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kenji_kenji

Ramming should not be a death-touch mechanic

Ramming should not be a death-touch mechanic  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like how Ramming works in the game?

    • no, getting killed by a death touch is not fun
      17
    • yes it's fine as it is
      24

16 comments in this topic

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Good Day fellow Captains

 

I have been playing this game for quite some time now, and have always noticed how ramming doesnt feel exactly fair sometimes.

for example, if you're low hp and about to die you ram and take down a ship with you, fair.

but if both ships are still in a good fighting condition, and both ships are lost it seems such a massive waste of a ship and potential.

as I find ramming is not always beneficial depending on what ship is traded, and depending on the tactical situation. If you are in a good tactical and fighting condition you may want to avoid an opponent that is trying to ram you. in most cases you could succeed in getting most of your ship out of the way but the enemy just clips your stern and that's it you're dead and your opponent got free 100k damage from that. this is especially frustrating if you evade a ram with which the ship would have actually glanced off of yours (which you would expect to have done some acceptable level of damage and survive) except all your opponent had to do was touch you and you're BOTH dead and your opponent get's the last laugh but no team really benefited from that. I understand that currently it is not always a death-touch scenario if smaller ships ram larger ones, but most of the time death-touch is the case.

I would suggest a rework of the ramming mechanic.

I can suggest a type of mechanic based on angles, speed, and displacement of ships. 

in such a way that the damage done would be higher when the approach angle is closer to perpendicular to the target ship (either broadside or bow/stern on), and higher with the relative speed, this damage will be done over time as long as contact is maintained with initial impact doing some damage as well, the damage also increases if your ship displacement is higher than your opponent, the converse is also true if you ram/be rammed by a larger ship.

this allows for some survival if you actively try to avoid a ram and succeed and should be rewarded with lower damage instead of death, if you wish to ram successfully you will have to position your ship correctly and thus be rewarded with a successful ram.

what I would be expecting is rams at shallow angles/low speed to result in ships scraping past each other and doing damage as they are in contact, and good damage/enough to kill if you t-bone someone or ram bow/stern on. this is perceived to feel more realistic and fair.

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yes but the result doesnt feel like it, it just feels like a deathtouch

"Ramming above 5 knots results in major damage."

ye this is the case 90% of the time, so deathtouch happens, and doesnt seem very fair especially if you only get clipped

Edited by kenji_kenji

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Yeah, it's irritating when you literally just brush a ship and both of you explode better than if you both detonated.  I'm aware that in real life, even a "brush" with another resulted in considerable damage, but in WoWs, it's almost always a sinking of both you and the opponent.

 

However, if they change it, awesome.  If not, I'll live. :Smile_Default:

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38 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

Speed, angle of the collision, size are all already calculated:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

Wow, that’s sounds like a load of bull. I always feel like ramming is very crudely calculated. You barely touch and KABOOM both ships instantly explode. Pretty lame. I get that animating a ram just like animating damage, to go further than an instant KABOOM, would take a significant amount of effort. But uhhh. It’s lame. It feels like damage should slowly or rapidly decrease in the health pull based on speed and angles and duration of impact. Instead we are always treated to an instant KABOOM. You do rarely live of course, at a much diminished HP pool, but still. Probably my least favorite mechanic and one that leaves a similar but slightly tastier flavor than death by CV. I’m aware there’s no honor in video games, but it’s a cheap death that’s further cheapened by what seem like a lazy mechanic. 
 

Apologies if this comes off a bit scattered and not particularly well worded by I’m playing with my dog in the yard and wrote this quickly 🤷‍♂️😬

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I think it should apply to green on green collisions as well. Hilarity would ensue as half the team implodes in the spawn.

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Except for the lightest side to side touches any collision would render the ships unable to operate in combat even if they didn't sink. That makes the collision system historically accurate.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Except for the lightest side to side touches any collision would render the ships unable to operate in combat even if they didn't sink. That makes the collision system historically accurate.

Well, based on tonnage, pretty much all BB's in the game would take far less damage from a full speed collision with a DD in many instances than is modeled...

Heck as Adm. Hipper vs Glowworm shows, that probably extends to CA's vs DD's as well.

