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ArIskandir

T6 Boats for Operations

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I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

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Of the six ships listed, I would give the edge to London.  However, I think that Leander is a much better ship for ops (if that is an option.)

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IMO, London isn't a good choice for Operations.  She has 2 critically annoying problems.

1.  Poor gun range of 13.4km.  She doesn't even have Spotting Aircraft to at least temporarily increase that.  The short gun range was annoying in the latter part of Killer Whale and extremely annoying in Aegis.

2.  Terrible Smoke Gun Bloom Range of 6.79km, which is half her gun range already.  It will not take long for bots to get within range and cause you to get detected in your own smoke.

 

If you do get Sims, please, please be sure to run the shorter range, 6.9km but 11.6k dmg torps and not the 10.5km, 9.6k dmg ones.  The higher alpha is much better in nailing Missouri and other Battleships.

 

Also, with Cruisers in Ops, they tend to favor CLs, especially in Operation Narai.  The ROF is of more importance than slower firing guns, especially if you got to do tasks where you're alone and you need to kill multiple ships, i.e. CV Route in Narai.  I've also seen CAs be too slow with their guns and somehow let the transports get away in that Op also.  CA Myoko I absolutely love for Random Battles, but in the close confines of Operation Narai, she's too big, clumsy, and her reload is too slow for what that op wants.

 

For a Premium Tier VII CL in Narai, I'd recommend Atlanta, Munchen.  They both have rapid firing guns that cut through targets in Narai.  Both have torpedoes also.

Boise / Nueve di Julio look good as "Helena with Repair Party" but they have an abysmal 13.56km gun range and they sail worse than Helena.

But hell, there are already some good Tier VII Tech Tree CLs for Narai: 

Fiji is the best.  RNCL AP rips targets apart in Narai.  She has torpedoes (unlike Helena) and Repair Party.

Helena does well also.  USN 152mm x15 is no joke.  She reloads faster than NdJ / Boise.

 

De Grasse is alright.  She's not a popular pick though.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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39 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

I'd stay away from DD"s in operations, low HP pools and being reliant on torpedoes make some of the operations difficult.

London is a good ship for operations, It's got a heal, hydro and smoke, is mobile enough, the only drawback is the guns, which aren't that big a problem.

USN is kinda out of luck at tier 6, unless you want one of the Standard Battleships, which are only good for some operations. Tier 7 has it's own issues (only one operation ATM) Boise isn't bad for tier 7 ops (hydro and heal FTW). Atlanta is doable, but it is fragile. Florida is good, but farther away from what you were looking for.

De Grasse is a pretty good choice as well.

If you had to just pick one, London, probably the best bang for your buck in operations. The nature of operations will compensate for the short gun range, and she's got a nice box of tools.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

Degrasse is great for Raptor Rescue and Killer Whale. I like Perth and Huanghe for Aegis but Degrasse does well there, too. Even Duca D'Aosta works in ops.

London's gun range really limits her in all operations.

Any CL in Narai works but my favorites are Lazo and Abruzzi because there arcs are flatter than most. Hotlanta is always a winner, though, even with orbital shells.

I play DD in all ops as well but not US DD. 

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London, Sims, and De Grasse.

London is well enough for operations, it's smoke helps if you're teammates are too passive and you draw more attention than planned. For the Royal Navy you also have Nelson at T7 for FXP, at least I think it's still available.

Sims' shorter range torpedoes are tasty. Mona is plenty good for ops though, it's really a dealers choice.

De Grasse is crazy good at ops, it's just an all round good ship. Guns, range, speed, handling... all good. Dunkerque is also good if you can angle your armor.

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1 hour ago, HamptonRoads said:

Of the six ships listed, I would give the edge to London.  However, I think that Leander is a much better ship for ops (if that is an option.)

I do have Leander with Perma camo but for retraining I think I need a Premium ship

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, London isn't a good choice for Operations.  She has 2 critically annoying problems.

Range is not worse than Leander so I'm familiar with having "short arms". The option is Gallant and I think is a worse option all around

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you do get Sims, please, please be sure to run the shorter range, 6.9km but 11.6k dmg torps and not the 10.5km, 9.6k dmg ones.  The higher alpha is much better in nailing Missouri and other Battleships.

