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Venac

Petro buff?

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I was watching a stream the other day and one of the CC streamers said there was a possible Petro buff to pen angles. Was he joking or serious? He sure did not sound like he was joking...

Edited by Venac

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He may have just been comparing to standard pen angles for Russian cruisers.
I think I've heard that before as well about the Petro.
The buff is already there. It's not coming in the future.

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Petro, a T10 cruiser, have the same AP DPM as Konigsberg, a T5 cruiser and less HE DPM than a T4 Kuma

Do you think having T4 damage level at T10 is balanced and not in dire need of a buff?

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10 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Petro, a T10 cruiser, have the same AP DPM as Konigsberg, a T5 cruiser and less HE DPM than a T4 Kuma

Do you think having T4 damage level at T10 is balanced and not in dire need of a buff?

DPM is one part, usability is an other. Petto have Bismark level of penetration (on a cruiser!) and improve penetration angle, making her AP far more reliable than any other tech tree ship.

And a ship able to bow tank a Yamato with the freeboard of a destroyer need some flaws at some point.

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1 minute ago, Y_Nagato said:

DPM is one part, usability is an other. Petto have Bismark level of penetration (on a cruiser!) and improve penetration angle, making her AP far more reliable than any other tech tree ship.

And a ship able to bow tank a Yamato with the freeboard of a destroyer need some flaws at some point.

If penetration matters that much then Stalingrad would be a decent ship, but Stalingrad is garbage for the same reason.

The difference between Petro's guns and Bismarck's is overmatch. Bis OMs 25 which is a lot of cruisers at T8, this means that it can punish many ships of its tier regardless of angle.

Petro does not overmatch any cruiser at T10, not even Mino or Smolensk, which means that simple angling will force Petro to use HE and make it effectively a T4 cruiser's level of firepower.

 

Petro is tanky sure, but what good is tankiness when it can not do any damage? Pretty much every T10 beats the Petro including gun boat destroyers like Khaba

Petro is currently one of the worst T10s alongside Stalingrad, and its only uses are in competitive

You know what other ship is currently being used in competitive and was unjustly nerfed multiple times because of it?

YueYang.

 

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4 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

If penetration matters that much then Stalingrad would be a decent ship, but Stalingrad is garbage for the same reason.

The difference between Petro's guns and Bismarck's is overmatch. Bis OMs 25 which is a lot of cruisers at T8, this means that it can punish many ships of its tier regardless of angle.

Petro does not overmatch any cruiser at T10, not even Mino or Smolensk, which means that simple angling will force Petro to use HE and make it effectively a T4 cruiser's level of firepower.

 

Petro is tanky sure, but what good is tankiness when it can not do any damage? Pretty much every T10 beats the Petro including gun boat destroyers like Khaba

Petro is currently one of the worst T10s alongside Stalingrad, and its only uses are in competitive

You know what other ship is currently being used in competitive and was unjustly nerfed multiple times because of it?

YueYang.

 

It’s still penetration able to citadel battleships, with a shorter fuse to not overmatch other ships.

 

Tankiness is always good. If you can place yourself in the heat and survive, you are more useful for your team than some kiter. Also, having a ship (x) beat you in HE dpm means nothing really when it cannot pen the majority of your ship.
 

Petro have the second higher win rate in random, and in the middle in average damage (above Hindenburg, Zao and Des Moines). So useless? 

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2 hours ago, Venac said:

I was watching a stream the other day and one of the CC streamers said there was a possible Petro buff to pen angles. Was he joking or serious? He sure did not sound like he was joking...

Petropavlovsk was just nerfed in the current patch. She had her concealment increased, and is no longer capable of using her radar from stealth. Riga also got a similar nerf, but also got a 0.5 second reload buff.

There has been no official announcement of any upcoming buff to Soviet CA AP pen angles. The new ships already have improved AP in this regard, and WG is unlikely to buff them further.

Edited by Nevermore135

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29 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

It’s still penetration able to citadel battleships, with a shorter fuse to not overmatch other ships.

 

Tankiness is always good. If you can place yourself in the heat and survive, you are more useful for your team than some kiter. Also, having a ship (x) beat you in HE dpm means nothing really when it cannot pen the majority of your ship.
 