Edited by lloyd1701

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7 minutes ago, lloyd1701 said:

Well, based on tonnage, pretty much all BB's in the game would take far less damage from a full speed collision with a DD in many instances than is modeled...

Heck as Adm. Hipper vs Glowworm shows, that probably extends to CA's vs DD's as well.

The damage to the bigger ship would still be enough to send them home because they were not combat worthy.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Except for the lightest side to side touches any collision would render the ships unable to operate in combat even if they didn't sink. That makes the collision system historically accurate.

Its not. Should they get flooding and fires as soon as the touch occurs? Yes, but it shouldnt be instant death.

 

With all the collisions ships in the US navy have had, and its *alot*, ive had to read the reports each time there is one, very few have ever sank from it, alot of them still operated under their own power to make it back to port. Most probably could have operated in combat situations until they reached safety. Warships are designed to take damage from missiles these days, collisions while serious and a huge concern dont result in the deaths of warships most of the time.

 

Even in WWII and after, there are examples of ships colliding and surviving. a ship capable of having a bomb fly into the side and survive wont implode from a side scrape like they do now(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Allied_vessels_struck_by_Japanese_special_attack_weapons)

Seriously, ships can survive aircraft flying into them and exploding.

ive tapped ships at 5 knots and killed both ships. ive survived one ramming in game and i ran over a DD in my Tirpitz.

 

The realistic argument also falls apart when your can ram your ship into rocks or run aground and suffer no damage, not always the case, but it is that way now.

 

2 hours ago, Doombeagle said:

I think it should apply to green on green collisions as well. Hilarity would ensue as half the team implodes in the spawn.

If i remember correctly it did, earl early early on the games life? Just like running aground used to hurt you, and hitting the map border killed you.

Edited by Princess_Daystar

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4 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Its not. Should they get flooding and fires as soon as the touch occurs? Yes, but it shouldnt be instant death.

 

With all the collisions ships in the US navy have had, and its *alot*, ive had to read the reports each time there is one, very few have ever sank from it, alot of them still operated under their own power to make it back to port. Most probably could have operated in combat situations until they reached safety. Warships are designed to take damage from missiles these days, collisions while serious and a huge concern dont result in the deaths of warships most of the time.

 

Even in WWII and after, there are examples of ships colliding and surviving. a ship capable of having a bomb fly into the side and survive wont implode from a side scrape like they do now(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Allied_vessels_struck_by_Japanese_special_attack_weapons)

Seriously, ships can survive aircraft flying into them and exploding.

ive tapped ships at 5 knots and killed both ships. ive survived one ramming in game and i ran over a DD in my Tirpitz.

 

The realistic argument also falls apart when your can ram your ship into rocks or run aground and suffer no damage, not always the case, but it is that way now.

Making it back to port under their own power is not being combat worthy.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

Making it back to port under their own power is not being combat worthy.

You are right. But you ignored my point entirely.  Ships should not die instantly if they get rammed at 5.5 knots due to how they are built. Full speed? Sure. 15 knots is even iffy IMO for killing a ship instantly due to how they are built. I think they need to change it from HP to tonnage of the ships involved, tonnage + speed would be far more accurate to the real world than what goes on in game.

Ships *can* fight after collisions, should they? No of course not. But then again, ships shouldnt be fighting after getting struck by an aircraft or a missile, or a shelling, but they did, do and will continue to until we make a weapon that can obliterate a ship in one hit.

 

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Ramming is only death for same size ships... Now, a BB ramming a Cruiser will depend on the speed..

A BB VS DD ram, that is like a torp hit..

So no, ramming is not a death sentence.

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3 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Ramming is only death for same size ships... Now, a BB ramming a Cruiser will depend on the speed..

A BB VS DD ram, that is like a torp hit..

So no, ramming is not a death sentence.

300px-Larry_the_Lobster_%22Observe%22.jp

 

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5 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

300px-Larry_the_Lobster_%22Observe%22.jp

 

Training mod... Ok now redo the test with both ships at full speed ramming at each other...

I have never gotten to ram a BB whole sitting still.. Its nice to know I can take it out (Of course, I am assuming the DD has the ramming signal and the BB doesn't)..

 

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the ramming damage in the game is realistic and fine as it is. If you want to reduce the damage taken, equip the ramming flag and slow down to below 10 knots 

 

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