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amoncz

There we go again, losing streak with MM not fixed

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just played in team of AVG WR around 48% against team with AVG WR above 55%. How is this balanced game? I'm asking again. Why we have to play like this? When you will finally fix this and make both teams even in skill? This is actually violations of some agreement i would say against everyone who pays you guys. We pay you money but you are not able to provide fair game for us. I don't want to face division of 3 superunicums with bellow average team. I'm just a average players as well. Why you can't fix it and make this game fair for everyone?

Edited by amoncz
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It is by design, don't take the game serious. Play to have fun.

Best thing I ever did is hide my stats.

Not having any idea idea about your win rate, XP etc is a very nice way of playing.

 

 

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but that's not fun. When you get run over in 8 minutes because your team have weak players. I have nothing against them. Not everyone can be good or great. But make it fair. Ths is just ridiculous and is going on for years.

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Skill-based MM is a very common suggestion brought up since the start of WoWs, but WG does not plan to implement it for various reasons. 

If WoWs gets frustrating, I would recommend taking a break and do something else. A walk around the area, cleaning the house, etc. No one is forcing you to play WoWs and you can always come back later. 

 

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10 minutes ago, amoncz said:

just played in team of AVG WR around 48% against team with AVG WR above 55%. How is this balanced game? I'm asking again. Why we have to play like this? When you will finally fix this and make both teams even in skill? This is actually violations of some agreement i would say for everyone who pays you guys.

OK, you have collected one datum -- now collect 99 more and test for a significant difference of average win percentage between the teams. Make sure to throw out any matches in which there are players who have hidden their stats. Keep the other variables constant by using the same same ship and playing the same game type for each battle.

Edited by Snargfargle
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From a math POV, both percentages you stated are in the %90 percentile for all regions WOWS server population...

Which means, its not only is it possible in everyone playing session to see these WR% of players... Its expected...

SBMM will not change this because WR% is not and never will be a marker of skill. I've yet to see a proven marker to quantify the meaning of "skill." Therefor, SBMM doesn't work the way you think it does... The math disagrees with you.

 

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Stop looking at MMM. I have had two games in the last week where statements in chat coupled with what I observed in game led me to believe that what some of our players saw in MMM led them to play timidly even with a 2:1 ship advantage on that part of the map. 

I have had games where the other team was a prohibitive favorite (football analogy: Clemson vs Furman) and we waxed their azz. 

MMM can be a self fulfilling prophecy of a loss. 

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18 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

If WoWs gets frustrating, I would recommend taking a break and do something else. A walk around the area, cleaning the house, etc. No one is forcing you to play WoWs and you can always come back later. 

This


 

If the OP is referencing random MM. it is exactly as it says. Random. It’s just a algorithm that filled ship class open slots from a que of available ships. It doesn’t look at skill, WR, PR, clan tag. Just fills open slots.

 

Now having said that. Does it have trends? Favorable and non favorable? You can bet your bottom dollar it does.

Last night and this morning was brass knuckles rough. This afternoon it was great. Just playing at a different time made all the difference in the world.

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28 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Skill-based MM is a very common suggestion brought up since the start of WoWs, but WG does not plan to implement it for various reasons. 

If WoWs gets frustrating, I would recommend taking a break and do something else. A walk around the area, cleaning the house, etc. No one is forcing you to play WoWs and you can always come back later. 

 

A word some know well. Why not just come out and say why it will never be used? I heard it from the horse mouth in Wg that all too common excuse. Its unfair to the skilled player.  It was used in another past tank game and it wasn't in two weeks before these skilled players went complaining about how unfair it was to them and it was removed by next patch even though most battles that were once blow outs dropped  by easily over half. Now that game is a ghost town and even WOT has lost a huge chunk its own player base in the last few years.  

Now I'm not attacking you anyone personally about this by posting my experience with it and seen who complains the most when it was used.

As to WG . I would like to have it explained in detail on how it unfair to any player when it matches by win rates of each player. Is there a possibility that win rates may be bloated or unreal? Curious.