Petro have the second higher win rate in random, and in the middle in average damage (above Hindenburg, Zao and Des Moines). So useless? 

Thats not how the game works. This is why tutorials are needed.

The way the checks work is in this order:

OM > Ric > Pen

In other words, if you dont have OM, all the enemy ship have to do is angle at Ric and it doesnt matter if your pen is 10 or 100000 you will bounce. Period.

Same thing with the fuse, I assume you meant to not overpen, but to overpen you have to penetrate first, and against any player with a brain you will have to resort to HE, which fuses upon impact regardless.

 

And your second sentence tells me you have no idea how to win games... Between a cruiser that kites and a cruiser that tanks, the former is at least twice as useful as the latter. Please stop making things up.

Petro have normal HE pen, so yes a ship (x) will beat it because it can pen just as well as Petro. In fact, a lot of other T10 cruisers have even better pen, such as Hinden and Goliath with 1/4 instead of 1/6

 

Finally, the last sentence is simple statistics. Server win rate and damage mean absolutly nothing because a ship's performance is not only based on how good it is, but also how good the captain is.

A unicum in the Petro will still outperform a potato in the Des Moines.

If you want an example of this, just look at the stats for Alabama and Alabama ST

They are the exact same ship, yet they have a huge difference in win rate and damage, and according to your theory Alabama ST is the most overpowered T8 BB and standard Alabama is one of the worst T8 BB

 

So yes, Petro is one of the worst T10 cruisers, do you think that a super unicum would not analyze each and every ship and have the credibility to determine if a ship is good or not?

 

 

Edited by DolphinPrincess
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lol, imagine thinking the petro is bad and needs a buff

someone get this kid a helmet

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57 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

DPM is one part, usability is an other. Petto have Bismark level of penetration (on a cruiser!) and improve penetration angle, making her AP far more reliable than any other tech tree ship.

And a ship able to bow tank a Yamato with the freeboard of a destroyer need some flaws at some point.

   This.

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1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Petro is currently one of the worst T10s alongside Stalingrad, and its only uses are in competitive

Do you think these ships are balanceable for both though?

I think Stalingrad is a lost cause already, because we know how WG is with nerfing/changing premiums, and steAl ships are a step higher.
But Petro is at least able to be changed, hopefully in a way to nerf its competitive use while buffing randoms, if thats even possible.

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4 minutes ago, anaamonous said:

lower freeboard would do the trick.

At this point you'll just be making the first russian T10 submarine.

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                        damage                  
SN CA 10   Alexander Nevsky 2398 7639 3.19 49.85 0.05 50.10 1809 76976 0.71 4.12 4.36 10.76 41.89 1.22 1146107 22402 34.68
SN CA 10 P Moskva 3067 10337 3.37 49.26 0.04 50.70 1587

65953

0.59 3.81 4.39 7.38 31.75 0.86 1297457 22293 38.31
SN CA 10   Petropavlovsk 3495 16720 4.78 52.70 0.05 47.25 1885 74295 0.80 5.47 6.88 8.24 37.00 1.27 1401427 26204 40.81
SN CA 10 P STALINGRAD #2 0 0 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.00 0 0 0.00
SN CA 10 P Smolensk 4146 14876 3.59 48.69 0.02 51.29 1721 79841 0.78 3.90 8.08 8.23 36.75 1.23 783218 15107 30.83
SN CA 10 P Stalingrad 1851 8111 4.38 54.42 0.04 45.54 1958 87793 0.89 5.04 4.72 6.10 37.17 1.42 1392895 24877 39.81

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tHe PeTrOpAvLoVsK nEeDs A bUfF  :Smile_trollface:

People be like 

ypnthZb.gif

People that got rekt by Petropavlovsk in BBs getting citadel multiple times and not been able to do same to it 

HLis7dz.gif

 

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2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Petro, a T10 cruiser, have the same AP DPM as Konigsberg, a T5 cruiser and less HE DPM than a T4 Kuma

Do you think having T4 damage level at T10 is balanced and not in dire need of a buff?

