stuff delivered. 

Don't make me send them WG. The Girl Scouts of America is the most elite paramilitary organization on the Earth.

They will make the Spetznatz cry, the Green Berets won't mess with them, and the US Marines buy the cookies. 

Even your government will go on high alert if they fly over. 

Don't mess with the Cookie Mafia.

 

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17 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Don't mess with the Cookie Mafia.

I actually like the shortbread...

...usually though they give me the stink eye because I want to buy all the Thin Mints, (freeze and slowly savor until next cookie season,) but then they won’t have any to sell; so I buy other stuff instead.

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I actually like the shortbread...

...usually though they give me the stink eye because I want to buy all the Thin Mints, (freeze and slowly savor until next cookie season,) but then they won’t have any to sell; so I buy other stuff instead.

I bought the thin mints before. But it is a lie. You don't end up thin. But my breath is fabulous. 

If they ever sell one with Nutella on it, I know at least a few folks that will be at the Cookie Mafia's mercy. And they will have to be on that bike until the Sun burn's out. 

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4 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I bought the thin mints before. But it is a lie. You don't end up thin. But my breath is fabulous. 

If they ever sell one with Nutella on it, I know at least a few folks that will be at the Cookie Mafia's mercy. And they will have to be on that bike until the Sun burn's out. 

If only CVs were as good as their cookies.  Maybe its because WG doesn't have enough love they decide to punish us.  Remember when the first 8 updates rolled out and all were major reworks to Shimakaze.  Basically made a unique destroyer crapbecause people didn't know how to play it

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5 hours ago, Compassghost said:

QQ20200905202054.gif

I, too, miss this kind of gameplay.

If im being honest its better than the flaming pile of Dogshit we have now.  I'll keep commenting till WG decides to respond here and try to get some community involvement before they fix crapthat isn't really broken.

I mean hell in real life Musashi took and I quote "Musashi received a total of 19 torpedo hits, 10 to its port and 9 to its starboard side, 17 bomb impacts, as well as suffering from 18 near-misses on the water near its hull"  so its not impossible for ships if they took bulkheads into account and how ships actually deal with flooding.  

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7 hours ago, Jet_set117 said:

If only CVs were as good as their cookies.  Maybe its because WG doesn't have enough love they decide to punish us.  Remember when the first 8 updates rolled out and all were major reworks to Shimakaze.  Basically made a unique destroyer crapbecause people didn't know how to play it

Yeah, the stealth line Huggies, the stealth fire, the smoke fix when AA used to give away your position in smoke, concealment, etc

It was basically adjustments to shimakaze for cruisers and Battleships. CVs struggled with them too, until they get spotted. Shimas used to easily sneak about.

The first 8 was shimakaze, shimakaze, shimakaze, shimakazes!

It's not like WG didn't struggle with a ship type before. CVs required skill, I was working on my skills, then rework came.

I learned slower because it is hard to multitask. But I would have figured it out eventually. Map awareness is hard to do if you are tracking multiple groups.

WG just lost patience. And they got manipulated by social media. Imagine the irony in that?

Before rework, did I ever complain about CVs bombing me? No. Did I complain about being outclassed by a better player? No.

I grew up respecting skilled players whether they are a boy, girl, different religion, different ethnicity, etc.

Because in the coin era, we all touched and used the same controller and buttons. That is about as level as it gets.

Did games back then favor one gender over another? No. Did any of those games favor any level of intelligence? No.

Everyone back then worked on their skills the same way. Bring some quarters and put in the time.

Don't put in the time, you don't get good.

And none of us ever got mad at a player. We accepted defeat and were gracious in victory. Because it took polished skills. 

Everyone started at the same spot. But it's how you finished that counted.

I was always competitive then and I never let a girl, or anyone different than me in any particular way, get me mad at them in defeat. I showed respect.

If I did get mad, it was at myself for not working hard enough.

Before rework, players of CVs had logged 4 years or less of play time on the ship type.

4 years. That is a commitment. That was sweat, grind, sore fingers, melting brain, and loss of vitamin D.

