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kgh52

Poor New Mexico player

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Just finished a coop, all T5's & T6's. 4 DD's, 4 cruisers & the NM. The NM driver was understandably unhappy. It was a very quick match & he did not get a shot at any of the bot team ships.

I had very similar experiences in my Texas & my Colorado in one coop. My BB's did get a couple of salvos off but would have needed to shoot like James McAvoy did in Wanted to hit anything. But only bots can make there shells curve around obstacles.

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Most of the time with slow boats its where you spawn.  If you start behind an island, alone on one side of the map and everyone else is on the other, it is going to be a very unproductive game.  I have seen a lot of poor play from some destroyers recently, so sometimes the DDs will get themselves rekk'd early and you can farm the remains (these are the games that keep you plugging away.)

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The trick is to get the bots to come to you.

My trick is to attack immediately and give away my position. The bots will detect and return fire.

It starts by sailing to open area, send up spotter and fire down range. This is max gun bloom. And is seen by any bot looking at the open area.

Once you see some, start shooting each one with single fired shot. A NM has four shots, so fire at four targets.

Even if you land close, it gets them to come to you.

Once you have 6 or 7 heading your way, drop to 1/2 speed and start picking the cruisers off, then the BBs.  Hit whatever you are comfortable shooting at.

For me, well, the name says it all.

Yeah, I am one of those.

But if done right, you annoy the team for initiating the bot single file push. Bots will roll in like they own the place in a tight formation. But it's a wonderful sight if you are a player.

It's all about studying bot behavior.

I know the toasters probably all too well.

😏

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

The trick is to get the bots to come to you.

My trick is to attack immediately and give away my position. The bots will detect and return fire.

It starts by sailing to open area, send up spotter and fire down range. This is max gun bloom. And is seen by any bot looking at the open area.

Once you see some, start shooting each one with single fired shot. A NM has four shots, so fire at four targets.

Even if you land close, it gets them to come to you.

Once you have 6 or 7 heading your way, drop to 1/2 speed and start picking the cruisers off, then the BBs.  Hit whatever you are comfortable shooting at.

For me, well, the name says it all.

Yeah, I am one of those.

But if done right, you annoy the team for initiating the bot single file push. Bots will roll in like they own the place in a tight formation. But it's a wonderful sight if you are a player.

It's all about studying bot behavior.

I know the toasters probably all too well.

😏

Mid Tiered US BB's can be outran by snails in a rowboat & have 30 to 34 second reload times. DD's & cruisers will get within range much quicker shoot more often, up to 6 times as often.

Without an open water map, several slow firing heavy cruisers & one or no DD's on the team I doubt if your strategy has a snowball's chance of working. The exception would be if you have 6 or more bots on your team or your teamed with 6 or 7 bad players.

 

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WG should probably look at the spawn points and the disposition of ships at spawn. We all know there are certain maps where your spawn point can pretty much determine how the game is going to turn out. One that springs to mind is Islands of Ice bottom left or top right in epicenter mode, solo spawn in a BB. Usually sucks, as does sleeping giant same spawns. Solo flank spawns are usually just bollocks anyway.

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6 hours ago, kgh52 said:

Mid Tiered US BB's can be outran by snails in a rowboat & have 30 to 34 second reload times. DD's & cruisers will get within range much quicker shoot more often, up to 6 times as often.

Without an open water map, several slow firing heavy cruisers & one or no DD's on the team I doubt if your strategy has a snowball's chance of working. The exception would be if you have 6 or more bots on your team or your teamed with 6 or 7 bad players.

 

It must be 6 or 7 bad players.

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I think 4dd co-op games are really... weird... and in a bad way
 

I understand why it happens, especially when there are DD-related directives, and it's not like I'm not "part of the problem" I'm complaining about when I'm driving a BB and load into a 4dd game. However 4dd games seem to be exceptionally common when playing T5/6 ships in co-op in the past few weeks (understandable; directives) and pretty frustrating all around.