Of course, long range torps on bots are near useless. I always blast the Missouri point blank as she comes out of the Island .

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

For a Premium Tier VII CL in Narai, I'd recommend Atlanta, Munchen.  They both have rapid firing guns that cut through targets in Narai.  Both have torpedoes also.

I'm really tempted by Atlanta but she is a bit more costly than what I was planning to spend, also not really sure about T7, Narai runs only 1/4 of the time, if lucky. I've enough German Premiums, don't really need another atm.

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

De Grasse is alright.  She's not a popular pick though.

 

1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

De Grasse is a pretty good choice as well.

 

1 hour ago, Khafni said:

Degrasse is great for Raptor Rescue and Killer Whale. I like Perth and Huanghe for Aegis but Degrasse does well there, too.

TY guys, I think I'll go for De Grasse over Aigle too, not really a fan of taking DDs to Ops

54 minutes ago, MasterDiggs said:

Sims' shorter range torpedoes are tasty. Mona is plenty good for ops though, it's really a dealers choice.

If there were more T7 Ops I'll go with Sims, but as it is T6 is more available on rotation the moment I need it, that's a strong selling point on Monaghan.

1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

USN is kinda out of luck at tier 6, unless you want one of the Standard Battleships

Nah, too damn slow... you guys end eating all my food before I get to the table.

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2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

Gallant almost op at tier.

Sims. Has a bonus xp modifier no other ship has.

De Grasse very strong cruiser, bit squishy so play more range games...

BTW I have them all...

 

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5 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Gallant almost op at tier.

How does she compares with her Tech Tree sister?

5 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Sims. Has a bonus xp modifier no other ship has.

Does it gets translated into increased credit income?

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2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

I enjoy using Mutsu in scenario operations.

But, of the ships you listed ....

1.  London, because I have one and prefer a cruiser in operations, especially a cruiser with a repair party consumable, over every DD.

2.  Sims vs. Monaghan?  I'll refrain from answering because I am not familiar with the ships in question.

3.  I'm partial to Aigle, because I purchased mine for coal a long time ago and fondly remember using her in Operation Dynamo. 
     I'm not familiar with De Grasse.  But a glance at her wiki page show's she's a slightly buffed, albeit slower, version of La Galissonnière.
     Aigle will need some careful selection of upgrades and Captain's skills, but once set-up to your preferences, she competes well in the Tier-6 DD co-op/random battle environment.
     But, during operations that do not offer access to repair facilities or repair ships, a player might struggle to keep either ship afloat.
      https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Operation_Dynamo

4.  I prefer to use ships that have access to repair party consumables in Operations.  
     Operations can be a target-rich environment and only a few of them offer a chance to get the ship repaired.
     So, for me, the choices are among CV's, BB's and Cruisers with repair party. 
     Cruisers without a repair party will require good play to keep the ship afloat or a willingness, at some point, to sacrifice the ship to accomplish the goal(s) of the operation.
     It is rare for me to take a DD into a Scenario Operation, nowadays.

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23 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Nah, too damn slow... you guys end eating all my food before I get to the table.

That's why I said with the USN you're kina out of luck, about the only way the USN is gonna get a tier 6 premium cruiser is if they put a Northampton in game, like USS Louisville (CA-28) or USS Houston (CA-30) which might fit at tier 6.

The US Standards are really a challenge in Killer Whale, and in all the other operations you have to know where you're going at all times with a plan. Not that I'm against people bringing them, but they are not the most flexible ships. The firepower when they can bring it to bear is amazing though. 16inch is fun at tier 6, and Arizona's super accurate 14inch battery is nothing to laugh at. The chalk lines to prove you're moving are no laughing matter though.

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RN: London because its a cruiser also those 203mm AP can lolpen bows of t5 or lower tier cruisers as well as the forts at Killer Whale at any range and Gallant on top of me being unfamiliar with it is a DD, and DDs generally don't last long due to tiny hp pool, thin armor also poor overall firepower output to control the hordes of incoming enemy bots.

USN: Sims from what I remember is a really good DD for Op Dynamo, but that scenario has being shelfed. Idk bout Monaghan, if you put torp reload booster on and take her to A1 on the map of Killer Whale, wait for enemy reinforcements she might be good at spawn killing then BBs with torps.