WG just simply, poof! "We are going to take that away from you because we don't recognize your commitment to the game. We don't care about you, only the other ship types that players play. We will make it so new players can use CVs without playing air traffic controller and missile command combined. We will simplify the controls, modify the interface, etc. We didn't nerf them to the ground. We are not sorry. You don't matter."

Right now, WG is losing players in their own backyard. Why? I haven't a clue. 

You can create as many fantasy ships as you like WG, but so long as we remember what you did to CVs, most players will not put as much time and commitment into the Russian cruisers, the eventual Russian CVs, subs, etc.

Because if the player base puts in the time and commitment to these ships over the next few years, then WG will nerf them. And then those players will finally understand how a ship you worked on for years gets literally taken away from you and is a pale shadow of its former self.

What then? Brand loyalty was severely tested. Recent changes are already affecting players in Russia. Other regions, players are distrustful on the possibility that their favorite ship gets nerfed to the ground too. 

WG didn't listen to its own employees in the past or the departed CCs input. WG wants to impose a company culture of "it's my way or the highway", and a semidetachment of the player base.

Customer service is trying. CMs are trying. But with little to no regard at times to CM communication, it started to look bleak.

WG should get more input on all content from CCs, CMs, and players.

I get it. Customer service is not WG's strength because of the culture ingrained from a former government. The Soviet Union.

It was ingrained to: "Take it or leave it. You have complaint about government, go to Gulag. You only get more if you know someone in party. Our health care is the best, our safety record in industry is the best, government doesn't make mistakes, and the law is absolute. No exceptions unless you are in party top.

You have 4 choices after primary education:

1. Not smart but handy, trade school.

2. Smarty pants, college. But we will be watching you.

3. Not even close to smart or skilled, military.

4. Don't like previous choices, don't eat.

 

Back then, people were just happy to get anything to eat when they stood in line for it.

You didn't complain. Reasons.

Chernobyl is fake news. ( Until the radiation detectors in the West found out.) "We had.. er..an accident. We got this.. maybe.

Learning how to sell goods in a free market economy and using customer service is new to Russia. It's never been done before. Imagine how hard it is to learn from scratch?

But WG, like other companies over there gave it a shot. But were off balance by the social media, complaints, new media, and the Western information age.

So, what now? Can WG take this opportunity to improve?

Is WG working towards that?

Difficult to say from where I am standing.

The rework was a knee jerk reaction.

I find it hard to believe that descendants of the brave souls that repelled the German army in WW2, those brave souls that endured the winter, the bombings, and the losses which dragged out over years, can't endure the task of simply fine tuning a ship type without radically changing it like Stalin changing generals.

Is this not the same country that repelled Napoleon as well? Again, heavy losses.

Because had Russians just simply radically reacted to the invasions by dropping their arms and gave up, only to head back and try something completely different, I think Russians would be speaking French up to WW2 and then German after WW2.

And oddly enough, without that great generation, the whole world would probably have lost WW2, or just that most of the Asian continent would have fallen. 

History. It is not just a good read. It defines your people and their progress.

It shows their triumphs and tragedies. It shows their successes and failures.

It has always been, the very soul of the people who descend from it. And we learn from it.

WG needs to understand that it's okay to make mistakes. That it's okay to work on something longer than expected to make it great without giving up and radically changing it.

It's okay to endure it. Because Gagarin didn't give up did he? Leonov refused to die in space, so he opened his valve to deflate his suit to get back in the capsule. His comrade would not leave him behind.

That's dedication. Learn that word WG. It's often overlooked. And it is often forgotten.

But every great moment, by any person in history, has done it across the world.

Work on the game more WG. Make dedication your defining moment.

It's okay to admit rework was a mistake and just fine tune RTS.

Because thousands of dedicated players endured RTS over 4 years to get really good, and it is not their fault, that only a few of them were alone when the rework came, that opposed it.

Those players put in the time. They endured the latency days. They were with you from the start. Don't forget what they did. 

Instead, help them get back their labor of love. Just like many Devs dedicated time even now. Fine tune RTS, restore the AA from before.

Then we can put the rework behind us all and instead refine the game.

We can finally enjoy it. And if WG does work hard at it, I think it will get really great over time.