From a non-DD viewpoint (especially as a BB), there's a good chance you won't get to do anything if all the human DD players are reasonably competent, on the other hand, if all the human DD players are really really bad, and manage to get themselves all killed without neutralizing enemy DDs, and there are no human CLs it is very annoying for BBs/CAs(especially the overspecialized slow firing ones like furutaka and spee) to deal with the rest of the match. Also; with the glut of "do X damage" directives, 4DD games are a massive wrench in the gears because the effective HP pool the entire co-op team has to share is severely diminished, and the bot DD 'yolo playstyle' is something that can frequently make you waste an entire torpedo reload (much much worse in cruisers with only one launcher per side vs 2) very early game to do like... 10k damage, and then miss out on juicy full salvo targets on the ships sailing in right behind the DDs. I know trying to get the 50k torp damage in one game directive for the kansas directive was a really really annoying recent thing, where I had like 5-6 4dd games in a row where there simply never was 50k worth of ship HP in range at any point, and game always ended in <5min, until the final one where I got it when all the DDs mutual killed early on and all of the cruisers and BBs got to putz around and enjoy the match for about 10 minutes and I could land some nice salvos on cruisers and BBs.

And from a DD standpoint; same problem with potential damage pool per match... or the torpedo hits (your first salvo is almost always going to be spent on an enemy DD, which will only take like what? 2 hits before guaranteed death, vs a cruiser or BB you can easily get double to quadruple) competing for spotting ribbons, or captures (I know when I'm trying to get captured in co-op in DD, the incredibly frustrating situation where I sail into a cap, and the ONLY thing I want to do that game is get that cap, but the bots lemming train in, I end up getting like 3-4 kills and feeling like a [edited] for being the DD taking all the kills from my teammates and I'm not even trying to get kills, I just want caps, and to boot the game ends before I can even get the cap), or competing with each other for spotteds. I don't think I've ever found 4dd games to be fun from ANY angle. 

It doesn't seem to be as bad at T7/+, or most of the time in general, but recently I guess because of the directives? and because I mostly spam T5/6 co-op ships that I don't play randoms in at all that I'm trying to tech up, it has been very noticeable and very annoying recently.

 

Really wish they could cap DDs in co-op to like 2 per team... or just make bot team default to have a numerical advantage over human team always. And not try to shoehorn in so many DDs when there aren't even human DD players. It's not exceptionally common, but I've certainly had times where it's only 2-3 human players in something like some BB/spee/furutaka (nothing suitable for shooting DDs), and then like three bot DDs. Which is typically OK because the 6 bot DDs usually mutual kill, but sometimes they just don't, and then it can be kind of annoying. I can't speak for everyone, but I just don't understand who in what situation (if anyone) actually "likes" 4dd co-op games. They're extremely fast and unrewarding unless a large portion of the human team suicides early on. I don't enjoy them in ANY class, I'm curious to hear if anyone does and why.

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Really wish they could cap DDs in co-op to like 2 per team... or just make bot team default to have a numerical advantage over human team always

I don't like the idea of capping DD's in coops.

I have suggested a optional coop battle where there are 12 bots vs 9 players. It got a lot of down votes. I expected as much. The forum has many players believing the world revolves around random battle & coops are for kiddies.

 

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11 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

It got a lot of down votes. I expected as much. The forum has many players believing the world revolves around random battle & coops are for kiddies.

Do you know if the down votes were from random players? Or is there some co-op population that has a reason to prefer it the way it is at present? I'm a bit curious as to why any players (I can to some extent understand the whole minimize game instances and maximize throughput argument from the technical/economic side, but that would be a developer position not a player one) would be against more 'asymmetric', longer lasting, more 'co-operative' co-op; it's so much more opportunity for rewards.

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I suspect most coop players would like a 12v9, increase in HP pool to farm.

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2 hours ago, kgh52 said:

I don't like the idea of capping DD's in coops.

I have suggested a optional coop battle where there are 12 bots vs 9 players. It got a lot of down votes. I expected as much. The forum has many players believing the world revolves around random battle & coops are for kiddies.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Efros said:

I suspect most coop players would like a 12v9, increase in HP pool to farm.

Most PVP players would like that in Coop as well, Id imagine (I would at least). Youd have to adjust the scoring in that mode though. 

