Commander training. ECXP VS Grind.

[Col_Nasty]

I wasn't long ago when I was celebrating my first 19 point commander. 

I now have 18.

I used each one to grow ECXP to make another in a ship I really loved to play and played those ships everyday.

like everyone said.. the lil bunnies bred like...well BUNNIES!

I now have some new tech tree ships that I want to build their commanders but at the same time, like many others I am hoarding ECXP in anticipation of the changes.

To my question...

Is it FASTER to use ECXP rather than grinding generically.

I must note that I use econ flags and the ships have either plenty of Camos or their own Perma Camo.

Just for an example I am now grinding the Petropav which is currently at 11pnts.  I have Victor Znamenshy in her.

I get bored playing the same ship over and over and over etc. so there's that as well.

 I know I can move him to a Premium ship and train him there but again that calls for playing the same ship over and over.

If this is the best way that's fine. I will just make sure I play that ship enough each day and get the grind on. 

Which is the best / fastest way you choose.

Any input is appreciated as always.

Col

 

[Fodder4U]

Using ECXP gets you to another 19pt who can then add to the pool.

[Col_Nasty]

1 minute ago, Fodder4U said:

Using ECXP gets you to another 19pt who can then add to the pool.

Yes I know , that's how I got to 18 of them.  Just seeing what way is best going forward.  I know some do them by grinding them.. it just seems  like it would take forever.

[Fodder4U]

IMO it is still the way to go especially when you have so many.

[HamptonRoads]

If you built the 19-point captain for a specific ship, that ship should generate better XP, than say a 17 or 18 point captain.  

[Estimated_Prophet]

3 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Yes I know , that's how I got to 18 of them.  Just seeing what way is best going forward.  I know some do them by grinding them.. it just seems  like it would take forever.

Don’t even know how many I have. Probably less than you Col.

There are a few I move around; Groz goes into Okhotnik, Murmansk, Makarovburg, and a few others, for example; but I’m also just as likely to throw some random 3 point captain into even a high tier ship because it’s cheaper to retrain them than someone with more skill points.

[z9_]

I can grind up a 10 pt capt in 4 hours, which is all you need for most ships.
A snowflake ship only needs a 1-3 pt capt.
Already have 19 pt capts in the ships I play all the time, so I've been hoarding.

With the coming cross-training, you only need 1 max capt per nation
and it will work in all your premiums, so there's a few dozen right there.

The way I do it is I borrow.
If I just got a T10 ship, and I know I'm gonna play the crap out of it,
I'll use ECXP to take it to 19 pts so that I can use those skills now,
and it will earn those points back by the time I'm through with it.

[Fodder4U]

Don't forget they are going to bump the commanders to 21 points so you will want as much ECXP as possible to make your favorite 19pt commanders maxed out again.

[Khafni]

@Col_Nasty we don't know what the rework will really look like yet. I'm building more until the end of October then saving for that "rainy day".

What I read from the initial post is that one captain can have four builds, BUT, he can only be specialized in one ship. So if you specialize him in your favorite ship or a ship you will grind then use his other builds with premiums you will be able to grind him faster. I may have some sitting at 19 points but, depending on the number of points to get to 20 and 21, working him back to max will not be that difficult.

WG sees that glut of ECXP and wants to get rid of it for us - and it will until we get all our captains maxed again. We might see another rework in three years, then.

[Khafni]

1 hour ago, z9_ said:

I can grind up a 10 pt capt in 4 hours, which is all you need for most ships.
A snowflake ship only needs a 1-3 pt capt.
Already have 19 pt capts in the ships I play all the time, so I've been hoarding.

With the coming cross-training, you only need 1 max capt per nation
and it will work in all your premiums, so there's a few dozen right there.

The way I do it is I borrow.
If I just got a T10 ship, and I know I'm gonna play the crap out of it,
I'll use ECXP to take it to 19 pts so that I can use those skills now,
and it will earn those points back by the time I'm through with it.

Heck, after the rework, a snowflake ship can sail "captainless".

[ZARDOZ_II]

1 minute ago, Khafni said:

WG sees that glut of ECXP and wants to get rid of it for us

I wish I had such a 'glut' of ECXP.  The skill rebork will really hurt those of us who don't.  

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

5 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Is it FASTER to use ECXP rather than grinding generically.

It isn't necessarily faster, but it's more fun/less "work" because the more 19pt captains you have, the greater the variety of ships and nations you can use and it doesn't become a boring trip to your own crucifixion over and over again.

Of course if you hit a grind that really rocks your socks, in a ship you're having so much fun in that you just can't put it down, there's no reason not to contribute to the captain's promotion that way.

 

[AdmiralThunder]

5 hours ago, Fodder4U said:

Using ECXP gets you to another 19pt who can then add to the pool.

for about a month and then WG is throwing a big  at us and changing the entire Capt system; from skills to points. So, getting another 19 right now means another you have to get to 21 in Dec. Better, IMO, to save as much ECXP as you can right now so you can at least get 1 or 2 back to "elite" status at 21 when WG  us all with this change.