But it starts with taking that brave step. Taking the risky path.

Alexi Leonov, took one heck of one and set two records that day. He made the longest space walk, and he prevented a fatal accident. That took some serious courage. And it was even more profound that the Soviet space program back then,  fixed the space suit issue without the new standard being paid in blood.

But Alexi Leonov is a legend. That took a heck of a lot of courage to overcome the fear of decompression.

Well, I think I have said enough for now.

*Drops mic 🎤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman

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2 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

The old "better" way didn't make WG money.

It is why it left.  It is why it won't come back.

I guess WG will have to settle for spam all over the forum then from me.

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15 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Never gonna happen, (and I consider the carrier rework to be a burning dumpster of summer fermented cafeteria slops,) because that would require WG to acknowledge it was a mistake in the first place, (which they’ll never do.)

Extremely rare to find anyone who likes the reworked carriers; in game or in the forums, but WG is constantly saying they’re fine...

...whatever.

The reworked carriers are fine.

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15 hours ago, Raven114 said:

It's an Arcade Game, not a simulator. Toy ships in a barrel you can SHOOT AT.......:cap_rambo:

So.... WoWs is like a game where you fly up the screen shooting things that come down the screen??

Hardly... its a partial historically based game with leanings more to the simulator class than 'arcade" class.

I doubt anyone would spend money on an "arcade game"

BUT.... i also disagree with you... YES the CV play is a joke... the old style CV's took brains to drive... and WoWs insulted all CV drivers with the "new" style of driving a warship... like driving a flying warship.

In this case, WoWs saw the money to be made from deciding to cater to the dumb players rather than fixing CV's the right way... in fact, they DID turn CV's into an arcade version of the game, or, adding a mini game for the kids while the adults played the ship trying to dodge everything thrown at them! This resulted NOT in a "CV rework" but a "Game rework" as they screwed with EVERYTHING to keep the kids happy.

So now... one catapult on a cruiser can launch up to 4 fighters in split second and they called THAT "balancing" the game! Unlimited number of planes also was very unrealistic but hey, the clueless who couldn't manage that loved it...

No CV captain would EVER be allowed to leave the bridge of his ship to go off and fly a mission... that is the silliest thing EVER!

Sorry, but they ruined the game with the new CV's... they sold out us loyal CV players who liked using their brains while driving CV's.... the decision to go with the new game play was a financial decision.... and submarines are headed the same way... I suspect after the subs are "balanced"... this game will actually be be classed as an arcade game with all references to the word "historical" being removed....

So, you cannot call it an "aracde game"..... not just YET!

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5 hours ago, Crucis said:

The reworked carriers are fine.

To you; they’re fine.

To me; they’re garbage.

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On 10/23/2020 at 10:54 AM, kiwi1960 said:

So.... WoWs is like a game where you fly up the screen shooting things that come down the screen??

Hardly... its a partial historically based game with leanings more to the simulator class than 'arcade" class.

I doubt anyone would spend money on an "arcade game"

BUT.... i also disagree with you... YES the CV play is a joke... the old style CV's took brains to drive... and WoWs insulted all CV drivers with the "new" style of driving a warship... like driving a flying warship.

In this case, WoWs saw the money to be made from deciding to cater to the dumb players rather than fixing CV's the right way... in fact, they DID turn CV's into an arcade version of the game, or, adding a mini game for the kids while the adults played the ship trying to dodge everything thrown at them! This resulted NOT in a "CV rework" but a "Game rework" as they screwed with EVERYTHING to keep the kids happy.

So now... one catapult on a cruiser can launch up to 4 fighters in split second and they called THAT "balancing" the game! Unlimited number of planes also was very unrealistic but hey, the clueless who couldn't manage that loved it...

No CV captain would EVER be allowed to leave the bridge of his ship to go off and fly a mission... that is the silliest thing EVER!

Sorry, but they ruined the game with the new CV's... they sold out us loyal CV players who liked using their brains while driving CV's.... the decision to go with the new game play was a financial decision.... and submarines are headed the same way... I suspect after the subs are "balanced"... this game will actually be be classed as an arcade game with all references to the word "historical" being removed....