You need to stop with the whole victim complex KGH.

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7 hours ago, kgh52 said:

I don't like the idea of capping DD's in coops.

I have suggested a optional coop battle where there are 12 bots vs 9 players. It got a lot of down votes. I expected as much. The forum has many players believing the world revolves around random battle & coops are for kiddies.

 

9 v. 12 would be fun IF:

  1. No more than 2 ally bots (if match-maker can't make a team within the timeframe, then the number of red bots would need to be prorated for the appropriate size.)
  2. No mercy rule (either time runs out, or one side is dead.

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I dunno I might quite like a solo human 12v9 game, not all the time but I wouldn't mind the occasional one.

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5 minutes ago, Efros said:

I dunno I might quite like a solo human 12v9 game, not all the time but I wouldn't mind the occasional one.

If I could pick the ship, it could be interesting.

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Yeah there are definitely some ships you end up in a solo game with that are, shall we say, challenging to win in.

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I have New Mexico and the aiming and dispersion sucks hard :Smile_sad: I will probably sell it and just use the money to get the Fuso instead :fish_cute_2:

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On 10/21/2020 at 9:15 AM, Efros said:

Yeah there are definitely some ships you end up in a solo game with that are, shall we say, challenging to win in.

I think they should try to do something about in Co-Op MM. Especially if there are going to be a large number of bots on the human team. Human ships should have higher tier priority. I already said something about the 'all humans in BBs/CAs' in 4dd games if the friendly dds fail to kill enemy dds, but here's a silly extreme example from yesterday.

 

The removed name is some afk guy (should also be clear from the 0xp), yeah it was a pretty fun game for me because I got to sail around and blow things up for the entire map duration (unfortunately it was two brothers, so limited kill/damage potential with 75% of the map being blocked off at any time, but plenty of opportunities for little brawls at each cap as I went all the way around the island to finally fight the enemy gneisenau at spawn cap where he was killing afk guy, can't complain though, got 300+ BB ribbons towards the directive on it). But now I imagine if our slots were flipped. say I was loading in in MY konig, and the guy in the gneisenau was afk. I'm pretty sure it would have come down to a battle between the green and red bots, probably doable in a bottom tier DD, but bottom tier BB versus top tier BBs and DDs? and 'no allies'? yikes.

 

Maybe for co-op at least, they could consider doing something like having an afk player 'turn into a bot' after say 2 minutes. people sitting at spawn forever makes bots do some really weird stuff especially in low human count games

asdf.jpg

edits: assorted typos

Edited by Skipper30087

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Nice thoughts but COOP gets little to no attention as far as game development is concerned. 

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The slow BBs just suck.

 

Earlier in the dockyard missions when it focused on low tier, I tried playing BBs but it was frustrating.  Too Slow and some have pretty long reloads.  Couldn't keep up with the DD & CL players doing their missions.  Can't keep up with the Derzkis, Isokazes, and Lord almighty, CLEMSON.

 

I even took Tier IV Imperator Nikolai I, a ship deemed OP.  But she was too slow.  Even her abnormally good BB dispersion for Tier IV was not enough.

Tier III Konig Albert?  Useless, and she was a ship deemed OP by WG and pulled from the shop long ago.  She can't get in effective range because everything was already dead.

 

I switched to Danae, Phoenix, Kuma and it was a whole lot easier, more fun.  There was a game where I was using Kuma and it was literally a race between me and another CL as we competed to kill things as we sped forward.  The slow Battleships were nowhere in contention.  Felt bad for them because they were all going to score low, but hey, daddy needs to make some XPs and Credits.

 

It gets better for BBs the higher in tier you go, because they get faster and their effective engagement ranges get longer.  Some get Mega Secondaries to make it even easier.  But the higher amount of slow BBs the lower in tiers you go... No bueno.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Yup, I get games like this all the time.  It's why I rarely play my BB's any longer, unless there's a reason to.    The fun has been sucked right out of them.

  I HAVE been kicking the idea around of just playing them in Randoms- I did pretty well last time I did.   But that would mainly be limited to mid tiers.  Low tiers are just too slow,  and high tiers are where all the annoying meme ships live.

