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Midnitewolf

Battleships hiding behind islands like a cruiser.....What the F???

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There is a disturbing trend I am starting to see more and more of, BB acting like a cruiser and hiding behind Islands.  What the F is what this cause I don't get it?  

In order to win battles and honestly have decent performance and rewards a couple things have to happen.

1) BBs must travel together so they can take turns tanking, share HPs and be able to rotate out, disengage when they are taking too much focus.  If there are no other BBs around, they just get focused and die.  It is critical that the enemies attention be split by the presence of multiple targets.

2) Cruisers need BBs out front for the same reason.  If there is nothing else for the enemy to fire at, they will focus the cruiser AND most cruisers have much shorter range than BBs so if the BBs are hiding behind an island 20 km, they are providing no cover for the BBs.

3) You can't challenge a cap from behind an island.

4) You can't influence the game from behind an island in a BB.  Your primarily stuck with just taking the occasional shot of opportunity because often as not your targets are going to be obscured by the island.

Honestly, seeing BBs literally scoot up to an island and just park there like a cruiser blows my mind, I mean what are they thinking?  Sure they might survive longer but it can't be very rewarding to do so little during the match and worse, potentially leads losing more matches.  I mean I bet a BB pushing out, doing 100-150k damage and dying in a blaze of glory gets twice as many rewards as a BB hiding behind an island, doing maybe 50-60k damage and nothing else, even if they survive.

All I can say is if this trend keeps up then WG needs to buff CVs so they can punish these campers because BBs hiding behind an island like they are a Fiji or Cleveland benefits nothing and no one.

EDIT: THE BUFFING CVs WAS A JOKE!!!

Everyone seems to be fixating on that not the issue of BBs hiding behind islands.

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I’m out of reactions, so just imagine that this is a thumbs down. 

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10 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I’m out of reactions, so just imagine that this is a thumbs down. 

So you are fine with BBs just hiding behind islands?  You think that wins match?  You think that is good for the game?  

Oh....I see, you completely ignored everything aside from where I jokingly say they should buff CVs.  Why does that not surprise me.

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Even some DDs need to hide behind islands these days. Cruisers, especially the light ones need to be far enough forward to intercept DDs.

Maybe strengthening CVs is not the answer unless they would leave DDs alone. If you want to prevent camping or make it unpopular it could be ships like the Asashio making it dangerous for a BB to sit still too long. Should CVs let them live long enough to flank. But that could discourage green BBs from pushing too, running torps have no friends. 

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The only reason people don’t like BBs hiding behind islands is that it doesn’t leave any room for the CA and DDs to hide . 

Edited by clammboy
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17 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

4) You can't influence the game from behind an island in a BB. 

Actually, I imagine Slava or its similiar long range comrades would be able to do this.

As for the issue, its random battles, who expects it to change? (lul)

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Did you notice that the team with most of their Bbs behind islands is the team that always gets rolled and loses?

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OP is under the misguided impression that the opposing sides are actually composed of teams, as opposed to random collections of people thrown together ad hoc. :Smile_teethhappy:

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Just now, STINKWEED_ said:

Did you notice that the team with most of their Bbs behind islands is the team that always gets rolled and loses?

It's a 1:1 correlation.

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This isn't new behavior.  Honestly though, no matter what ship you are in, if you can put yourself in a position to fire on the enemy but it is difficult for the enemy to fire back on you, why wouldn't you?

I understand why it's done.  It's part of the role of the CV though, to make them decide to move or die.

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I see lots of BBs push.  And I push a lot too.  

One thing to keep in mind is the push or tank is often depending on the ship.  I'll push all day in my Bismarck.  My California....ummh....I'll push, but she is so slow everyone "thinks" I'm hanging back.  Some BBs are brawlers, some are mid and long range shooters.  Gotta play the ship to the ship's strengths while also adapting to the game.  Sometimes, a brawler's gotta  hold back.  Sometimes a long range shooter has to push up. 

The map, the players, the match making...all drive what you gotta be...where you gotta go. 

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1 minute ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

Even some DDs need to hide behind islands these days. Cruisers, especially the light ones need to be far enough forward to intercept DDs.

Maybe strengthening CVs is not the answer unless they would leave DDs alone. If you want to prevent camping or make it unpopular it could be ships like the Asashio making it dangerous for a BB to sit still too long. Should CVs let them live long enough to flank. But that could discourage green BBs from pushing too, running torps have no friends. 

