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YouSatInGum

Where does WG go from here? Crossroads coming up soon....

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Recently I started a thread about high tier ships that actually existed (or construction started) that are not yet in the game.  While a few suggestions were made, it was mostly about CV's or one off DDs or export cruisers.  There were no suggestions of any new ship lines.  Once the Italian BB line drops, I don't think there is much in way of ships that had more than imaginary rivets (or even plans) that will work for high tiers .  In the last year we had British CA, Russian CA split, German CV, Euro DD, USN BB split, quite a few German and Russian premiums.

The point is, to keep up this pace of ship content creation, WG will have make a few decisions such as:  more paper ships, more non surface stuff aka CVs and subs, bring in more modern ships (aka tier 11+), or shift focus onto other types of game content.  While I think other types of content would work, WG has not shown any willingness to take any risks out of their proven (to them) premium ships form of monetization.  With that direction being unlikely, we are left with the other stuff.  We do have subs promised, but I think it will still be a while (if ever) before that can be balanced enough to not cause a major backlash. 

So, we are left with more paper stuff, more cv's, or T11+ stuff (or some combination of) 

....Maybe Russian cv's are coming after all....

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14 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

....Maybe Russian cv's are coming after all....

Oh I think RU CVs will definitely come at some point. They pulled out a completely fictional line split for a line that that was already totally fictional from T7 (RU CA/CL). And they showed they could do it with KMS CVs. RU CVs are just a matter of time.

But yeah, filling in the Italian and French lines are really the only real ships left (French CVs are more real that RU ones at least). The Italians have BBs and DDs left to go, maybe CVs. The other major gap is of course odd tier CVs, they just have to decide how they want to do those. 

One other major gap is Battlecruisers, especially RN ones. It'll be interesting to see how they go after those, as I would assume they will eventually make it in.

With the introduction of subs they will have enough for new lines for a while. German, US, RN, MN, RM, RU, IJN all have lots of subs. And most countries have at least a few subs. There's a lot there to keep them busy for a while.

The EU nations will be interesting, there's probably enough there to make a line or two of DDs and CLs. Probably not BBs though.

There is enough to keep them busy within the current game period for a year or two I think (premium ships are easy to crank out). After that I don't know, WG may not know either.

I think they did mention on a stream recently that they're taking a look at Cold War ships. Obviously you go there you have a nearly endless supply of material, with the caveat that you probably can't fit 1960s+ technology into the current game with its current mechanics (you thought CVs were bad now...). I would guess that if they want to keep introducing new content they're going to have to expand the end date for ships. I really would be interested in that direction, though of course how it works with the rest of the game would be interesting to say the least.

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They could spend 2 years releasing new sub lines. And balance has never been a concern with Wargaming.

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29 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Recently I started a thread about high tier ships that actually existed (or construction started) that are not yet in the game.  While a few suggestions were made, it was mostly about CV's or one off DDs or export cruisers.  There were no suggestions of any new ship lines.  Once the Italian BB line drops, I don't think there is much in way of ships that had more than imaginary rivets (or even plans) that will work for high tiers .  In the last year we had British CA, Russian CA split, German CV, Euro DD, USN BB split, quite a few German and Russian premiums.

The point is, to keep up this pace of ship content creation, WG will have make a few decisions such as:  more paper ships, more non surface stuff aka CVs and subs, bring in more modern ships (aka tier 11+), or shift focus onto other types of game content.  While I think other types of content would work, WG has not shown any willingness to take any risks out of their proven (to them) premium ships form of monetization.  With that direction being unlikely, we are left with the other stuff.  We do have subs promised, but I think it will still be a while (if ever) before that can be balanced enough to not cause a major backlash. 

So, we are left with more paper stuff, more cv's, or T11+ stuff (or some combination of) 

....Maybe Russian cv's are coming after all....

There are plenty of paper ships in the game already.  I have no problem with more.  This is an arcade ship game and I am not Admiral Halsey.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw subs in the game in early 2021.