I can't take anything you post seriously after this.

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1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Thats not how the game works. This is why tutorials are needed.

The way the checks work is in this order:

OM > Ric > Pen

In other words, if you dont have OM, all the enemy ship have to do is angle at Ric and it doesnt matter if your pen is 10 or 100000 you will bounce. Period.

Same thing with the fuse, I assume you meant to not overpen, but to overpen you have to penetrate first, and against any player with a brain you will have to resort to HE, which fuses upon impact regardless.

 

And your second sentence tells me you have no idea how to win games... Between a cruiser that kites and a cruiser that tanks, the former is at least twice as useful as the latter. Please stop making things up.

Petro have normal HE pen, so yes a ship (x) will beat it because it can pen just as well as Petro. In fact, a lot of other T10 cruisers have even better pen, such as Hinden and Goliath with 1/4 instead of 1/6

 

Finally, the last sentence is simple statistics. Server win rate and damage mean absolutly nothing because a ship's performance is not only based on how good it is, but also how good the captain is.

A unicum in the Petro will still outperform a potato in the Des Moines.

If you want an example of this, just look at the stats for Alabama and Alabama ST

They are the exact same ship, yet they have a huge difference in win rate and damage, and according to your theory Alabama ST is the most overpowered T8 BB and standard Alabama is one of the worst T8 BB

 

So yes, Petro is one of the worst T10 cruisers, do you think that a super unicum would not analyze each and every ship and have the credibility to determine if a ship is good or not?

 

 

If you test it. Then use it in competition, extensively, then you probably are either a victim of your own success, or you failed to realize that exploiting a ship to your advantage actually hurts the ship.

Because some tester stated that the tests are conducted with unicums and potatoes to represent the players.

But data is data isn't it?

Potatoes do just as good as the unicums in the same ship.

This is the chickens finally coming home to roost.

WG decided to balance it.

That was no big surprise to me.

Over use of a ship and others capitalized? Yes.

It impacts WG and you don't mess with balance just so a select few that have the ship can reap the benefits.

There are no free rides. And here are the consequences.

This is no surprise that this happens because all gaming companies do it too.

Mess with them, they take away the toys.

WG wants revenue. It's a business. Try to circumvent that and they will nerf the ship.

Stalingrad has shown how over use became abuse. Because winning is not even required to reap benefits if you survive the whole match farming in a Stalingrad.

And that is bad for the game. Winning a match is important to players. I have seen angry Randoms players come in co-op fuming over the absurd Stalingrad camping and the Petro was just as bad if not worse.

That is par for the course in cruiser testing.

Stalingrad, Petro, Venezia.

If it's bad for the game, it has to be fixed right?

There are other ships like this.

Expect a lot of this. As long as I have been here. I have seen multiple changes to ships. All for balance, all for players to further enjoy. Sometimes, it's not great, but it's always a constant thing.

Change is always good eventually.

I wonder if my other prediction will come to pass as well?🤔

If anyone wants to know, just look my posts up. They are observations and have no basis on data, but observations only.

It's not that I am right. Anyone, if they see the obvious, would have come to the same conclusion as I have given the years playing and such.

Is my data being used on certain ships for balance?

Only WG can answer that as I play many ships. But I like to think that many players are just like me. We sail all of them if we have the time.

It had to be done.

Balance has struck yet again.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

The way the checks work is in this order:

OM > Ric > Pen

In other words, if you dont have OM, all the enemy ship have to do is angle at Ric and it doesnt matter if your pen is 10 or 100000 you will bounce. Period.

Same thing with the fuse, I assume you meant to not overpen, but to overpen you have to penetrate first, and against any player with a brain you will have to resort to HE, which fuses upon impact regardless.

Yes, you are right in the formula. But you ignore my point: OM is irrelevant for cruisers since no tech tree cruisers can overmatch other tier 10 cruisers. So you end up with ric and pen to see how useful is an AP shell in comparison to other cruisers. And Petro have better Ric angle than the others (except British and US CA) and better pen than all. Add to it that it retain its penetration and speed longer, making it able to use it at longer range (albeit with lesser accuracy).

