Is this the state randoms are actually in?

[kgh52]

I thought I'd give randoms another try last night. I ran 2 and that was all I could take.

This is a subjective opinion. Feel free to disagree but try to be civil.

There have been recent post claiming randoms are like a chess match where strategy is used. My experience was more on the lines of kid's game of hide & seek.

 The only difference was you need to dodge long range torpedoes too.

Hiding behind an island & popping out to shoot or launch torpedoes is not what I call strategy nor is it entertaining.

 

[_BlackHawk4_]

There's been a lot of blow outs lately.  DD's yoloing and getting shot up within 4 minutes is really driving me nuts. DD players have got to understand that if you get killed, your team mates behind lose your spotting and the enemy capital ships can push in without fear of your torpedoes. Merely staying alive will cause a Battleship to pause for the risk of running into a torpedo wall. Please DD's stop throwing away your ships so fast.

[Slimeball91]

There is plenty of strategy in PvP.  You're a co-op player that hasn't figured out how to play it yet, that's all.

[eviltane]

 

Randoms is what you make of it.   There is tons of strategy in Randoms and when you have played it a lot you can tell exactly who knows what is happening by the time the match is half way done.

 

As far as the complaint about is too much hiding?  Then why don't you learn how to use open water boats. Right now Grozovoi with AFT,  BFT and no stealth  is super effective mid range ( 12 - 14.6 km)  pressure machine,  There is hardly a cruiser that  can hit you. Yesterday in ranked I was gunning down Petros at 13km and winning repeatedly.   Also ships like Hindenburg do great at exploiting others hiding behind rocks , you can farm Russian cruisers with it all day long.  They don't have the AP pen to hurt an angled Hindenburg that is actively dodging and they don't have the HE to keep up with the damage numbers

 

The real trick behind randoms is to effectively trade up in HP . IF you are doing more damage to the enemy then he is doing to you on a percentage basis you are off to the right start. 

The biggest problem randoms face is low skill players throwing away their ships in mad rushes and pushes that do not need to happen.  There is no reason to push into an enemy  that has superior numbers or even equal numbers when you already poses the cap.  Is an equal enemy force running in panic?  Don't push into the fighting retreat and get fire farmed. Instead bias towards the middle both keeping up fire on the fleeing enemies and helping out at mid often long range AP can land on the enemy all the way on the other side of the map at that point. 

Another huge problem is people being super afraid of the enemy and abandoning their flanks. I can somewhat understand the rushing potato scenario above. But there is never ever a good excuse for 2 BBs and a cruiser to straight up sail through spawn to the other side of the map just because the enemy has a DD on your flank or because the other side of a map has rocks you want to hide behind.  The worst part is that lemming trains always happen to the wrong side of the map.  They like to go to the side that has more islands , not realizing even for a moment  that groups of islands are slow and dangerous to push through.  The only time lemmings have a good chance of working is when it pushes through Open water where you can push fast .  

Let me be absolutely clear  THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO GO TO ANOTHER FLANK AT THE BEGINNIG.  .   Even if you are in a stupid WOOSTER on the 1 single map with a wide open flank, abandoning your side is an absolutely  terrible idea.  The only ships who get to pick and choose and who need to make a good choice are those spawning in the middle.  The only exception which I will grant is if you are already a unicum with super awesome stats that knows there is a guaranteed better way and you are in a div with another unicum that will cover your flank. 

 

Here is a solution for those that want to abandon their caps.  Push up half to 3/4 of the way you normal would on an attack  turn around  and get into a kiting position so that any enemy that pushes to exploit your weak flank has to enduring punishing damage levels.  

 

AM I perfect ? HELL NO.  My own current biggest problem in randoms right now is 2 fold: 

1. Avoiding being riff raff myself on the first match of the day, too often in recent times I get myself killed early in the first match of the day.

2. Once I get the first match out of the way:  Finding enough opportunities early  to make a change on my flank,  before too many ships on my flank suicide.  Example:  getting that first kill in before the players on my flank have the opportunity to kill themselves.  

[Akeno017]

39 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

I ran 2 and that was all I could take.

I'd personally argue that over 100 or 200 battles would still not be sufficient for the various kinds of experience randoms give.

Low sample size won't help here.

[Rustyhole]

36 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

There is plenty of strategy in PvP.  You're a co-op player that hasn't figured out how to play it yet, that's all.

'nother coop pleb here, PvP is easy.  Bots are much scarier than humans.

[handybilly]

It is and has always been a mixed bag. Sometimes you get some great team mates that both help you and sometimes carry you. And sometimes you just get a bunch of fair to below average players and you all go down in a hurry. They are called randoms for a reason. 

[Rocketpacman]

The average player in Randoms has absolutely no idea what he is doing and doesn't much care. That being said just because the average player doesn't know what's happening doesn't mean there isn't plenty going on that a more skilled player can have a major impact on. There's a reason over thousands of battles some players have a 60% solo win rate and some players have a 45% solo win rate and it isn't getting lucky or unlucky with their teammates. 