I have 54 19pt Capt's I need to get back to elite status at 21 when this fercockta change takes place. Not doing anymore to 19 right now Not worth it.

[Rouxi]

I would save the cxp since the update is only 2 months away.

[AdmiralThunder]

17 minutes ago, Khafni said:

@Col_Nasty we don't know what the rework will really look like yet. I'm building more until the end of October then saving for that "rainy day".

What I read from the initial post is that one captain can have four builds, BUT, he can only be specialized in one ship. So if you specialize him in your favorite ship or a ship you will grind then use his other builds with premiums you will be able to grind him faster. I may have some sitting at 19 points but, depending on the number of points to get to 20 and 21, working him back to max will not be that difficult.

WG sees that glut of ECXP and wants to get rid of it for us - and it will until we get all our captains maxed again. We might see another rework in three years, then.

I personally don't believe this is a way to get rid of excess ECXP sitting around. It is a way to extend the grind for players (they want us grinding grinding grinding all the time - god forbid they let us play with what we already ground out and be happy - nope - you must continually grind and be miserable about it Comrade) and a way to earn more $$$ through Doubloon and Premium sales for them. Getting rid of excess ECXP is just their smoke and mirrors excuse.

JMHO.

[AdmiralThunder]

2 hours ago, z9_ said:

I can grind up a 10 pt capt in 4 hours, which is all you need for most ships.
A snowflake ship only needs a 1-3 pt capt.
Already have 19 pt capts in the ships I play all the time, so I've been hoarding.

With the coming cross-training, you only need 1 max capt per nation
and it will work in all your premiums, so there's a few dozen right there.

The way I do it is I borrow.
If I just got a T10 ship, and I know I'm gonna play the crap out of it,
I'll use ECXP to take it to 19 pts so that I can use those skills now,
and it will earn those points back by the time I'm through with it.

I don't think your ECXP hoard is the norm but rather it is the exception. I am sure lots of people have similar amounts or more but again I don't think it represents the average player's ECXP stock pile.. "Most" I think build some (say 1 million +/-) and then use it to boost a Capt up. I mean I have 54 19pt Capt's right now but I have 360+ ships. Not even close to getting all my Capt's to 19. I mean I could have sat on it and not used it and had 100 million by now but what is the point in that?

Got 2.5 Million now but only because I stopped using it to build it up for the change to 21.

[SkullCowboy_60]

No 19 pointers, I have a 17 and a 16 pointer (and a handful of 13/14/15's). I have 120,000ish ECXP and 800,000ish FXP. Also have just under 12500 RP's that could buy another 250,000 FXP. This would give me just enough to bump them both to 19 before the change and give me a start on getting more ECXP. Tempting but dunno if I should wait until we get more info on the coming skill rebork. And no, I have no current interest in playing the RB game, ships or gizmos. Same with FXP ships, well, maybe Alaska someday. Decisions.

[eviltane]

8 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Which is the best / fastest way you choose.

From a purely Min / Max  perspective since there is no Commander XP loss it is faster to boost a captain to 19 points with ECXP.  This pre supposes you will play him enough that you would have earned 19 PTs anyway. 

 

Reason being that the captain is better therefore you can do more damage, more wins, just live longer and do better.   Which in turn means that you will be earning more XP all along. 

Do keep in mind that this also increases the ECXP costs of moving captains between tech tree ships as you go up the lines. Personally  I do not worry about boosting a captain to 19 until tier 8 or sometimes 9.  

For now I recommend saving the ECXP so that you again have as many captains earning ECXP as possible. 

[Khafni]

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I personally don't believe this is a way to get rid of excess ECXP sitting around. It is a way to extend the grind for players (they want us grinding grinding grinding all the time - god forbid they let us play with what we already ground out and be happy - nope - you must continually grind and be miserable about it Comrade) and a way to earn more $$$ through Doubloon and Premium sales for them. Getting rid of excess ECXP is just their smoke and mirrors excuse.

JMHO.

I believe you are absolutely right! This is another way to make $$$ for WG. They know people are more than comfortable with their 19 pointers and upping the max points might encourage spending to get back to that "comfort zone". 

I will assess my plans for my 71 "captains of concern" when the rework is finalized and the info published.

[MannyD_of_The_Sea]

Well, mathematically, if you earn commander XP at the same rate whether you grind a captain, or spend ECXP on it, it all comes out the same...once you played it enough to grind out the ECXP you spent.

BUT, you have to consider the real possibility that the ECXP you spend, actually improves the commander’s performance, which actually helps that commander earn commander XP FASTER than if all the ECXP (think of it as potential or theoretical performance) were just left on the table.

Based on that, it is generally better to spend the ECXP... but spend it on a captain you will immediately be using.

It is also worthwhile to consider that there nay be a sweet spot for spending ECXP, a best “bang for your buck” point. Consider:

You have 600,000 ECXP to spend. Your choices are: (1) You have a new can’t-miss ship, and a zero-point captain on it. That 600,000 ECXP will boost that commander straight to 14 points. (2) You have an equivalent can’t-miss ship that has a commander who just reached 16 points. The same 600,00 ECXP will get him no further than 18 points.

