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SoothingWhaleSongEU

Speed & scale factor nerding

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I posted this back in July on the EU forums, but now I have a tiny NA account so I'll share it here as it's a subject that might be interesting to literally dozens of people. 

Whilst WoWS isn't the fastest paced game. 30 knots is a shade under 56 km/h or 15.4 m/s but you quickly realise you're going a lot quicker than this in the game. It doesn't take over 10 minutes to go 10km.

I've been trying to work out have scaled up in speed and size WoWS is and finally found an official answer a few weeks ago. Which actually mostly matched what I'd worked out.

Personally I'd like to see an April's Fools where they remove the scale factors. To the joy of anyone who has used the term "unrealistic" whilst discussing the game.

Short Answer:
Ships are twice as big as they should be, but scaled to each other.
Ships & torpedoes travel x5.2 faster than reality.
Shells fly x2.61 faster than reality. Half of the speed multiplication of ships and torpedoes.

This is from finally finding an official WG answer. (I think it was originally a RU Q&A back in September 2016):

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/31444-some-interesting-info-around-the-world/?page=183&tab=comments#comment-1295333

https://www.mmowg.net/world-of-warships-qa-14-09-2016/

Q: I heard that the ships move five times the real speed and the shells fly twice as fast. Have you increased the speed, or shrunk the distances? How does doubling the speed of shells influence their ballistics?

A: Let me explain this in some detail. 1. There are two types of distance measures in the game, the ship meter (relevant to the ships) and the ballistic meter (relevant to the shells in flight).

2. One ship meter equals two shell meters, which means that the ships are twice their real size.

3. The ballistics trajectories are computed with maximum realism, but are flattened to make tracing shots and aiming easier.

4. The speeds of ships, torpedoes and planes are increased by a factor 5.22 relative the ballistic meter.

5. The speeds of shell are increased by a factor 2.61 relative to the ballistic meter.

6. The detonators on the AP shells are modelled based on gameplay considerations.
 

Longer answer that frankly is probably obsolete:

Before I confuse everyone, just need to clarify that the one thing that is right in the in game UI is the times for shooting and torps.

If you shoot with your Warspite at a target 12Km away and the game says it'll take 7 seconds, then the shells land 7 seconds later. Likewise Myoko's 62 knot torpedoes do take 1 minute to reach their full 10km range as the UI indicates.

However if you do some brief mental maths you realise that Warspite's shells are going a lot faster than 732 m/s listed in port and likewise something going 62knots wouldn't cover 2km in a minute.

Size

Ships also look... kinda big compared to the scenery. I read on the forums somewhere that ships are twice as large, and a very patient friend helping me measure my Bismarck (hur hur etc) in a training room confirmed it indeed about 500m rather than almost exactly 250m as it was in reality.

I am pretty certain they are correctly scaled relative to each other, but all of them are twice as big.

 

Speed

So quick maths. Myoko's torps "62knot" torps cover 10km in 59.87 seconds rather than taking 314 seconds. So they travel about 5.2x faster in game.

Likewise if you sail straight at 30knots at something measured 1km in game you find you do it in around 12 seconds rather than 65ish seconds it would actually take.

So Torps & ships are vastly quicker, but appear scaled to each other. This works out to match the official answer of x5.22

 

Shell Flight times

Shell flight times are rather more tricky, because between shells arc and slow down and WoWS models this.

Using values found here for historical recorded value of flight times for Hood and Prince of Wales on this website: 

http://www.hmshood.com/history/denmarkstrait/shelltimes2.htm

 Not going to lie, I'm taking these on blind faith.

I used Warspite and King George V which are as close to those guns and shells as I can find.

Made a spreadsheet (because of course I did)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qeXaHoXTcF9Dna7OUBUMoLFMLtzDoKq9RvqkyNOkiuw/edit?usp=sharing

Warspite was consistently about 2.7-2.8 times faster flight time in game KGV was about 2.8-2.9 times faster in game. Which is pretty close to the official answer of x2.61


Rate of Fire
I think the *base* numbers are vaguely historically accurate. but ultimately tweaked for game balance.
But MBR, adrenaline rush, and esp. the reload boosters can rapidly reduce this. 
I likewise dread to think exactly what the poor French loaders are doing in my Jean Bart.

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LWM was working on scaling some time ago.  Your mention of Warspite has invoked the Blood Goddess, hopefully in her nerdly aspect.  @LittleWhiteMouse

All hail!

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Would it therefore be reasonable to assume that ports are therefore 2x larger and scaled to the ships?
 

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40 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

I posted this back in July on the EU forums, but now I have a tiny NA account so I'll share it here as it's a subject that might be interesting to literally dozens of people. 