No, it not some tactical situation in game like that, rather it is just BBs from the get go, running up behind islands and shutting off their engine.  It is the same exact thing I see cruisers like Des Moines, Minotaur, Fiji, Cleveland and other, high shell arc, squishy cruiser would do and then as the battle progresses, they creep from island to island.  I even saw a Pommern doing it last night I mean what they hell, that is one of the best close quarters ships in the game currently.  

I mean I am used to BBs cowering in the rear and engaging from long range but at least there, they can actually engage at long range and other enemy ships will engage them back.  However, hiding behind an island means they aren't sharing HP and that is critical. There has to be multiple targets to split the enemy attention and increase everyone's survivability.  Not only that, I can't see how they are even achieving any sort of effective damage when they have such restricted fields of fire.  I mean I have some of the island humping cruisers, but they island hump because they have high shell arcs plus have the maneuverability and acceleration to relocate as necessary.  BBs can't do that, I mean I really can't think of one BB that can.  They just mostly become static turrets with limited fields of fire and I can't see how that can be efficient for them in terms of XP and credit earning, let alone how that is a fun playstyle.

What it does do however, is makes it awfully hard to win a match because from what I have seen, 9 times out of 10, the team with the most island humping BBs loses.

 

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9 minutes ago, Balon_Greyjoy said:

OP is under the misguided impression that the opposing sides are actually composed of teams, as opposed to random collections of people thrown together ad hoc. :Smile_teethhappy:

I am not even talking about teams.   I am talking about what is most effective for the individual.   Surely people can actually be smart enough to realize the benefits of traveling together, I mean it is obvious they do when you look at all the lemming trains we see all the time.  You would also think they would realize how a BB island hoping and humping like a cruiser, isn't inefficient.  The only other scenario I can envision is that these people are just so bad at playing that hiding behind an island actually boosts their performance and that is a scary thought. 

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36 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

You can't influence the game from behind an island in a BB. 

I know some fire breathing HE spammers that will prove you're wrong on this one.

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4 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I see lots of BBs push.  And I push a lot too.  

One thing to keep in mind is the push or tank is often depending on the ship.  I'll push all day in my Bismarck.  My California....ummh....I'll push, but she is so slow everyone "thinks" I'm hanging back.  Some BBs are brawlers, some are mid and long range shooters.  Gotta play the ship to the ship's strengths while also adapting to the game.  Sometimes, a brawler's gotta  hold back.  Sometimes a long range shooter has to push up. 

The map, the players, the match making...all drive what you gotta be...where you gotta go. 

Well I do agree with you and with for example, my Republique, she is much better hanging back at range due to her long range accuracy and somewhat squishy exterior.  Same with something like the Thunderer but it is obvious that the more aggressive team usually wins.  You would think people would pick up on that.   Also it is obvious that a group of ships is more powerful then a single ship.  That is another thing you would think people would pick up on.  

Don't get me wrong, I totally get why BBs play passively and also understand how easy it is to get into a cycle of withdrawing.  I mean when a group of BBs are pushing one generally gets more focus than others so that ship will fall back to let the other BBs take damage.  The other BBs take this as a sign of weakness and they too withdraw, but even that works to a degree because while it is the individual desire to preserve his ship, it still leads to multiple ships sharing their HP pool and allowing damaged BBs to heal up before re-engaging.

The Island humping though, that just leads no where for anyone.  That is why I am completely lost why I am starting to see it happen in every match.

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Just now, Umikami said:

I know some fire breathing HE spammers that will prove you're wrong on this one.

Only to a degree.  I would bet they would have much, much more influence being out and more active because if nothing else they will take some of the damage that would have went to another ship plus they would run into many more opportunities to fire that HE.

Also I am not saying you never should use an Island from cover.  I am just saying that as a BB using islands like this as your overall strategy, has to be like shooting yourself in the foot.

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The whole island thing reminds me of kids playing gunfight. Run to cover as fast as you can then snipe. 

WG must be OK with it or we would see Ocean map more often. 

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13 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I know some fire breathing HE spammers that will prove you're wrong on this one.

laughs in Des Moines

 

It's not being behind an island that bothers me, it's taking your guns out of the fight. Whether that's hugging an island so close you can't shoot over it (or trying to pop in and out like a tank), sitting in the back, or exploring other maps. BBs are the easiest class to survive in. They are also IMO the hardest to play effectively. Most players just can't think further ahead than "must. kill. that. guy." and "must. not. die."

