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Hapa_Fodder

TST SUBMARINE TESTING

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https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/public-test/submarine-testing/

Please leave feedback for Submarine testing below.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

If you have any bugs to report, you can submit them here after the patch goes live.

PLEASE LEAVE FEEDBACK BELOW

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Hapa, I still actually have the CV TST from 2018/19 in my GC, should I delete that first before downloading the Sub TST?

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It seems that sub torpedo homing is inconsistent.  I found a stationary AFK cruiser and figured it would be an easy kill.  I pinged and launched 2 torp salvos.  I kept the target pinged the whole time the torps were on the way.  1 salvo homed in correctly, the other did not home in at all.  Since the guy was AFK and not moving, I was able to repeat this after reloading, and the same thing happened.  Is this a bug or intentional design?

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  1. Every game I've played has gone long because a submarine somewhere on the map stayed alive. Something has to be done about this delay-of-game.
  2. Sub vs. Sub combat needs a major upgrade. It's inconsistent, the torpedoes don't seem to work, and takes forever. The subs don't even move fast enough underwater to ram each other, they just touch and lose a handful of HP at a time.
  3. Since the targeting zones on ships are much smaller, the game should allow target lock and tracking again. Aiming the ping really sucks with the lack of depth perception underwater. My graphics settings are maxed.
  4. What is the point of the G key? It's very frustrating to not be able to see underwater terrain while driving or aiming; why do I have to push a key or look at the minimap to tell whether there's an island between me and my target? That kind of thing should be immediately obvious.
  5. Depth charges damage surface ships. Hilarious but no.
  6. Depth charges damage surfaced SUBS. I like this change, please keep it.
  7. Submarine gameplay in general seems hollow and does not enhance the overall game experience. It's like empty calories. Please re-examine the PURPOSE and EFFECT of submarines on the gameplay dynamic, because right now they do not contribute to the flow or excitement of the game.
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I am confused. I deleted and re-downloaded the Public Test version of the game, and when I log in there are no subs. But the key battle and ships are still there. There is no "TST" game instance option, just the "Public Test" option.

Edit: Unlike all other pubic tests, you must access this one your though your non-test account.

Edited by MollyGodiva

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Second session feedback:

  1. Max depth consumable is unneeded in the game. Submarines are already impossible to damage most of the time, and surface ships -- especially destroyers -- assume huge risks to get within ASW range. If they manage to execute a proper attack against those odds, there should be no get-out-of-jail button on the submarine end.
  2. Aiming at a submarine at periscope depth is very confusing because of the way the crosshair aligns with the "stem" indicating the submarine's position. If I put the crosshair at the end of the stem (where it appears to touch the ocean surface), I'm actually shooting short. Please adjust this.
  3. Enemy submarines only show their depth status when target locked. As far as I could see, there's no way to tell the depth of a friendly sub. Because of this, I can't tell whether it's safe to shoot torpedoes over a friendly sub or not. It's also very annoying to have to swing the guns and camera around constantly to check the depth of enemy subs to see whether I can shoot them. Submarine depth should be shown for all subs, all the time, when Alternative Battle Interface is set to Full. Minimap sub icons should indicate whether a submarine is surfaced or submerged.
  4. Submarine gameplay is BORING. All you do is get within range of an enemy ship, then repeatedly launch the forward tubes while backing up and pinging. That's fun for about 5 minutes, then you realize that's all there is to it.
  5. Submarine gameplay is SHALLOW. There is no tactical depth to the submarine experience. I don't feel like a silent hunter, I feel like a torpedo turret. Where's the strategic investment? Where's the big emotional or in-game payoff?
  6. Submarines are slow, and slow down the entire game. It's everything I disliked from the Kansas experience, except you don't even get to angle armor or shoot cross-map. Thought 24 knots and 40 second reload was bad? Try 11 knots and 80 seconds. Then wait an extra 5 minutes for the game to cap out while the last sub on the enemy team camps out on the ocean floor.
  7. Minor stuff:
    • Subs have too much battery. I never felt like I ran low or needed to surface.
    • It's hard to see which section of my ship has been locked on by a sub ping, on some camos.
    • I have no idea what makes subs appear on the hydrophone, versus not.
    • The depth charge plane view is nice, but messes up my camera zoom levels afterward.
Edited by Edgecase
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I've only experienced one "prime time" session on this submarine iteration so far. These are my thoughts so far with one day play time and I plan to update this as I continue to test. None the less here are my thoughts (in no specific order but I will do my best to format it nicely)

 

Feedback: Submarines are better but still require minor tweaking, and there are also some quality of life changes/desires that I hope are taken into consideration.