Edited by motleytanker
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15 hours ago, amoncz said:

just played in team of AVG WR around 48% against team with AVG WR above 55%. How is this balanced game? I'm asking again. Why we have to play like this? When you will finally fix this and make both teams even in skill? This is actually violations of some agreement i would say against everyone who pays you guys. We pay you money but you are not able to provide fair game for us. I don't want to face division of 3 superunicums with bellow average team. I'm just a average players as well. Why you can't fix it and make this game fair for everyone?

For the love of god don't bring that crap here.  Seriously, uninstall the win rate prediction mod immediately because it is so damn toxic it is not even funny.   The reason you lose when people are using those mods is that tean with the lower win rate automatically assumes they are going to lose and don't even try to win.  Then they come on the forums to complain about the MM being bad when it is just their attitude about the chances of winning the match that is bad. 

Seriously, anything between plus or minus 5-10% of a 50% win rate is within margin of error and could realistically go either way unless you give the hell up before even starting the game because you believe your going to lose.  TOXIC, TOXIC, TOXIC!!!!!

Also what do you really expect out of the MM.  It assigns random people to each team.  Sometimes it is going to give one team a few better players other times its not.  Also I bet you don't complain at all when you have a winning streak because that is ok right, as long as you are winning but hell no, if you have a losing streak, the MM is ^#*@& Broken right?  Seriously do you expect the MM to be able to calculate literally a million different variables to predict each persons skills in what ship they decide to play that match, then perform miracle math to match everyone perfectly by skill?  They aren't using a supercomputer you know and I don't think any of them are mathematicians on the level of Einstein.   Also what does WR even mean?  A player can have an amazing WR because he normal only plays BBs but hey, he is playing a Premium Tier 8 CV for the very first time in the match your in and is completely clueless what to do, so clueless that he is useless in your match.  What does that do to your win rate prediction?

Also have you ever considered how boring a perfectly balanced MM would be.  I mean do you like to get Krakens?  I do.  Do you know what it takes to get a Kraken?  Lots of people playing on the other team that are less skilled than you.  Seriously, your good matches often as not are because the other team got unlucky and got worse players than yours that time around.  Your NEVER going to stand out on a team of equals because quite simply your all equal.  But I guess you would rather never have a great match again than tolerate anything "unfair", to use your words, going on.  

Seriously, stop already.  Just play the game and have fun.  Accept that sometimes your going to win and win and win and others your going to lose and lose and lose, streaks happen. I understand it is frustrating but lets face facts, we meaning me too, rare focus on the good when things are going well.  I, myself, simply accept that I just won 6 matches in a row like that is how it is supposed to happen but when I lose 3 in a row, I am frustrated...I get it.  But blaming a MM that just randomly assigns people to teams and getting all hot and bothered about it, isn't constructive, especially when I can guarantee you that you wouldn't want to a perfectly balanced MM because it would lead to never having an outstanding match. 

 

 

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You do know that MM only looks at the ship they are playing so maybe a Potato in that ship but are purple over all in the game. 

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It's the same topic.. posted over and over again. They never learn.

 

Just leave the game if you're too frustrated with teams, dear lord there are a million other things to get frustrated at.

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55 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

Stop looking at MMM. I have had two games in the last week where statements in chat coupled with what I observed in game led me to believe that what some of our players saw in MMM led them to play timidly even with a 2:1 ship advantage on that part of the map. 

I have had games where the other team was a prohibitive favorite (football analogy: Clemson vs Furman) and we waxed their azz. 

MMM can be a self fulfilling prophecy of a loss. 

AMEN!  :cap_horn:

23 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

For the love of god don't bring that crap here.  Seriously, uninstall the win rate prediction mod immediately because it is so damn toxic it is not even funny.   The reason you lose when people are using those mods is that time with the lower win rate automatically assumes they are going to lose and don't even try to win.  Then they come on the forums to complain about the MM being bad when it is just their attitude about the chances of winning the match that is bad. 