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26 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

There are plenty of paper ships in the game already.  I have no problem with more.  This is an arcade ship game and I am not Admiral Halsey.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw subs in the game in early 2021.

If they put them in that fast, it would be a total poo poo show.  Giving CAs and BBs anti sub capability won't fix much.  The dive and attack depth mechanics were badly broken and spotting would be so broken as to make DDs mostly redundant....and then there is the silly stuff like subs torping subs submerged like it's as natural in the Hunt for Red October.  CVs are flawed, but these things are worse.

BTW- I guess I'm ok with paper ships too...  a German light cruiser line would be nice.  A tier 9 Mainz with a heal would be lovely.

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Russians CVs will be coming, no doubts for me. There are blueprints and WG has cut the number of CVs in half so they don't need to fill out a line from Tier IV to Tier X

I also think Pan-American DDs will be a thing in the future.

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The shipyard events will become more common as using a premium ship as stop gap between the release of new lines to keep playerbase busy and make some money out of it.

There will probably have more lines like Italian DDs, US DD split, Dutch DD , maybe some more cruiser splitting and some BB/BC split as mentioned above and more CV lines.

With the introduction of subs WG will probably running out of ideas and there will be two directions, either towards new tiers (T0 or T11) or more modes (PvE modes for example). At that time probably WG will having harder time in keeping the game profitable if they want to continue developing the game

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As I've mentioned in other threads, what this game is missing from a revenue perspective is something akin to Premium Ammo.  An income stream directly related to games played.  The Research Bureau is one way of doing that one step removed.  I'm sure there'll be fun and engaging ways to monetize the new captain skill grind.  Those are much less onerous than the dreaded Premium Ammo.  But I think they are kind of limited in their ability to provide a consistent stream of revenue over the long term.

And you have to be careful that, in trying to create all sorts of stop gap revenue streams, that you don't make the problem worse by driving away more players.  So, the game is in a really tricky spot.  This would kind of be the perfect spot for a new version where you can kind of start over with the tech trees and the power creep.  But that's a lot of money and a ton of risk of alienating players with big monetary investments in the game. 

So seems likely that they'll just maintain the status quo and fill in the queues with bots as necessary.

and for the record, i despise the entire concept of premium ammo.

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Nowhere is it written that development must stop once paper-ship only lines are all that is left. Just off the top of my head WG could still do:

IJN

- A battlecruiser branch that takes its inspiration from the Amagi and the Ashitaka.

- A light cruiser line featuring the Mogami.

- A hybrid cruiser line featuring Tone's sister Chikuma. 

-A second CV branch that includes Zuiho, Hiryu, Taiho as well as maybe some of the famous ones they missed like Akagi and Soryu.

USN

- A second DD branch with the Gridleys and Bagleys that they missed the first time around.

- A third heavy cruiser branch using the A-B-X-Y designs of the Buffalo and Anchorage.

- A second CV branch with the Bogue, Independence, Hornet, Essex etc.

KM

- A battlecruiser branch from the Seydlitz onwards

- A light cruiser branch going up from the Nürnberg. 

- A heavy cruiser split into A-B-X-Y and A-X-Y cruisers (i.e. a T10 Roon). 

- A heavy DD line featuring all the 150mm DDs.

RN

- A battlecruiser line obviously.

- A second DD line featuring some of the classes that got skipped (e.g. W-class, Weapon-class)

VMF

- A CV line obviously.

MN

- A light cruiser line going up from the La Galissoniere

- A battleship split into A-B-X (Alsace style) and A-B (Richelieu style) BBs

- A CV line.

RM

- A full DD line.

- A light cruiser line.

- A CV line.

Pan-EU

- Cruiser line

 

----

Assuming they release 4 lines per year (which seems to be their current pattern), the above would offer 5 full years of content. As we have seen with WoT, WG are masters at pulling stuff out of thin air. I wouldn't worry about a content drought coming up anytime soon. If you're worried that the game will be overrun with paper ships, then I'm afraid I have bad news for you: we've already long crossed that bridge and burnt it.

