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krzybill

Casual players at high tier

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My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

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I think if the serious elite players were ever separated from the casual players, they would find it very difficult to get in to a game.

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4 things

 

Ignore chat  -  anybody in chat who says others are not good enough and should delete this game is an insta mute forever from me - the majority of players don't do that.

&

Unicum players are such a small % of the overall player base and such a small % of the revenue WG gets from WoW that they are not worth considering changing the format of the game for.

&

The vast majority of high tier players are at your level.

 Most importantly

Play your game - have fun

Edited by Anonymous50
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Nope, nothing can be done to isolate one type of player with the other... Unless they say they're one or the other...

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7 minutes ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

There shouldn't be separation of players, that's dangerously discriminatory.

You are free to select the tier you play, nobody is forcing you to play at higher tiers. You can very well select a more comfortable tier as you learn the ropes of the game, no need to rush up (which is a recipe to fail). 

You are free to play higher tiers if you like, but understand it is more likely you will be facing veteran players. Your playing experience is not likely to improve in the short term, learning the game takes time.

Welcome to the game, have fun. Chat can be rough sometimes, but most of the old chaps are used to casual´s performance issues and play accounting for it, take some solace in the knowledge that the most vocal ranters are usually not very far removed from being casuals themselves.

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I used to play a popular RTS game where the players themselves did the matchmaking. After a while, the "elites," not wanting any "lesser" players in their games, started playing only amongst themselves. It took them hours to gather enough players for a game.

Just do the best you can in games and try to get better by researching ships, watching videos, and practicing aiming in the Training Room and in Coop. And remember, most of the players at high tiers are not all that much better than average themselves.

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25 minutes ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

Honestly, if you are interested in is win rate and getting better.  Find the one or two ships you perform best in, and do nothing but play those for at least 1 to 2 months.

Doing grinds of different ship types, nation flavors, gameplay strategies and captain skills will make your win rate all over the place.  There are more stats and peculiarities to keep track of.  Eventually you can adjust easier, and it goes both ways with strengths and weaknesses.

When I first started focusing on win rate and getting better I had 2 ships I would start every play session with.  My win rate is not great but I'm pure solo and can only donate so much time.

Also one last thing, without looking at your stats.  If you prefer a particular ship type and find yourself prone to damage from a different ship type, ie BB vs DD.  Learn that other ship type, that way you are better at countering it's offensive capabilities.

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Don't worry. Having played thousands of games at tier X, I can guarantee you: there are plenty of bad players up there. And even if you're a detriment to your team for a while, there's almost certainly someone on the other team doing the same thing.

It all balances out eventually.

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krzybill,

There are a number of players who can trigger people and it is not just because you have played fewer games.  There are people who will complain about players with more games just as frequently as you receive complaints.  I am not going to state that I do not make comments to players in games because I do.  I never use curse words which is probably why I have never been chat banned.  I find that when a player asks what should I have done or your right I had tunnel vision, I will usually soften my tone and state something along the lines of, learn from it and try to do better in the future.

With all that said, it takes something pretty outrageous or obviously bad to set me off.  Sinking in less than 2 minutes of battle (unless it is detonation and not in ranked), being in no position to fire your guns with full hp, or so far away from the battle and not even trying to help the team with full hp will usually get a comment from me.  Now if there is a player hiding because they are healing up before getting back into the battle, I completely understand.

Another thing that will trigger me is when someone is too vocal in chat such as constantly clicking on squares in the mini map or the quick reply buttons over and over again.  Of course then I rarely can get anything into chat.  Along the same lines when a player that is not helping the team is berating a player that is doing a great job for the team, I will definitely say something in chat to defend the player helping the team.  A perfect example is recently I was in a battle where the enemy was rolling our flank and a Lyon was running away with 5 other ships on the A row of the map.  They were being chased by 3 enemy ships.  The Lyon player was complaining about an Ostergotland that was trying to get caps for the team (the enemy had all the caps at the time (especially with 5 of our ships on the A row as previously stated).  The Oster ended up getting 2 caps and 4 kills for the team and was at the top of the leaderboard at the end.  I told the Lyon player to be quiet because the Oster was doing great during the match while the Lyon was complaining about how the Oster was playing.

With all that said, you are new enough and will get better.  I at one time had a 43% win rate (I am now at 50%, still not great but getting better).  I am no unicum player and still have a lot to learn.  You too will get better.  Ask questions about how you should have done something.  I have found the the Super-Unicum players when approached in this way are usually very willing to give advice.  Now not every bit of advice will be good for you because we all have different playing styles.  I have seen a person absolutely dominate in an Omaha where as I try to emulate what I have seen and I do not even last 10 minutes into the match usually with anywhere from 30k to 50k damage depending on how many fires I can start.  So not everything will pertain to you, but listen and see what will work for you and make you a better player.

Lastly, do not worry about some of the saltiest players.  No one will ever make them happy and you just do your best.