Submarine Thoughts and Desires:

  • Thought: Submarine underwater visuals are pleasing
    • Desire: Keep it the same
    •  
  • Thought: The sonar ping is also pleasing to the eye and fun to use when searching for enemy submarines
    • Desire: Keep it the same
    •  
  • Thought: The torp laser is nice to get a general idea of where the torps will go when launched
    • Desire: Keep the laser indicator present when in periscope view underwater so we have a better idea of the direction our torpedoes will launch
      • Feedback: When trying to attack enemy ships underwater, attempting to maneuver the submarine hull to launch torpedoes at a better angle often results in me over or under launching the torpedoes in relation to the target. Even with homing, it makes it tricky to land proper hits. I would like to see that underwater torpedo laser brought over to the zoomed in camera view as well to help better gauge the torpedo launch angles.
      •  
  • Thought: Sub vs Sub warfare is tedious and at times frustrating when you can't go undetected or kill the enemy submarine
    • Desire 1: Allow submarines to go completely undetected at a range of values (ex: 30m-50m, 40m-50m, (or when max depth 50m-80m is used)) so submarines have some form of escape. In exchange allow it so submarines cannot detect friendly or enemy submarines and ships at this depth. Also disable all ability to shoot torpedoes at this depth so it is made more clear that this depth is used only for moving around undetected/escaping.
    • Desire 2: Another option would be to allow a submarine to go completely undetected from the depth of 30m-50m and 50m-80m, when moving at 1/4 speed or lower
      • Feedback for both desires: It is frustrating when once detected via proximity by enemy sub or surface ship, it is impossible to go undetected/escape. The enemy submarine will just follow you around trying to torp you and it allows the enemy to have a constant location to drop depth charges. For once, it feels like submarines have no counterplay in this scenario. It also results in little damage gained for either side and results in mostly wasting time.
      •  
  • Thought: Submarine camera between 6m-10m is annoying when trying to see the surface and get information
    • Desire: Please add a toggle button (like AA on/off) that we can bind, which function is to raise a periscope and and allow the zoomed in camera view to be as if we were on the surface. This would only be available to use between the depth of 6m-10m
      • Feedback: The camera view when between 6m-10m is annoying because the screen is mainly underwater while so close to the surface. A periscope option would be nice for both immersion and information gathering (since I would be able to see the surface again)
      •  
  • Thought: The submarine dive/ascend times are nice but still may need a little tweaking
    • Desire: Play with the values to see if any adjustments can be made.
      • Feedback: I know each nation has different dive/ascend times but in conjunction with the camera view issue above at 6m-10m, sometimes it feels too slow just to go up or down a few meters, in certain scenarios. I understand this was changed due to the previous invulnerability exploit and I do admit that the current dive times feel nice and more, "realistic", for lack of a better word, but sometimes its frustrating when trying to move forward with an attack at full speed and not being able to clearly see.
      •  
  • Thought: Submarines cant escape planes that follow you on the surface when the CV is dead and the planes are last alive
    • Desire: Enable the use of the deck gun as secondaries and AA
      • Feedback: When trying to traverse the surface level and there is an dead CV but still a player controlling the last of the planes, it results in them keeping you permanently spotted with no ability to shoot them down. The use of a deck gun would at least allow us to shoot down the planes and traverse on the surface at full speed to cover more ground when the need to move across the map arises. It also helps encourage submarines to go to the surface or use the surface level more often. Lastly, it would help if used as secondaries to shorten the prolonged sub verse sub battle when only two subs are left alive.
      •  
  • Thoughts: Submarine gameplay feels kind of slow, sometimes
    • Desire: I'm honestly not sure the solution is. Limit the amounts of DDs to two per match and one sub per match? Make the maps bigger and add more than twelve per side? More consistency for submarines in general?
      • Feedback: Submarines feel like they are often all or nothing right now. Perhaps this is due to my lack of experience and playtime in this test sessions iteration but most games I either do good damage or no damage, often wasting time chasing/being chased by other submarines. I'm not sure what the solution to this is and this thought may just be more of a "me" problem so I will leave this as a debatable topic depending on point of view.
      • Feedback 2: Throughout testing different strategies often dictate how the match will feel. Play aggressive in subs and get some damage but often result in sub vs sub combat while being infinitely spotted. Playing aggressive resulted in shorter lives with me killing multiple subs until the enemy team was able to suppress and kill me with depth charges. Likewise, playing passive and mainly taking longer range shots while doing some recon often resulted in lower damage but longer life. I still feel there is something that could be better here but I still cannot provide what may be the solution to this issue.
      •  
  • Thought: This is a touchy thought but in some cases I think citadels do too much damage
    • Desire: Adjust citadel damage in tier 6 to be lower and increase it like normal as we get to tier 8 and finally 10.
      • Feedback: Even playing as a submarine and surface ship, some citadel damages feel too high. This can obviously be tweaked whenever if overperforming but as a surface ship, trying to shoot other surface ships often distracts one and leads to taking massive damage. Especially when the ping is masked by a fire. (We will discuss this below) As a submarine it feels too powerful (for me at least) given the tier we are testing in. Again this is debatable depending on the view so I will leave it as a "me" problem.
      •  
  • Thought: Submarine mechanics need a better more through explanation with various examples
    • Desire: Better in game examples or tutorials of all the submarine mechanics not fully explained well.
      • Feedback: The controls for submarines are fine but some other areas need better explaining. An example of this is how the submarine vs submarine detection works. Another is the question of, do we get detected when an enemy submarine or ship is in range and we use sonar? There just isn't the clarity to fully understand and realize the mechanics in place to utilize submarines to the best of their abilities. Again, it could just be a "me" problem depending on point of view.