Seriously, anything between plus or minus 5-10% of a 50% win rate is within margin of error and could realistically go either way unless you give the hell up before even starting the game because you believe your going to lose.  TOXIC, TOXIC, TOXIC!!!!!

Seriously, stop already.  Just play the game and have fun.

AMEN again! :cap_horn:

Why do players insist on ruining their enjoyment of the game by putting so much weight in what MMM tells them?  JUST PLAY THE DAMNED GAME!  A match making monitor program does nothing but put false pretenses in your head.  You can lose ANY game.  You can win ANY game.  Don't let that MMM crap dictate your mindset, whether you mean for it to or not.

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1 hour ago, amoncz said:

just played in team of AVG WR around 48% against team with AVG WR above 55%. How is this balanced game? I'm asking again. Why we have to play like this? When you will finally fix this and make both teams even in skill? This is actually violations of some agreement i would say against everyone who pays you guys. We pay you money but you are not able to provide fair game for us. I don't want to face division of 3 superunicums with bellow average team. I'm just a average players as well. Why you can't fix it and make this game fair for everyone?

Just stop spending money. If enough people do that, maybe they will wake up and realize they could make even more money if they provided an enjoyable gaming experience for everyone. 

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36 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

For the love of god don't bring that crap here.  Seriously, uninstall the win rate prediction mod immediately because it is so damn toxic it is not even funny.   The reason you lose when people are using those mods is that time with the lower win rate automatically assumes they are going to lose and don't even try to win.  Then they come on the forums to complain about the MM being bad when it is just their attitude about the chances of winning the match that is bad. 

Seriously, anything between plus or minus 5-10% of a 50% win rate is within margin of error and could realistically go either way unless you give the hell up before even starting the game because you believe your going to lose.  TOXIC, TOXIC, TOXIC!!!!!

Once again, you are way off the mark.
The matchmaking is not 'bad'. The matchmaking is 'rigged'.
If it was simply bad, then approximately half the time I would be on favored side,
but the reality is that it is only 10% of the time.
Over 30,000 battles for me.
Over 50,000 battles for my buddy.
Millions of battles from former WoT players.
All say the same thing.

Don't worry about me. I have several methods of dealing with rigged games.
I also play SBMM games. The difference is blatantly obvious.

But I feel an obligation to respond to Fake News when I see it.
There's an old saying that goes..
If you have to lie about it, you shouldn't be doing it.

So before you start posting your tired photos of tin foil hats, give me a reasonable answer to this question..
If the game isn't rigged, then why does Wargaming go to such great lengths to hide it?

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

OK, you have collected one datum -- now collect 99 more and test for a significant difference of average win percentage between the teams. Make sure to throw out any matches in which there are players who have hidden their stats. Keep the other variables constant by using the same same ship and playing the same game type for each battle.

You know it happens more than that. There have been several posts on this topic, some with a lot of data to back it. True point is WG will never fix it, so it is what it is. I still play this game, probably living out the sunk cost fallacy, but I never recommend it to anyone anymore. It is just not that good of a game anymore.

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2 hours ago, amoncz said:

but that's not fun. When you get run over in 8 minutes because your team have weak players. I have nothing against them. Not everyone can be good or great. But make it fair. Ths is just ridiculous and is going on for years.

It is fair or as fair as it can be. MM monitor should be banned from the game.

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9 minutes ago, ruggus99 said:

I never recommend it to anyone anymore.

How would you describe this game to a friend?
Well, you're playing battleships.
But the battleships tend to vanish right before your very eyes. Usually just as you aim at them.
And, it's World War 2 battleships, but if you don't have a laser lock on the target, your shells
won't land anywhere near where you aim them.
Then, if you're lucky enough to get laser lock on a battleship before it vanishes,
what happens when your shells hit the target is governed by magic.

Does that sound like an appealing game?

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44 minutes ago, z9_ said:

If the game isn't rigged, then why does Wargaming go to such great lengths to hide it?