C130 signing out

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1 hour ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

Number of battles doesn't mean much. There are players with 4 times my number of battles who are far worse than you. Willingness to see your mistakes and improve matters more than sheer battlecount ever will.

And WG won't ever do that kind of skill check, it's too late in the game's lifespan for it, plus they don't believe in that kind of thing anyway.

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1 hour ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

1st off...Welcome to he Forums :-)

Actually...the tier of the ship is what's detramenting you.

There is a lot of mechanics involved in this game & it takes a while to get fairly good at just some of them...not to mention mastering any of them...let alone all of them.

The higher tiers are not specifically for just the ones that have mastered them...but there is a much better chance of running into those that have up at those tiers...& there unfortunately isn't a large enough player base for just them to play by themselves w/out having to wait a long time in queue so the higher tiers will always remain open to all.

I'd suggest dropping back down to lower tiers to learn more of the basics before jumping into the higher tiers. The reward are of course better in the higher tiers...but only if you last long enough to survive to earn them.

Lower tiers will give you a chance to last longer & be able to contribute more before being sent back to port.

My suggestion is to make sure you have experience in all the ship types in at least 3 or 4 different lines before going up beyond T7.

But for familiarity it is best to do each ship type 1 at a time...like run a bunch of cruisers to T7...them a bunch of DDs...then BBs...& at least try out CVs in 1 line through T4 just so you can get a good understanding of how each ship type performs so you can understand how to counter them in the other types.

The reason I say to do a bunch of the same types at once is so you don't jump into a thin skinned light cruiser & charge a BB for a torp run because the last battle was a DD battle & you forgot you weren't in a DD this match. Less confusing yourself that way.

Hope this helps out...& @UltimateNewbiehas a good list of suggestions (w/links for reference) for newer players trying to learn the ropes.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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1 hour ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

Oink! Good or bad players are not the issue. The real problem that infects the game is Noobism. Some Noobists are bad, some are good, some extremely good. You are not a Noobist, but unfortunately you haven't opened your eyes yet. Join Me! Goltz! 

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I wouldn't worry, the higher tiers are already like 95% casual players.

It's just that some of them have been around here for longer, so they have higher toxicity buildup.

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1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Oink!

This is Goltz for "Hello"; it is also Goltz for "Goodbye", "How Ya Doin'?", "Is That Cake?"; "Are Those Beers Free?"; and "Is That Your Sister?" It's a simple tongue, from simple minds.

1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Good or bad players are not the issue.

The MAGIC BLACK CRYSTAL EIGHT BALL said so!

1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

The real problem that infects the game is Noobism.

And you got that right from the source!

1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Some Noobists are bad, some are good, some extremely good.

In Goltzville, this is considered deep thinking; look closely and you may actually see steam coming out of his pointy little ears!

1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

You are not a Noobist, but unfortunately you haven't opened your eyes yet.

You have failed to recognize the beauty that is Goltzizm and send him a check; it's a VERY common failure!

1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Join Me! Goltz! 

Let the wallowing begin .... preferably somewhere else. I suggest the free clinic, thereby killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

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# of games played is not a good indicator of ability at a certain tier at all. many top tier players only have a few thousand games, and many players with tens of thousands of games still play like complete potatoes.

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6 hours ago, Anonymous50 said:

4 things

 

Ignore chat  -  anybody in chat who says others are not good enough and should delete this game is an insta mute forever from me - the majority of players don't do that.

&

Unicum players are such a small % of the overall player base and such a small % of the revenue WG gets from WoW that they are not worth considering changing the format of the game for.

&

The vast majority of high tier players are at your level.

 Most importantly

Play your game - have fun

Exactly this.
you vs 23 other idiots no matter how good or bad their stats are. Play YOUR game.Any time someone tell me how to play my ship I tell them them exactly this "until they are sitting in my lap and willing to pay for my ship addictions the need to shut the hell up"

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6 hours ago, krzybill said:

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Firstly, welcome to WoWS and the forums. 

Sadly, you can’t stop wankers in any online game. There will always be a subset of players who think the reason you exist is to play the game exactly like they want you to, instead of having fun. Fortunately, there aren’t too many players like that in this game, and virtually none of them are the elite ‘unicum’ players. Good players will be happy to help you get better with the game and answer questions; bad players may mean well but give terrible advice. Both types could have thousands of battles.

Don’t worry though - if you do want to improve quickly at the game the key thing is a growth mindset: at the end of each battle, ask yourself what went well and why, and what went badly and why. Each battle seek to maximise the former and minimise the latter. And some of the links I’ll post below are incredibly helpful. 