 

 

Surface Ships Thoughts and Desires:

  • Thought: The way the submarine mechanic works, it is nearly impossible to shoot/damage a submarine that is above 10m since I dont know where to aim
    • Desire: Add a Green oval on the ocean above the enemy submarine to give the player a better indication of where the submarine hull is when it is not visible on the surface but at "surface level" (above 10m)
      • Feedback: Surface ships have no point of reference when shooting shells at a "surface level" submarine since the hull is still below the ocean. A green oval like the dive bomber reticle but above the enemy submarine would help in targeting enemy submarines with surface ships guns
      •  
  • Thought: It would be nice to have a mini map range circle for the max range we can use depth charge planes out to
    • Desire: Allow surface ships to see the max range of the Depth Charge planes to they know when the earliest range they can launch them to put pressure on the enemy submarine is.
      • Feedback: As a BB it was annoying to figure out what the range of the depth charge plane was for the first few games.
      •  
  • Thought: Do PBY depth charge planes spot un-detected surface ships?
    • Desire: Find out if this works
      • Feedback: As a DD hunting subs in my smoke and also CLs hunting DDs, I cannot tell if I was spotted by players using the Depth Charge planes as infinite spotting planes. If this is the case PBY depth charge planes should not be able to spot.
      •  
  • Thought: When my ship has multiple fires and I am trying to also shoot an enemy surface ship, the double pin on my hull gets obstructed by the flames animation and my ship hull in general
    • Desire: A few new UI indicators like "Hydro", "Radar", "CV Spotted", etc. for all surface ships. These will say, "Submarine Located/Spotted", "Submarine Torpedoes Locked", and "Citadel Vulnerable". They wording can be changed but the concept is what matters. These warnings can even have a 5s-10s window before disappearing.
      • Feedback: When a ship is on fire and the player is focusing on shooting enemy ships, sometimes the submarine's highlighted ping section becomes washed out and hard to notice. Adding these UI indicators with color coating can help the player still maintain better situational awareness. The wording can be changed but if a submarine lock appears in yellow and a citadel lock appears in red, it is still up to the player to maintain awareness but doesn't rely on strictly hull visuals. Also if there is a timer for the warnings, it helps balance player awareness with the submarines opportunity.
      • Feedback 2: There still needs to be additional UI indicators and even sounds such as a sonar ping hitting the hull or something. In multiple of my matches, I have been pinged once or twice but based on my camera view of the other side of the ship, I could not see the ping and thus wasn't aware I was even being targeted.

 

Other Thoughts and Side notes

  • None so far, but time will tell

 

Overall Thoughts:

  • Thought: Submarines are still fun and tricky to master. While I would like to see the tweaks above implemented, this is still the best test iteration out of the bunch (my opinion of course).
  • Thought 2: I still enjoy submarines but my opinions listed above still stand for the most point. In my continuation of test I often found myself having fun but still coming back to the same conclusions listed above.
    • Feedback: Overall while I still continue testing, I just wanted to highlight that the changes made so far have been awesome and while some areas could use tweaking, the iteration we have now has been fun. The somewhat improved UI is nice. The guiding path for torps is nice. The marker for your CV when using planes is a good touch. I look forward to seeing where this goes in the future. The art department has also knocked it out of the park with the submarine models and underwater environment.

To Be Continued...