Whilst WoWS isn't the fastest paced game. 30 knots is a shade under 56 km/h or 15.4 m/s but you quickly realise you're going a lot quicker than this in the game. It doesn't take over 10 minutes to go 10km.

I've been trying to work out have scaled up in speed and size WoWS is and finally found an official answer a few weeks ago. Which actually mostly matched what I'd worked out.

Personally I'd like to see an April's Fools where they remove the scale factors. To the joy of anyone who has used the term "unrealistic" whilst discussing the game.

Short Answer:
Ships are twice as big as they should be, but scaled to each other.
Ships & torpedoes travel x5.2 faster than reality.
Shells fly x2.61 faster than reality. Half of the speed multiplication of ships and torpedoes.

This is from finally finding an official WG answer. (I think it was originally a RU Q&A back in September 2016):

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/31444-some-interesting-info-around-the-world/?page=183&tab=comments#comment-1295333

https://www.mmowg.net/world-of-warships-qa-14-09-2016/

Q: I heard that the ships move five times the real speed and the shells fly twice as fast. Have you increased the speed, or shrunk the distances? How does doubling the speed of shells influence their ballistics?

A: Let me explain this in some detail. 1. There are two types of distance measures in the game, the ship meter (relevant to the ships) and the ballistic meter (relevant to the shells in flight).

2. One ship meter equals two shell meters, which means that the ships are twice their real size.

3. The ballistics trajectories are computed with maximum realism, but are flattened to make tracing shots and aiming easier.

4. The speeds of ships, torpedoes and planes are increased by a factor 5.22 relative the ballistic meter.

5. The speeds of shell are increased by a factor 2.61 relative to the ballistic meter.

6. The detonators on the AP shells are modelled based on gameplay considerations.
 

Longer answer that frankly is probably obsolete:

Before I confuse everyone, just need to clarify that the one thing that is right in the in game UI is the times for shooting and torps.

If you shoot with your Warspite at a target 12Km away and the game says it'll take 7 seconds, then the shells land 7 seconds later. Likewise Myoko's 62 knot torpedoes do take 1 minute to reach their full 10km range as the UI indicates.

However if you do some brief mental maths you realise that Warspite's shells are going a lot faster than 732 m/s listed in port and likewise something going 62knots wouldn't cover 2km in a minute.

Size

Ships also look... kinda big compared to the scenery. I read on the forums somewhere that ships are twice as large, and a very patient friend helping me measure my Bismarck (hur hur etc) in a training room confirmed it indeed about 500m rather than almost exactly 250m as it was in reality.

I am pretty certain they are correctly scaled relative to each other, but all of them are twice as big.

 

Speed

So quick maths. Myoko's torps "62knot" torps cover 10km in 59.87 seconds rather than taking 314 seconds. So they travel about 5.2x faster in game.

Likewise if you sail straight at 30knots at something measured 1km in game you find you do it in around 12 seconds rather than 65ish seconds it would actually take.

So Torps & ships are vastly quicker, but appear scaled to each other. This works out to match the official answer of x5.22

 

Shell Flight times

Shell flight times are rather more tricky, because between shells arc and slow down and WoWS models this.

Using values found here for historical recorded value of flight times for Hood and Prince of Wales on this website: 

http://www.hmshood.com/history/denmarkstrait/shelltimes2.htm

 Not going to lie, I'm taking these on blind faith.

I used Warspite and King George V which are as close to those guns and shells as I can find.

Made a spreadsheet (because of course I did)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qeXaHoXTcF9Dna7OUBUMoLFMLtzDoKq9RvqkyNOkiuw/edit?usp=sharing

Warspite was consistently about 2.7-2.8 times faster flight time in game KGV was about 2.8-2.9 times faster in game. Which is pretty close to the official answer of x2.61


Rate of Fire
I think the *base* numbers are vaguely historically accurate. but ultimately tweaked for game balance.
But MBR, adrenaline rush, and esp. the reload boosters can rapidly reduce this. 
I likewise dread to think exactly what the poor French loaders are doing in my Jean Bart.

Good of you to do the math, but scaling was changed in Alpha for several reasons.

1) Ppl couldnt hit a target.

2) matches took forever.

The one thing that wasnt changed in scaling was the islands, I believe they are still the original scale.

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52 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

The one thing that wasnt changed in scaling was the islands, I believe they are still the original scale. 

This makes much more sense then, because I always wondered why the scenery was so tiny (also visible in some ports if you look at other ships in the 'background'). If all of them were designed 'to scale' and then early on it was decided to scale up ships and speeds etc. then rescaling the scenery is just something nobody ever bothered to do. I mean, lots of extra work people could put into other things.

I am curious to see whether this will get addressed somehow should this game go to 1.0 as WoT did?

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