  I've switched to playing DD's and cruisers in Co-op now-  more action,  more damage and xp earned, less time waiting to get in range or to reload.    Yeah, you get ROFLstomped more often, but it's still more rewarding.   And the "Oh goodie, another one of THESE games again..." 's aren't nearly as frequent.

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On 10/20/2020 at 12:09 PM, kgh52 said:

I don't like the idea of capping DD's in coops.

I have suggested a optional coop battle where there are 12 bots vs 9 players. It got a lot of down votes. I expected as much. The forum has many players believing the world revolves around random battle & coops are for kiddies.

 

i support 9 bots vs 12 players for sure. I also support limiting it to two DDs on the allied team should they not wanna do 9v12, i doubt either will happen, wargaming ignores COOP 90% of the time "because". 4 DDs games are super boring. Had one tonight that 5 cruisers and 4 DDs im sure you can imagine how fast that game was..

 

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6 hours ago, Princess_Daystar said:

i support 9 bots vs 12 players for sure. I also support limiting it to two DDs on the allied team should they not wanna do 9v12, i doubt either will happen, wargaming ignores COOP 90% of the time "because". 4 DDs games are super boring. Had one tonight that 5 cruisers and 4 DDs im sure you can imagine how fast that game was..

 

The reason I prefer coops is the battles are quick. The reason I dislike CV's in coops is because hunting down the CV drags the battle out making it boring.

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DD rich games are usually bad news for your XP and damage totals if you're a BB. I'd like a 2 DD limit in COOP.

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:54 AM, Skipper30087 said:

 

Really wish they could cap DDs in co-op to like 2 per team... or just make bot team default to have a numerical advantage over human team always. And not try to shoehorn in so many DDs when there aren't even human DD players. It's not exceptionally common, but I've certainly had times where it's only 2-3 human players in something like some BB/spee/furutaka (nothing suitable for shooting DDs), and then like three bot DDs. Which is typically OK because the 6 bot DDs usually mutual kill, but sometimes they just don't, and then it can be kind of annoying. I can't speak for everyone, but I just don't understand who in what situation (if anyone) actually "likes" 4dd co-op games. They're extremely fast and unrewarding unless a large portion of the human team suicides early on. I don't enjoy them in ANY class, I'm curious to hear if anyone does and why

I endorse this.

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5 hours ago, Efros said:

DD rich games are usually bad news for your XP and damage totals if you're a BB. I'd like a 2 DD limit in COOP.

It's fine for later tiered BBs that are fast and can close range to get better, higher hit % shots.  Even better if you got Mega Secondaries that start showing up in Tier VIII.

 

Georgia is so fast that you'll be zooming past smoke camping DDs;  It's some of the funniest sh*t you'll see in Co-op, because the DD player sees you racing past him, and then he leaves his smoke... He realizes Georgia is about to kill everything, and he has to Engine Boost forward and try to get his Damage & Kills before GA takes everything :Smile_teethhappy:  Alsace is very fast also, and has Mega Secondaries.  High Tier German BBs at least go 30kts and all got Mega Secondaries.  Odin, Derpitz, Pommern got torps also.

Hit "W" key x4 and head towards the cap, the BB will do fine.  Be aggressive.

 

But the moment you try to sit back and plink at range, you're not going to keep up with the DD players.  That is exactly what the DD players up front want, you're not in their way trying to take their damage and kills.

27kt Ohio, Yamato, Shikashima, Massachusetts can get in there and still make plenty of use of Secondary Spec.

maxresdefault.jpg

"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 27kts, you're going to see some serious s***."

 

My 27kt Ohio, Shikashima, Yamato are all in Secondary Spec, making use of their Mega Secondaries, and do better damage than my Pure Plinker Tier X BBs Thunderer, Conqueror, Slava.  I even have 30kt Montana in Secondary Spec, complete with AAM2 in Slot 6.

8TwV298.jpg

:Smile_teethhappy:

Hell, they do better damage than any of my Cruisers and Destroyers.

zL2R4j2.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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