MN: this is where im gonna shine(warning Im a very French bias, and mains alot of french boats) in answering your question, both these ships are pretty good for scenarios but De Grasse hands down, its a well rounded cruiser with speed to move and kill far away secondary targets, Or have decent torp firing angle to charge and torp a bot that gets too close to the objective ship you're escorting whilst remaining somewhat angled. If you hand to pick a DD for t6 scenarios I would pick Aigle, she has the health and gun range(with AFT) to almost fight like a cruiser on something that moves like a DD and the torpedoes the do way more damage and reload faster than those on Monaghan or Gallant. So she can sit at A1 and spawn kill the BB reinforcements in Killer Whale whilst retaining enough health to trade blows with the escorting DDs and even a tenryuu through smart use of the smoke screen generator.

Based on your format my answer is London for RN, Sims for USN and De grasse for MN.

But... in all honesty i think you should take home the London, De Grasse and Aigle for Scenarios.

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British London is alright I haven't used it much however. USN I would get Boise, it kills them in Narai, except it doesn't kill the CV very well. You have to chase it all of the way to the north and you can't get back to the battle in time. For the French, I would get Dunkerque, it rocks in Aegis, Raptor Rescue and Killer Whale.

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5 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I retrain my captains in Operations, so far T6 and T7 went pretty smooth, I just retrained the captains directly in their new ship. Now at T8+ I'll retrain them in a premium T6 ship. I'm aiming to buy USN, RN and French suitable premium ships, at the most affordable price. So far my choices are:

RN. London vs Gallant: I'm very partial (even if it is more expensive) to the London, I enjoy RN CAs a lot and in the context of Operations I feel London has all the right tools. 

USN. Sims vs Monaghan: I think I like the Sims more, but being T7 makes it dependent on Narai, if Narai gets pulled again, well... retrains get suspended

MN. De Grasse vs Aigle: I'm partial to De Grasse, looks like a fun ship to also use in Randoms if needed, but have no recent info about any of them to make an educated guess

Which one do you think is better suited for running Ops? 

I'm not a fan of the London, as HazeGrayUnderway said, the Leander is a better ops ship.

The Pensacola is a citadel beast in Aegis. In Killer Whale the Budyonny tops my list. The Molotov is not bad. For some reason I I have either very good games on my De Grasse or poor games, not much in between. I will say the good games outnumber the bad.

In Narai the Fiji is the best CL. The Shchors is also good. The Laso, Yorck & Myoko are fine.

I need to rebuild my Helena's commander skills but I'll wait for the upcoming rework in hopes of a free skills rebuild.

Played right the Atlanta is a beast in Narai.

I don't see many Gallants in ops. The Jarvis is common for Narai. I rarely see US DD's in Narai.

I saw where WG is planning to bring back some of the OPs removed when the CV rebuild was implemented. I hope Operation Dynamo is 1st. AA builds on US DD's and trying to hit the E-boats with DD gun boats is a blast.

 

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1 hour ago, Rolkatsuki said:

But... in all honesty i think you should take home the London, De Grasse and Aigle for Scenarios.

Sadly I need one USN premium since my ultimate goal is to retrain captains. Thank you for your input tho.

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4 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

How does she compares with her Tech Tree sister?

Does it gets translated into increased credit income?

Sims gets enhanced amount of BASE EXP. 

I don't think base exp translates to credits per se...

Gallant has better detection. 

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Aigle can do amazing damage, but the firing arcs and traverse rate of her guns are awful. They'd be bad on some BBs, let alone a DD. She really needs to be positioned carefully, because if you make a mistake and have to bug out in a hurry chances are you're going to spend an uncomfortable amount of time with your guns out of action while you reposition. When she's well placed, she's murderous with those oversized guns; her AP can citadel broadside cruisers of equal or lower tiers at a decently long range (for a DD), so even when your murderfish are on cooldown you can still pull your weight without having to cross your fingers and pray for fires. She's also the only MN DD with smoke. Spamming 139mm AP from smoke at oblivious bot cruiser groups as they sail by you presenting full broadsides is glorious fun. Aigle is also available for coal, which means she can be had for a grand total investment of $0.00. If you are planning to drop money, spend it on a different ship from your wish list and just save up some coal to get Aigle for free.