So, you cannot call it an "aracde game"..... not just YET!

What a load of crap.

RTS CV's were massively overpowered.  Furthermore, the RTS style only catered to the unicum level gamer.   Even merely average players stood no chance in heII of contributing because the RTS play style favored those who were capable of multitasking.  At least with the rework FPS style every CV player has a chance to contribute without having some unicum player come along and wipe him right off the map at every turn.

The only insults here are those you're throwing at less than spectacular CV players with your obnoxiously elitist attitudes.

 

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On 10/23/2020 at 7:43 AM, Crucis said:

The reworked carriers are fine.

You're high

10 hours ago, Crucis said:

What a load of crap.

RTS CV's were massively overpowered.  Furthermore, the RTS style only catered to the unicum level gamer.   Even merely average players stood no chance in heII of contributing because the RTS play style favored those who were capable of multitasking.  At least with the rework FPS style every CV player has a chance to contribute without having some unicum player come along and wipe him right off the map at every turn.

The only insults here are those you're throwing at less than spectacular CV players with your obnoxiously elitist attitudes.

 

 

I know they were OP but at least they functioned.  I did my best to train up and coming CV players and I met most of them later in the game with them giving me a run for my money.  CV's took brains to play that's what made them fun.  You had to learn how ships functioned in a fleet what tier your planes were and what made each carrier unique.  You had to do a lot of planning when it came to CV before the game began.  RTS CV at least functioned and didn't make you disoriented by playing.  I actually know how to fly planes and working on my pilot stuff fo the Air Force and its much easier than doing any of that crap.  If BBs didn't get a Des Moines level buff to their AA I wouldn't have such an issue but they made CV a footnote in the game to where it doesn't matter what you do you're a waste of a ship slot.  If you weren't good at CVs and you knew you couldn't be good don't play it simple as that.  Now its so broken you can't play it no matter how good you are.  I can't play my Haku or Midway without loosing all my planes because AA is so OP now I can't even bomb a damn Iowa class anymore.  Hell I can't even go near any DD Gearing class or not because AA is so dam op you take points damage rather than it being the way it was before.  AA has such a massive buff its like if Yamato used the Type 3 shells that its supposed to have against aircraft.  I cant even protect myself from DDs.  I cant protect myself from BBs or cruisers.  With subs coming out I might as well sink myself.

A type 3 shell is basically a shell developed for Yamatos main guns to shoot at airplanes and explode into a millions of shrapnel taking down bombers and fighters alike.  

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On 10/23/2020 at 7:54 AM, kiwi1960 said:

So.... WoWs is like a game where you fly up the screen shooting things that come down the screen??

Hardly... its a partial historically based game with leanings more to the simulator class than 'arcade" class.

I doubt anyone would spend money on an "arcade game"

BUT.... i also disagree with you... YES the CV play is a joke... the old style CV's took brains to drive... and WoWs insulted all CV drivers with the "new" style of driving a warship... like driving a flying warship.

In this case, WoWs saw the money to be made from deciding to cater to the dumb players rather than fixing CV's the right way... in fact, they DID turn CV's into an arcade version of the game, or, adding a mini game for the kids while the adults played the ship trying to dodge everything thrown at them! This resulted NOT in a "CV rework" but a "Game rework" as they screwed with EVERYTHING to keep the kids happy.

So now... one catapult on a cruiser can launch up to 4 fighters in split second and they called THAT "balancing" the game! Unlimited number of planes also was very unrealistic but hey, the clueless who couldn't manage that loved it...

No CV captain would EVER be allowed to leave the bridge of his ship to go off and fly a mission... that is the silliest thing EVER!

Sorry, but they ruined the game with the new CV's... they sold out us loyal CV players who liked using their brains while driving CV's.... the decision to go with the new game play was a financial decision.... and submarines are headed the same way... I suspect after the subs are "balanced"... this game will actually be be classed as an arcade game with all references to the word "historical" being removed....

So, you cannot call it an "aracde game"..... not just YET!