The most infuriating is when you're in a DM or Wooster happily spamming HE from behind an island and some moron in a BB thinks it will work for him too and tries and shove his 80K HP worth of BB into the same space as you, drifts out because you know, he doesn't fit, attracts incoming fire which hits you, all while being totally ineffective because even catapults couldn't clear the island if they were as close as he is. I'm behind the island because I have zero armor. You have twice my HP and armor that laughs at Yamato shells, get your cowardly rear end in gear and go use it.

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I can get where your coming from. But some battleships are made for mid to close range like the Kremlin it can use the islands to push but hard to do if alot of HE spamming ships focus her.

Mostly it's about knowing your ship and sadly not alot of high tier players know or free xp or premium their way up high with no clue on what they are doing. 

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46 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I see lots of BBs push.  And I push a lot too.  

One thing to keep in mind is the push or tank is often depending on the ship.  I'll push all day in my Bismarck.  My California....ummh....I'll push, but she is so slow everyone "thinks" I'm hanging back.  Some BBs are brawlers, some are mid and long range shooters.  Gotta play the ship to the ship's strengths while also adapting to the game.  Sometimes, a brawler's gotta  hold back.  Sometimes a long range shooter has to push up. 

The map, the players, the match making...all drive what you gotta be...where you gotta go. 

This is true, not all BBs can push in the same way. Push an Iowa/Monty into an early game brawl... gonna have a short game. Sit in the back and snipe with your GKF... not helping anyone. They all have their use cases.

That being said, a Yamato standing still hugging an island and "biding his time" is just fodder to get burned and sunk.

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When I play BB's I push when its reasonable to do so and take cover when its reasonable to do so.  You can't trust your teammates to support you in randoms unless you are playing in a div and you are practically advocating just yoloing as a BB and "going out in a blaze of glory" and at the same time said BB's shouldn't push alone, so which is it?

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

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Actually, it's good when a BB, cruiser and sometimes a DD hides behind an island because they offer no protection from a carrier.

In fact, you are making yourself a much high priority target. Because? 

  1. You are stationary. Sitting ducks are easier to shoot than flying or moving ducks. Even a waddling duck is harder to hit. 
  2. You have at least one side of your ship blocked by an island. Evasion of torps is much more challenging for you. 
  3. You have at least one side of your ship blocked by an island. I can, quite often, use the island to diminish your AA/Flak against my planes. 
  4. If you are really tucked in there, my team can move up and terrorize your laundry for you. 
  5. I can drop fighters near you that you cannot take out quickly so you'll be lit up much longer than if you were in open water. 

There's probably more reasons why carriers like seeing you park near an island, but a lot of their reasons are also good reasons for any ship having torpedoes. 

So while it might be a-okay short term, don't put out a mailbox or drop a landline. 

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1 hour ago, Midnitewolf said:

There is a disturbing trend I am starting to see more and more of, BB acting like a cruiser and hiding behind Islands. 

What's even "funnier" is when I sidle up to a rock for protection in my Des Moines and then am rammed out into the open by the allied BB that's following me.

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THE BUFFING CVs WAS A JOKE!!!

I've been away from the game for some months as my father died and I had to deal with funerals and estate stuff. However, playing CVs a few times over the past few days, I find them now actually harder to play as the aiming reticle and spotting distance seem to have changed. It seems that I'm losing more planes to AA too, though this may be due to my lack of practice. 

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43 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

It's not being behind an island that bothers me, it's taking your guns out of the fight.

You need to think about this from another angle.  Let me give you an example.  I had a match, I got burned down to 15%.  I literally sat behind an Island doing nothing for 3 full repairs.

You might say this is what I am talking about!  I looked at it from another perspective, the game was even, there was a lot of time left and had I remained in the fight at BEST I would have got 3 more volleys before getting sunk that largely would have had no impact on the game.  Me "peacing out" for a little while, ended up being far more valuable to my team in the long run.  At the cost of a few BB volleys at an earlier point in the game, they got a nearly full health BB at a critical juncture.

You have to weigh the pros and cons and think about the whole game, not just "right now".  Not saying everyone is always doing X for the right reasons, but yes, sometimes taking yourself out of the fight for a little while can be far more valuable to the team than just staying in the fight "on principle".

 

 

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