Edited by A_Basic_Potato
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Well i have to say i truly hope this is released soon with just a couple of tweeeks this addition of subs is awesome, not just the fact of having another element of surprise but the action and fun is beyond my expectations and am very pleased,  did notice when fully ascending to surface the prompt tells you your at maxium depth just small stuff like that I noticed, the play of game itself with the new HUD with the new alert and caution display and as a cv player excellent to see where your cv is at all times, there was no stuttering of the aircraft or game play in general and yes you can counter attack and sink a sub with all the different tools you have I sank 1 and lots of damage on others  vessels fired when they where suppose too and not delayed which are all issues i myself have had as of late playing on both the NA servers that is why my anticipation for this release excellent job team gaming center!

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Spotting mechanics with submarines need to be made a LOT clearer, right now it's pretty confusing trying to spot them.

Upon getting a hydrophone location for an enemy sub, I chase it down, pop hydro-acoustic search to detect it, and then drop depth charges on top of it doing some damage. However the submarine instantly goes undetected while I am still detected by the submarine due to the 2km assured detection range. How can an assured detection range be assured for only one person? If he is within 2km of me, why can he see me (and provide perfect spotting for his whole team) while I can't see him at all, even with hydro running while I'm right on top of him?

Also...even if a submerged submarine can detect me above him like that, how exactly does a submarine communicate my location to his teammates when they are 15km away and he is underwater? Sure this kind of  team-spotting system makes sense for surface ships that can communicate with each other via signals or radio to tell each other where the enemy is, but a submerged submarine should absolutely not be able to magically communicate your position to their backline of cruisers and BBs if they are the only one spotting you. At the very least they should be required to surface in order to relay that kind of information...

This isn't the only example of an issue I've noticed a lot today during play on the TST server. Submarines seem to benefit from the 2km assured detection range at very odd times, while a surface ship that is within 2km of the submarine still won't detect it. I've also been detected via the assured detection range icon while being completely certain no submarine or any other ship was that close to me, it has popped up at some seemingly random times.

In one case I was hiding behind an island capping a point and was detected via 2km assured detectability range by a submerged sub on the other side of the island. I only found out what was detecting me after going around the island and practically running into him because again while he could see me within 2km, I couldn't see him. So once again the "assured" detection range of 2km only seems to be assured for one person in the engagement.

In short I think the way spotting works with submarines needs a big rework, you can't just try to transplant surface-spotting mechanics onto an underwater sub and expect it to work.

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The torpedos I drop for the submarine hardly ever do any damage. It appears that the planes nearly drop what looks like a 100 freakin torpedoes yet all miraculously miss even when the sub is within the bracket. Also sucks when you're just battling it out with other ships and 6 or 8 torpedoes just surface with about 4 seconds of a reaction time and still, no sub detected. Make them resurface for air more often so I can lay the f***** cannons on em and sink them once and for all and not have to rely on thiese hinky dink toys r us  torpedoes that dont do anything 

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Everything is looking good except sub v sub combat. Me and another sub spent ten minutes shooting at each other and I even rubbed him without getting a ram. Regardless of matching depth, torps consistently missed, didnt home, or didn’t adjust depth. It leads to some stand still moments when other ships aren’t around to assist either side. I honestly thought the previous version of sub v sub combat was awesome. Had to dive and dodge to evade sub torps. If the homing was too strong vs surface ships is there a way to get different values? I don’t mind weak homing vs surface ships but sub v sub needs a tweak.

Thoroughly enjoying the BB depth charges. Think they’re in a great spot as far as damage and ease of use goes. They take skill to use well and avoid. Well done.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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The only 3 things id say is
1: fix the bug where subs cant hurt other subs and all torps fired at them simply pass through each-other.  someone else said it perfect. the previous Test 3 from 9.5 or w/e was perfect for sub v sub. now its bugged and even with direct hits the torps just pass/clip through enemy subs doing nothing.

2: the response time of the surface ships depth-charge planes needs to be halved.  it takes too long for the planes to come in once called, and its too clunky to use.

3: the G thing is pointless. change it back to the previous test where it does it automatically.

Other then that subs are perfect and ready for the live game. Hopefully we can have them out next month/patch =)


Oh Btw please ignore the Submarine haters. the subs are fun and add alot of desperately needed balnace to the game by simply existing. Plz dont change that.