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3 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

One other major gap is Battlecruisers, especially RN ones. It'll be interesting to see how they go after those, as I would assume they will eventually make it in.

Once we get Battlecruiser / Super Cruiser LINES into the game, it will drive Normal Cruisers into extinction.  Tier IX, especially in Ranked, is already showing this, as that's where a bunch of them exist already.  The Super Cruisers / Battlecruisers can hang with a BB-heavy lineup, and some still have Radar utility.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Once we get Battlecruiser / Super Cruiser LINES into the game, it will drive Normal Cruisers into extinction.  Tier IX, especially in Ranked, is already showing this, as that's where a bunch of them exist already.  The Super Cruisers / Battlecruisers can hang with a BB-heavy lineup, and some still have Radar utility.

Depends: if they make Super Cruiser their own class their advantage will be marginal.

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Guided Missle Cruisers would be the next above tier 10 and above - that with Battleships equiped the same should even the playing field without a doubt. 

Let's limit their number of missiles and not make them unlimited.  Like this ship make them only four per battle and then your zeroed out.  

 

1495710403670.jpg

Edited by dionkraft

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With WG's references and inspiration ranging from Jane's and Conway's to bar napkins and psilocybin dreams, the possibilities are endless.

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i hope the coldwar ships will become part of some new game,not wows tier11 tier12.

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There would be a rich opportunity in making a mode with new trees and tiers for WW1 and pre WW1 ships as there were a lot of unique designs in that time period as many nations were experimenting with new concepts.

Edited by RipNuN2
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1 minute ago, RipNuN2 said:

There would be a rich opportunity in making a mode with new trees and tiers for WW1 and pre WW1 ships as there were a lot of unique designs in that time period as many nations were experimenting with new concepts.

Yup. Plus, the gameplay more closely resembles the preferred playerbase meta.

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Once we get Battlecruiser / Super Cruiser LINES into the game, it will drive Normal Cruisers into extinction.  Tier IX, especially in Ranked, is already showing this, as that's where a bunch of them exist already.  The Super Cruisers / Battlecruisers can hang with a BB-heavy lineup, and some still have Radar utility.

 

2 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

Depends: if they make Super Cruiser their own class their advantage will be marginal.

This. Add more CBs and they will need their own type. The proposed captain rework already highlighted the issue with forcing them into either BB or CA types. They're their own type, and need to be recognized as such. While we had relatively few in the game it wasn't to bad. But they cause problems (Alaska vs Seattle is the same to MM, but they are in no way comparable in reality). If we get CB lines they will need their own ship type and so be accounted for properly by MM.

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Another option

Pull a ship permanently

Do a subtle variation of said ship 2 years later  & see how many new people get it & how many old people bite anyways

 


More likely approach - create other ways you have to get a ship if you want it (which seems the whole purpose of the Research Bureau

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I think at some point the lines will have filled out in about 2 years, subs will be in during that time, but constantly needing adjustments.

I fear that the hybrids are actually a stealth CV rework. Because console is going well, but console players will want to play the PC version when they are older.

This is a buildup of things to come in my opinion .

Cold War ships would most likely be tier locked and we may find out that there will be two versions of Iowa class and Montana. I think tiers 9 and 10 will be that scenario. Where a transition to the new tiers is likely by a different version of some ships, but not all. 

To add to this, there will be little speculative ships in Cold War. All are fairly well known.

But there may be one limitation imposed by WG simply because it is too controversial. Nukes.

I think all Cold War stays conventional for balance reasons and the controversy it may cause.

Plus it would suck the fun out of a battle if red got slammed with a mark 45 from a sub. Then you have Baker Test all over again.