I would suggest that your naval program benefits more from the 14 points the first captain would get, than from the two points the second would get.

But, as @eviltaneis suggesting, this upcoming commander skill rework and the 21-point commander business right now tilt the scales heavily in favor of not spending ANY until it hits. Instead, just amass all the ECXP you can, so that you can mint some 21-pointers right away, and be back in the ECXP business, once the re-screw is whipped out on us.

[MannyD_of_The_Sea]

8 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I personally don't believe this is a way to get rid of excess ECXP sitting around. It is a way to extend the grind for players (they want us grinding grinding grinding all the time - god forbid they let us play with what we already ground out and be happy - nope - you must continually grind and be miserable about it Comrade) and a way to earn more $$$ through Doubloon and Premium sales for them. Getting rid of excess ECXP is just their smoke and mirrors excuse.

JMHO.

I agree with you.

I have oft quoted Hapa_Fodder’s “opportunity to spend piles and piles of ECXP” remark, solely to disabuse people of the hope that existing 19-point captains will be scaled to 21 points.

We should all understand that “opportunity to spend” for some, is WarGrinding code for “necessity to grind” for others.

[Beleaf_]

I, too, believe the skill rework is a sleazy cash grab. Not only that but is disproportionately affects newer players that aren't sitting on a large cache of EXCP.

To answer the OP's question: I would grind to 19pts and then hoard as much EXCP as possible. Once the news hit I immediately stopped spending EXCP and now I'm currently sitting at 2.5 million.

[Midnitewolf]

ECXP is a bit faster but you still have to grind it somewhere be it on one of your 19 point captains or one of your sub 19 point captains.

The difference though is subtle.

First, any ship with a 19 point captain is going to preform better than one with a sub-19 point captain.  This means that your average CXP gain on a ship with a 19 point captain will be higher than with a sub-19 point captain.  Also, most of the time, you have your 19 point captains in a higher tiered ship and generally speaking the higher tiered ships earn more XP and consequently more CXP. 

Finally, the higher the skill point of the captain, the better any ship is going to do so if you can put a 19 point captain on a ship line your grinding, that ship will earn more XP than a ship with a 10 point captain.

However, the fact they are going to make us grind out 3 additional points per captain soon throws a huge wrench into things.  I thing people have estimated it will take something like 1 million more XP per captain to reach 21 and be able to get the benefits we currently enjoy with our 19 point captain.  That is something like what...60-70% more.  I mean it goes from like 1.8 million CXP to max a captain to 2.8 million to max a captain or something like that.  It is a pretty ridiculous increase.

That being the case, it would probably be wise to save as much ECXP as you can so you can get at least a few captains back up to max level else your going to be faced with a grind about the same as taking a captain from 10 to 19 right now just to get to max again.

What I have been doing is only using ECXP for few things like, retaining my captains when the move up to a new ship or if I am opening up a new line, I will get just the minimum amount of points required to make the ship playable.  For example, on the French DDs I just started , I began with a 10 point captain I had in the reserve and bought an additional 2 points so I could have, the two required 2 point skills the DD needed, Last Stand and Expert Marksman (since the turret traverse is godawful slow).   Then it is back to grinding the  rest the hard way with the captains, while I try to save up at least 4 million ECXP to bring my 4 current 19 point captains back up to max level when the new skills come out.  Only got around 850k ECXP so far so got a long way to go.

 

[z9_]

7 hours ago, Khafni said:

Heck, after the rework, a snowflake ship can sail "captainless".

Good point. Forgot about that.
Will prolly cash in my snowflake captains just to add to the ECXP pile.
I'm sure I'll need it after the rework.

7 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I have 54 19pt Capt's right now but I have 360+ ships. Not even close to getting all my Capt's to 19. I mean I could have sat on it and not used it and had 100 million by now but what is the point in that?

I have around 175 ships and that's far more than I can play.
I couldn't play 54 ships on a regular basis.
Add to that the fact that I mostly play co-op, and for my mid-tier ships
it's exclusively co-op, unless I'm leveling a new line.
 Look at my Normandy. I enjoy playing it in Operations, but really a 10 pt capt is all it needs,
so I've been letting it grow organically. It's prolly around 16 pts with 4 pts still to be assigned.
Got a few ships like that. They just don't need high point captains.

I started hoarding so that I could cover the cost of moving a captain up the line
along with leveling. It just built up over time.

And it can go fast. I've got a 17 pt capt in my Ostergotland that I was gonna put in
my Halland, but then I got Jerry from the campaign.
It's gonna cost a lot to bump Jerry to 19 pts AND pay to move the 17 pt capt back to the Oland,
which I think is a better place for him.
Only reason I haven't done it is that I'm waiting for the next upgrades sale.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

6 hours ago, SkullCowboy_60 said:

Tempting but dunno if I should wait until we get more info on the coming skill rebork.

You should definitely wait until just before it goes live. If it so happens that they decide to auto-promote 19-pointers to 21, then act.

 

5 hours ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

only to disabuse people of the hope that existing 19-point captains will be scaled to 21 points.

I'm not giving up hope until there is absolutely none left to speak of. Stranger things have happened.