6 hours ago, krzybill said:

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

I have copied some links below that I think will be really helpful for you (thanks for the referral, @IfYouSeeKhaos!) Also, if we’re both online at the same time I would be happy to division up with you - just send me an in-game message when you’re on. 


strongly encourage you to read the following: 

  • How to set up your game client to get the information you need to win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCb96CLCs4
  • (For brand New Players - a full comprehensive guide) iChase's How to get good at World of Warships - I wish this was around when I started!
  • (For New Players) - Wargaming's 'How It Works' series that explains the game's mechanics - important to learn these as it differs to real life.
  • (For New Players looking to become Intermediate) my Ship Role Quick Reference Guide to understand how to get the best out of your ship every battle and how to deal with enemy ships of the same type. 
  • (For Intermediate players) LittleWhiteMouse's guide to How to take control of your win rate:  https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/75077-how-to-control-your-win-rate/
  • For players at any level who are interested in personalised feedback on a particular battle, get in touch with Lord_Zath and his replay centre - its an amazing service that you should take advantage of.  
  • You are under absolutely no obligation to spend money on this game - it is entirely free to play including at high tiers. 
    • Understanding the economics of WoWS and tips for playing as free-to-play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgwH2w-k7U
    • Still, if you are interested in buying a premium ship, a discussion on what premium ships are good value for newer players can be found on my New Player Guide Premium Ships for New Players.
      • The second post in this thread has some good advice on how to rapidly become a better player through teamwork and positioning - see Section 3 - its worth a read!

 

6 hours ago, krzybill said:


Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

Unfortunately given the way the game is structured, I don’t think that is going to work. There would be relatively few players who have just unlocked their first T10 ship around the same time as you, so the battle queue would takes ages to fill. Secondly, what constitutes skill is hotly debated in this game, and is hard to capture in most metrics. One would assume winrate, damage and survivability might all be good indicators, but plenty of players might be carried to higher win rates through divisions, produce higher damage through farming instead of dealing high quality damage, and/or camping at the back of the map to increase survivability. Plus, players who drive battleships are more likely to have higher damage and survivability than destroyer mains, so it would have to be adjusted for ship type. And even then, this game isn’t great at awarding large XP for actions that are critical to winning battles, like valuable spotting, doing high quality damage against destroyers whenever they are seen instead of doing higher (but less impactful) damage to battleships, Smoking up a wounded teammate so they can heal up, being the only player to cap or defend your cap to enable your team to get the kills to win, or a myriad of other Important things. Still, good to see you’re thinking about the problem!
 

Good luck!

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3 hours ago, Umikami said:

This is Goltz for "Hello"; it is also Goltz for "Goodbye", "How Ya Doin'?", "Is That Cake?"; "Are Those Beers Free?"; and "Is That Your Sister?" It's a simple tongue, from simple minds.

Much like Groot-speak.

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7 hours ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself?  The tier of the ship is obviously not sufficient anymore, not sure if it ever was.  I've noticed a lot of frustration in chat and lopsided matches seem to be the norm.

With 650 battles total I've worked my way up several tiers, but the highest I've got is the Iowa.  This is still nowhere near the ~13k battles the player who recently ripped me a new one in chat has (apparently I need to unsub).  I'll likely never play at that persons level.  Even if I wanted to play at a super unicum level RL would never let me have the spare time to get there.

Even though I'm a casual player I do enjoy the competitive nature of the game, I play to win and certainly never intend to let my team down.  With that said, I've made it to a point where I'm regularly in Tier 10 matches and where the poor super unicum sods with 1000s of battles are stuck with me on their team.  And likely lots of other players like me.

Thoughts on a high tier Random battle mode that only allows player with a minimum amount of experience?  Whether that's number of battles, number of tech tier 10 ships unlocked, or maybe base it on their skill level entirely?

 

Just ignore chat, if they are talkative they are mostly jerks.  There are a few nice people, but don’t get worked up over them.  One jumped on me the day.  He got killed early, then complained I was back a little in a thunderer.  I said I had 100k+ damage and 3 kills, get back to me when you have something and blocked him.  

Tosic people aren’t worth it.  

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Do what you think is right in games you play.

Meanwhile, there're tons of good guiding videos made by experts (iChasegaming, e.g.) about how to improve your skill level on YouTube. Find some time to watch them, even if that means you'll miss a day of gameplay or two, because they do help a lot.

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8 hours ago, krzybill said:

My question is, what can be done to separate the elite players from more casual players like myself? 

Go play ranked or clan wars.

Random battles are and have always been the casual mode, see no reason to change this.

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I remember when i would get talked down to all the time in tanks for playing tier 8+ with a 49% WR, and 20k matches. Some things never change, no matter the game.

 

play to the best of your ability and ignore chat unless its helpful to the match.

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i would love to see MM on WR.  let the unicorns and self important elitists fight each other and see the reality of not everyone can have over 50% win rate.  also it would rid us of the toxic elitists.  win win

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Don't worry about what someone said, we have unicums in my clan that are regularly told to uninstall.  

I have yet to see a player with a 90%+WR so apparently those keyboard warriors are not perfect enough to do a carry.

My wr per tier was like yours at each tier when I played a lot. But at some point I got bored with playing or had a really bad game so I watch some youtubes on how to play "x" ship. Its really helped me to show steady increases. You will find some yt'ers dont teach you much about how to play or positioning.  Some are excellent. 

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