Like i said. just fix1-3 and they are good to go. been waiting too long for these and i cant wait to get em on live =)

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My personal thoughts on Subs and their interaction with other ships:

I personally think the ignoring torpedo protection mechanic is way too overpowered. A BB can do everything right, and all it take is you to do two clicks and decent aiming and you can pretty much take a BB out of the game, and its only tier 6! I think if you kept the homing, that's fine, but scale back damage, and remove citadelling from Subs. You have a good reload speed, which is acceptable for the torpedoes as their your only defense, but scale the damage back along with that citadelling and it'll be more balanced in that department.

I think having the battery able to recharge underwater is just stupid. I've sat all game underwater, with little consequence and can torp all day long and ruin player's matches. It is unfair, and while its fun to be underwater, I think having a higher battery output, but keep the cost of the pinging, and making it so you have to surface instead would be much better. The counter play is obnoxious and boring as even at surface level (4-10 m depth) you can't properly shoot a sub because its just a little icon... Forcing a submarine to surface when their out of battery would help alleviate the frustration of people sitting at low depth all game!

As well, most Battleship players in general, 99% of the time use AP.  I sincerely think having them at least able to do overpens on Sub at 0-10 m depth would be a healthy addition too, because if you have to load HE just to sink a sub, the HE meta will come back even worse and also drawback on BBs playing like their supposed to, with Armor-Piercing shells to counter Cruisers and BBs, and punish those who broadside.

Furthermore, I think the depth charge plane consumable on heavy cruisers and BBs need to be sped up a bit, as its too slow and the submarine can lazily and easily avoid it like its a slug, its not a big threat... Please increase the speed of the planes dropping them or something, its just not viable enough. Lastly, please give us more information on screen when we are pinged by a submarine! Like when you're detected by hydro OR radar you get different icons for it. Its hard to see the ping, especially the double ping when you're on fire, and please give an audible notification, as well as a small text notification on screen! That way surface ship players can know they're being targeted by a submarine's homing. 

One last thing is I feel like matches with 3 subs on each side makes the matches feel a little empty or boring, please consider adding another player or two, for 14v14, and 2 sub limit. I feel like that would keep the surface warfare like it has been but add a few submarines to mix it in. This might offset some of the map play because they're built for 12v12, but please consider it as surface warfare can be boring otherwise.

All in all, I enjoyed some of the changes of the submarines play and counterplay, but there needs to be an emphasis on fixing some of the aforementioned things above. I am excited to see where submarines go, but please take the time to balance them properly. Thank you for the test.

Edit: Another thought I just had was, please make the pinging reload longer, or make the pinging radius narrower, its too easy to get two pings and there's no challenge in scoring them.

Edited by SgtSqueegee
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Server should be up? not working for me..

 

edit.. logged in at 6:07 PST.. just a little late

 

Edited by mumphred

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i loaded the PT and everything seems fine but when I login I don't see anything about subs. I did not see a TST game instance is this an issue?

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finally got in to try a few    still trying to figure out where they have improved anything still feels the same    and all those stupid new  buttons  everywhere  and most you cant even get into  with the usuall  server not avaliable at this time  .... 4 new ports  where i didnt see any    they all look the same as before . 

TST    you FAILED  again 

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1 minute ago, Slickrick915x said:

I logged into the PT but do not see anything about subs? What am I missing?

Subs are on a different test server called TST (that's the name that shows when you install it in the in WGC).

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2 minutes ago, Slickrick915x said:

I logged into the PT but do not see anything about subs? What am I missing?

Its the TST server not the PT server... DL the TST client and check when is the server open to play...

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2 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Subs are on a different test server called TST (that's the name that shows when you install it in the in WGC).

 

1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

Its the TST server not the PT server... DL the TST client and check when is the server open to play...

I dont have an option for TST when I try to add a server under the instance tab?

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1 minute ago, Slickrick915x said:

 

I dont have an option for TST when I try to add a server under the instance tab?

You have to be log in to your WGC account to see it.

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5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

 

You have to be log in to your WGC account to see it.

Okay i found it, thanks everyone it wont show up under the PT login either

 

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Well Happa if you want the submarine testing to be worthwhile you need to make it accessible and reasonable:
1) the times are totally unreasonable for those of us in the southern hemisphere. My time is UTC +13 or to play the test: 0200-0900 or 1400-1700. As a working person this is a waste of time and unreasonable.
2) Ping and rubber-banding. Where is your TST server based? I play normally on the NA server or SEA server where my ping is normally 95-110. Today I am trying play the TST server and I have pings 300-700 and literally unplayable.
3) With what little playing time I can access I find I need to earn 12000 base XP before I can access a submarine. What the H*** use is this.
I enjoyed playing the 1st round of testing. This is just totally useless and frustrating.
Your comments welcome.

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