 

And the pen do matters. Where other cruisers need to aim for the upper belt of battleship (thus cutting their AP dpm) Petro can aim to the main belt and get citadels.

2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

And your second sentence tells me you have no idea how to win games... Between a cruiser that kites and a cruiser that tanks, the former is at least twice as useful as the latter. Please stop making things up.

HE heals more than AP damage, and kiter tends to leave cap/ focus on bb which holds less values. One example of that is Yoshino: one of the “Kiter” cruiser with the 5th damage in average, yet one of the worst win rate. Meanwhile the “bow in tanky” cruisers like Stalingrad, Petro and Moskva all do above average in win rate.

 

2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Petro have normal HE pen, so yes a ship (x) will beat it because it can pen just as well as Petro. In fact, a lot of other T10 cruisers have even better pen, such as Hinden and Goliath with 1/4 instead of 1/6

In such match up:

Petro front HE dpm: 84 546

Hindenburg front HE dpm: 91 800

Goliath front HE dpm: 74 844

 

yes they can get higher HE dpm by using their rear turrets, but that makes Petro able to punish them with AP. So yeah, not that outclassed in such situation. The only ships with a far better HE front dpm is Des Moines at 183k, but it does not pen 50mm so it makes the match up less one sided.

2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Finally, the last sentence is simple statistics. Server win rate and damage mean absolutly nothing because a ship's performance is not only based on how good it is, but also how good the captain is.

A unicum in the Petro will still outperform a potato in the Des Moines.

 If you want an example of this, just look at the stats for Alabama and Alabama ST

They are the exact same ship, yet they have a huge difference in win rate and damage, and according to your theory Alabama ST is the most overpowered T8 BB and standard Alabama is one of the worst T8 BB

Only, no. Your example is just bad: comparing the win rate of a gift ships to supertesters with one available for money to the public is not relevant. You have to compare apple with apple, and that include how the ships can be acquired. Yes, Stalingrad have an inflated win rate since only players doing CB and Ranked can have it. But Petro? Every potato can have it, and it does have over 170k match in the Na servers. Statistics wise, the number of match is high enough to make it a valid point of comparison, and to assume that those 171k game were not only unicum played match. So yeah, the win rate and damage becomes relevant in such case, albeit your point could stand for Goliath since it is still barely played.

 

2 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

So yes, Petro is one of the worst T10 cruisers, do you think that a super unicum would not analyze each and every ship and have the credibility to determine if a ship is good or not?

Your win rate or mine are irrelevant here. It is factual data, and you did not bring that much to support that it is “the worst tier 10” outside of “I am unicum, listen to me”.


 

Edited by Y_Nagato
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2 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

I think Stalingrad is a lost cause already, because we know how WG is with nerfing/changing premiums, 

The Stalingrad has already received several major nerfs, the ship just isn't over powered in its current state.  

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30 minutes ago, yashma said:

The Stalingrad has already received several major nerfs

I wasn't aware of anything post-release for Stalin.

Guess I wasn't playing when it happened.

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10 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I wasn't aware of anything post-release for Stalin.

Guess I wasn't playing when it happened.

They increased its fire duration (direct nerf), and the Stalingrad also took a substantial indirect nerf when they removed large caliber AP pens against DDs.

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4 minutes ago, yashma said:

They increased its fire duration (direct nerf), and the Stalingrad also took a substantial indirect nerf when they removed large caliber AP pens against DDs.

doesnt the last part literally only apply to bbs? i strongly remember that... and stalin still only takes a cruiser slot...

 

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17 minutes ago, yashma said:

They increased its fire duration (direct nerf), and the Stalingrad also took a substantial indirect nerf when they removed large caliber AP pens against DDs.

My point remains then, they won't directly nerf her.

Both those are class wide changes (Large cruisers former, completely unneeded DD buff latter)
That'd explain why I didn't seem aware of them.

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20 minutes ago, TobTorp said:

doesnt the last part literally only apply to bbs? i strongly remember that... and stalin still only takes a cruiser slot...

It applies to all the big gun calibers, aka BB gun sizes. The supercruisers all mount smaller BB guns, so they all felt it.

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