???????:Smile_unsure:

Many stat guys have used math to come to the same conclusion... The game is not rigged... Math and numbers are not hidden, its out there for anyone to use freely.

I am very confused as to why you would use the above statement... The math, dont suggest anything near what you're insinuating.

Many of the math guys (me included), have pointed out the theory, laws and effects, for  WOWS.  This thread is a perfect example.

Easy read, but the terms are not easy to follow (fair warning to those not use to advance math terms).

To say WG is hiding something... I disagree, I just dont see it in the math or numbers provided. (if you have something to prove us otherwise, do share).

Edited by Navalpride33

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43 minutes ago, z9_ said:

Once again, you are way off the mark.
The matchmaking is not 'bad'. The matchmaking is 'rigged'.
If it was simply bad, then approximately half the time I would be on favored side,
but the reality is that it is only 10% of the time.
Over 30,000 battles for me.
Over 50,000 battles for my buddy.
Millions of battles from former WoT players.
All say the same thing.

Don't worry about me. I have several methods of dealing with rigged games.
I also play SBMM games. The difference is blatantly obvious.

But I feel an obligation to respond to Fake News when I see it.
There's an old saying that goes..
If you have to lie about it, you shouldn't be doing it.

So before you start posting your tired photos of tin foil hats, give me a reasonable answer to this question..
If the game isn't rigged, then why does Wargaming go to such great lengths to hide it?

tenor.gif.c269c0fe5431f8c0c1cf5575d757e6ec.gifdownload.jpg.a40ffff49b5ae164f037d60ee6e44681.jpg

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Amoncz,

I happen enjoy collecting and analyzing data.  So maybe I can offer my 2 cents about this topic.  I cannot guarantee what I’m stating is 100% true, but I believe it is worth putting it out there.  

I have played over 4,000+ games.  I haven’t obtained MatchMaker Monitor until early this year.  So I only have information on 1,310 games. 

The following screenshot includes the following information.  I pull this information directly from WoWs Monitor itself:

1st number – Friendly’s average XP

2nd number – Enemy’s average XP

3rd number – Average of Friendly & Enemy XP

 

4th number – Friendly’s average SHIP WR

5th number – Enemy’s average SHIP WR

6th number – Average of Friendly & Enemy SHIP WR

 

7th number – Friendly’s ACCOUNT average SHIP WR

8th number – Enemy’s ACCOUNT average SHIP WR

9th number – Average ACCOUNT of Friendly & Enemy SHIP WR

 

The data convinced me that over time, MM seems to average out "the good" and "the bad" teams one may face.  The reason I’m using MMM now is because it can tell me which player to watch out for in battle.  It also can tell me if there is a potential stump coming in the upcoming battle.  One of the best players in WoWs had said that "the sooner one knows a game is a lost the better"… so in certain games, I’ll be more aware of the general (win/loss) situation of the game than others. 

Lastly, if your 45% team is facing a 55% team, it can be an excellent chance for one to practice/learn to carry the team to victory… or farm as high of damage as one can 😊 .  Anyways, this is my 2 cents about this matter.  It just doesn’t bother me any more if I see 45% team vs. 55%.  It just a matter of how well you do in each battle.  Some games are just not winnable. 

MMM.PNG

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1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

???????:Smile_unsure:

Many stat guys have used math to come to the same conclusion... The game is not rigged... Math and numbers are not hidden, its out there for anyone to use freely.

I am very confused as to why you would use the above statement... The math, dont suggest anything near what you're insinuating.

 

I know a group of software developers and engineers, all with Masters Degrees or PHDs who disagree with you. 

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Just now, STINKWEED_ said:

I know a group of software developers and engineers, all with Masters Degrees or PHDs who disagree with you. 

Good send them in with their work on WOWS.. I know me and the other math guys would love to look over their work... Along with conclusion and with tools used to reach it..

It would be fun... Let us know when you'll have that available please...

TY

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