For USN cruisers... at T6, the only thing you can really do if you must have a cruiser is train a 19-point captain into either Pensacola or Dallas and just use the XP they generate to train up whichever other cruiser captain you're working on. I kept my Pensacola captain in place as I moved up the USN cruiser trees, and he became my first 19-pointer cycling through premiums as I acquired them. You can also just run your cruiser captain in training on Arizona or West Virginia; you won't be as efficient as if you had a dedicated BB captain, but you won't be as badly handicapped as if you dropped the same cruiser captain into Monaghan (at least, unless you typically build your USN cruiser captains with Last Stand as is standard practice for DDs- and you will suffer in operations if you don't have Last Stand on your DD; the operations bots have better AI than the regular co-op bots; you will lose your DD's engine, rudder, or both every single time you come under fire). Arizona has more accurate guns, but WeeVee's 406mm main battery can and will overmatch absolutely everything you will face in T6 operations. Both are slower than Congress, but their guns are worth it if you've got the maps memorized well enough to mitigate their sluggishness with good positioning.

Monaghan is great, if you're training DD captains. Good, fast-firing guns, good smoke to make use of them without getting spanked early, and good torps with a reload booster. Since operations frequently last long enough to use the torp reload booster more than once, unlike normal co-op matches, you can run up some very impressive numbers with her- and the booster also helps if your team starts to get overwhelmed, because you can delete twice as many bots as most other DDs at the tier and take only half a minute to do it. The A hull is far, far better than the B hull, both because of the shorter torp reload and the additional guns, which will serve you far better than the two extra fish the B hull can put in the water. But, again, you need a captain with Last Stand. Not optional. You'll get pinned down and murdered if you make a single misstep without it- so she's great for training USN DD captains, but not for any other class of ship.

Edited by Wrath_Of_Deadguy
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On 10/19/2020 at 9:00 PM, ArIskandir said:

Sadly I need one USN premium since my ultimate goal is to retrain captains. Thank you for your input tho.

If you're willing to use Narai for your purpose, Boise is a decent USN cruiser, with a British heal. Just saying.

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Leander and London are a must-have duo for the tier VI ops, as one you can say is an oversize DD with lower-end CL detection and trimmings (Leander), the other is very much RN CL-like but with 203's punch and HE (London).

 

i.e. they both blur the lines between their class and that of another and can share a common commander with ease.

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On 10/19/2020 at 3:50 PM, SgtBeltfed said:

I'd stay away from DD"s in operations, low HP pools and being reliant on torpedoes make some of the operations difficult.

I'll second this. Unless you are really good with DDs. A well played DD is a huge boon to the team. An average DD is almost worthless. And things go downhill from there. And not all DDs are equally suited to use in OPs.

An average player in BB or CA/CL can still make a contribution to the win. If nothing else they soak up damage and dish some out.

 

Edited by Sabot_100

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Limiting my discussion to the original poster's question:

Royal Navy: London vs. Gallant. Honestly, Gallant is a good ship, but not a great ship for Scenarios, where cruisers and battleships rule in terms of easy play and good XP. Playing destroyers in Scenarios can be a total crapshoot without an organized team. They lack role flexibility and that means they're reliant on the rest of your team knowing their roles. London is not the best cruiser for Tier VI operations, but IMHO it's pretty OK and has some positives compared to Leander. But for your purposes - an RN trainer usable in operations, I think it's a good choice.

US Navy: I don't think Sims or Monaghan is a good choice. Boise would be my choice for a captain trainer. If you want a ship to train US destroyer captains, Atlanta actually works. Atlanta is a top performer in Narai, and Boise is as good as Helena, which is pretty good as well.

Marine Nationale: De Grassse is IMHO a slight upgrade over La Galissonniere with all the good and bad that entails. De Grasse has triple torpedo launchers rather than doubles, but slightly slower main battery reload. Struggles a bit if she gets focused. I think it's a better pick than Aigle; however, Aigle actually can do quite well in Aegis. Oddly I am something of a fan of Dunkerque as well, although her dispersion can be a bit trolly.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn

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