 

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Pre Dreads and Cold War ships are far easier to implement and balance than subs, and subs are comming. Someone at some point will realize the fact and we probably will have a radical rework and reshuffle of the tech tree. The traditional structure of low tier for learning and high tiers for veterans doesn't exist anymore, there's no sense in keeping the structure alive since low tiers are dead and new guys are learning the game at T8. 

I think a tech tree rework is the way to refresh the game and extend its longevity. Expand on Pre Dreadnought and Cold War eras and they'll never run out of content. Flatten the grind and operational costs so they become not too focused on high tiers and more evenly distributed for all tiers. Refocus the revenue structure, as it is it's all loaded on T8-T10, the rest of the game content suffers as consequence.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

 

This. Add more CBs and they will need their own type. The proposed captain rework already highlighted the issue with forcing them into either BB or CA types. They're their own type, and need to be recognized as such. While we had relatively few in the game it wasn't to bad. But they cause problems (Alaska vs Seattle is the same to MM, but they are in no way comparable in reality). If we get CB lines they will need their own ship type and so be accounted for properly by MM.

Seatle is arguably one of the worst Tech tree ship. When you compara Puerto Rivo and Des Moines, or Zao and Yoshino, it is hard yo claim one to be straight better than the other.

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10 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

The point is, to keep up this pace of ship content creation, WG will have make a few decisions such as

The current problem is the over emphasis on ship creation and not the implementation of ship capabilities and mechanics. Personally I'd add moored contact and influence mines and homing torpedoes before new paper ships; less those ships end up delaminated in the presence of new capabilities.

In addition, for the pan European and Pan-American ships like cruisers and CVs, the EU side has both dutch and Scandinavian cruisers to choose from. Furthermore, a Boise at t10 with access to the 6th slot and all stops taken out her guns would be very competitive.

That said, for surface ships, the technology available to said ships may become their adjustment factor.

 

 

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6 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Once we get Battlecruiser / Super Cruiser LINES into the game, it will drive Normal Cruisers into extinction.  Tier IX, especially in Ranked, is already showing this, as that's where a bunch of them exist already.  The Super Cruisers / Battlecruisers can hang with a BB-heavy lineup, and some still have Radar utility.

I don't know about that. Last night ran into a team of exclusively Des Moines and Salem's vs our mostly Soviet composition fleet and they wiped us pretty hard. Even before the needs to Super Cruisers, their low DPM and large size kept them in check.

All WG has to do to keep existing treaty derivative cruisers in the show, is reduce the visibility of incoming naval artillery by at least half. Shell velocities won't be a problem.

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34 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Pre Dreads and Cold War ships are far easier to implement and balance than subs, and subs are comming. Someone at some point will realize the fact and we probably will have a radical rework and reshuffle of the tech tree. The traditional structure of low tier for learning and high tiers for veterans doesn't exist anymore, there's no sense in keeping the structure alive since low tiers are dead and new guys are learning the game at T8. 

I think a tech tree rework is the way to refresh the game and extend its longevity. Expand on Pre Dreadnought and Cold War eras and they'll never run out of content. Flatten the grind and operational costs so they become not too focused on high tiers and more evenly distributed for all tiers. Refocus the revenue structure, as it is it's all loaded on T8-T10, the rest of the game content suffers as consequence.

@Hapa_Fodder

Good feedback here that can be used if leadership believes they are out of content...

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Cold War ships would most likely be tier locked and we may find out that 

We literally have Cold War ships in the game; and they fit just fine. Chapy, Irian and Mk. Kutozov and Midway are literally Cold War ships. 

A USN DD split with either tr Mitchers or the Forest T. Sherman's with radar and homing torpedoes would be a good start to the age. Because tr USN didn't develop ASMs until the 70s, the only missile like munitions we could possibly see from the USN is the ASROC launcher; which is a long range torpedo really.

The world you talk about would be exclusively dominated by Soviet ships with their purpose build long range ASMs. The only missiles on USN ships would be SAMs; it wouldn't be fun for anyone not driving a sub or a CV.

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