I'm so old to this game Kitakami is still on my mind.  The first 5 updates were purely against Shimakaze and I remember when they announced the aviation cruiser Tone that we never got because they couldn't fix any of their crap.  They went the arcade route because they knew that their game was to much work to fix the right way and now they can use all their issues and discrepancies to say its an arcade not simulator because they know [edited] is nowhere close to being done or having a decent game for ships.  They have a monopoly.

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14 hours ago, Crucis said:

What a load of crap.

RTS CV's were massively overpowered.  Furthermore, the RTS style only catered to the unicum level gamer.   Even merely average players stood no chance in heII of contributing because the RTS play style favored those who were capable of multitasking.  At least with the rework FPS style every CV player has a chance to contribute without having some unicum player come along and wipe him right off the map at every turn.

The only insults here are those you're throwing at less than spectacular CV players with your obnoxiously elitist attitudes.

 

Massively over powered Were you even around then? Starters, you had a limited number of planes, when they were gone, all you could really do was ram an enemy ship.

And you dare say the current CV's are better for that reason?

Sure, fine, you go on thinking what you want.

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3 hours ago, Jet_set117 said:

I'm so old to this game Kitakami is still on my mind.  The first 5 updates were purely against Shimakaze and I remember when they announced the aviation cruiser Tone that we never got because they couldn't fix any of their crap.  They went the arcade route because they knew that their game was to much work to fix the right way and now they can use all their issues and discrepancies to say its an arcade not simulator because they know [edited] is nowhere close to being done or having a decent game for ships.  They have a monopoly.

I meant this, at the start, the game was more like a simulation in the way it looked and played. CV's now play like an arcade game, BUT, its just one aspect of the game. With Subs make it more of an arcade game?

Lets wait and see.... its getting closer and closer to the point where at least 50.1% of the game will soon be, or can be classed as arcade game. we are getting there... Even then, you certainly cannot class a flying warship as even remotely like a strategy game.... its purely an arcade game... even a simulation would have a cockpit view... so yes, its much more arcade than anything.

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28 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

Massively over powered Were you even around then? Starters, you had a limited number of planes, when they were gone, all you could really do was ram an enemy ship.

And you dare say the current CV's are better for that reason?

Sure, fine, you go on thinking what you want.

I have been playing WoWS since Open Beta.  Case Closed.

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

I have been playing WoWS since Open Beta.  Case Closed.

Case closed? REALLY?

fact is, its still your opinion VS mine, in which case, there IS no case... we are ALL entitled to an opinion AND to express them and even if you'd only been playing for a day, and i used that argument against you that I'd been playing longer... it means nothing... sure... it DOES mean something but NOt when it comes to the sharing of opinions. I mention, at times, that I've been playing right from the word get go as it somewhat helps my opinion, in comes ways, but it doesn't automatically mean your opinion is always right... or that you automatically win all discussions based on that fact. That is a very juvenile attitude to take, its like the "my daddy is better than your daddy...." arguments kids have. I mention it because it means I have knowledge of what the problems are, now and then... but get right down to it... its still an opinion and you are entitled to express it... but don't start with this nonsense about "case closed"...

Besides... we are not the only two here, everyone is allowed to have and express an opinion.

Unless you can actually add to the debate as to why no changes are needed, I guess you're done because the length of time you have played is not a valid end to a debate.

 

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6 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

Massively over powered Were you even around then? Starters, you had a limited number of planes, when they were gone, all you could really do was ram an enemy ship.

And you dare say the current CV's are better for that reason?

Sure, fine, you go on thinking what you want.

I want a dev to logically tell me why CVs were changed,  a good CV knew how to win the game before starting because it was all about ship stats weaknesses and strengths.  If they gave me a cockpit view and actually had it fly like a plane I probably wouldn't complain as much.  They ruined British CVs with only one torp per drop which is pretty worthless.  But unlike other ships CVs can run out of planes if they were careful AA was a big factor and when I was learning I've ran out of planes before which made learning hard but it helped me understand what ships to avoid.  CVs were as balanced as you could make it.  In real life CVs would be no where near the actual engagement about 200 miles out from the battleships.  So OP would be making them untouchable till they are the last ship available.

Edited by Jet_set117

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