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

I just played Conqueror in a Random game that we dragged out and won on points by our BBs survivng a rain of torpedoes long enough to get to endgame and wear down the Reds by cap control. We had one DD left at the end who earned his keep just by surviving long enough to allow us to snipe the Red cruisers. Long-range sniping in a BB is not my favorite gameplay style, which is why I tend to stay in Co-op much more than I used to. I play in Randoms only if there is a mission requirement related to something I want in the game.

[Soshi_Sone]

I'm fully engaged in Randoms every night.

It's very important to understand that the ship one is playing plus the MM and the map, and the intial deployments and intial moves has a very strong impact on how one plays the match.  There is TREMENDOUS variety here. 

Those who play ONE way and one way only are often frustrated.  Players can't play a style and force the match to fit it.  You gotta fit your style to the match.

Sometimes, depending on your ship, the map, the deployments...sometimes...hiding behind a rock and spamming is what you gotta do.

Sometimes...staying mid to long in your BB...is the way you gotta play.

Sometimes...you push like the devil and overrun the reds...the way you gotta play.

Sometimes, you push and then kite.

I could go on and on and on.  

As an example, as many know, I've been playing California a lot lately.  She is a mid to long range shooter.  That's her niche.  So look for those spots.  But if the match says push...I push.  As push as push can at 20knots.  I've also been known to kite in her.  Can't win the kite race, but often don't need to outpace them if I turn early enough.  Not to mention she has that 31mm top armor over the mid third of backside (one of the best kept secrets).

I also play Bismarck...and oh my...I'm cruisin for a brawl.  But even then, I can't just make it happen.  I maneuver early to look for it...and if the opportunity presents...BAM!  If not, then work the mid game.  I can't play this way in California.

Lastly, I will say that it's very important to take in the entire strategic situation.  Not just the tactical side on one's front.  All those red island huggers on the other flank facing a weak green force...that means you have the weight on your front....crush the reds on your flank...and flank those huggers.       

[kgh52]

1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

There is plenty of strategy in PvP.  You're a co-op player that hasn't figured out how to play it yet, that's all.

I expected this "you don't know" type of rebuttals.

While I do not question there is opportunity for strategy, in game very little strategy is evident. Sure some players division up and use voice communications to plan & execute but this is very limited.

[kgh52]

55 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

I just played Conqueror in a Random game that we dragged out and won on points by our BBs survivng a rain of torpedoes long enough to get to endgame and wear down the Reds by cap control. We had one DD left at the end who earned his keep just by surviving long enough to allow us to snipe the Red cruisers. Long-range sniping in a BB is not my favorite gameplay style, which is why I tend to stay in Co-op much more than I used to. I play in Randoms only if there is a mission requirement related to something I want in the game.

I know I have more than once in my limited random play so I'm sure others have also managed to mitigate damage while occupying the attention of several red team ships long enough for the rest of the team to sink the other red ships then overpower the 3 or 4 ships chasing you for what they hoped would be a quick kill.

[kgh52]

1 hour ago, Rustyhole said:

'nother coop pleb here, PvP is easy.  Bots are much scarier than humans.

From what I see in chat, many do not understand the challenge of coops.

[Princess_Daystar]

I probably wont be setting foot in PVP again due to the island camping, its boring AF and super common from what ive seen, not my thing at all.

[MajorEnglush]

4 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

From what I see in chat, many do not understand the challenge of coops.

Lol wut?

The only challenge in PvE is farming as much damage as you can to maximize XP. That's literally the hardest thing. 

From a view of your stats, it seems you might have issues with how to survive long enough to impact the game. Your damage numbers are just really low across the board, which indicates someone getting smashed too early.

Don't try to get so much early damage -- position smart so you can last and deal damage throughout the match, and be smart about when and where to tank damage. As a BB main, your guns are critical late game to finish off low-health targets, so focus on that maybe. 

Just my two cents -- keep the change. 

[Rocketpacman]

16 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

I expected this "you don't know" type of rebuttals.

While I do not question there is opportunity for strategy, in game very little strategy is evident. Sure some players division up and use voice communications to plan & execute but this is very limited.

You're confusing strategy and active efforts at teamwork. I don't think anyone believes that Randoms is full of players trying to work together. Players trying to work together is very rare and isn't even usually that productive when it does happen (again most players don't know what they're doing which means attempting to team up and work with other players who also don't know what they're doing is often a bad idea). 

9 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

From what I see in chat, many do not understand the challenge of coops.

Such as? 

[Slimeball91]

Just now, kgh52 said:

I expected this "you don't know" type of rebuttals.

While I do not question there is opportunity for strategy, in game very little strategy is evident. Sure some players division up and use voice communications to plan & execute but this is very limited.

My reply was directed at the "no strategy" in randoms part of your post.  I find that comment laughably off the mark.  I think its reasonable if you say you don't like the game play in randoms.

I was always a PvP player until recently when I switched to mostly co-op.  I've only ever been an average player.  I figured out the optimal strategy for the ships I was playing in a day playing co-op.  That's how shallow the strategy is there.  That's not a knock on co-op, or the players, after all, I am one of you too.  

 

[SkaerKrow]

Yes, the current meta involves a lot of cover for cruisers and some thinly armored battleships. It’s less than ideal if you’re hoping for something that more closely resembles actual naval warfare, but it’s still tolerable imo. 

[USMC2145]

Randoms are a mess. They are full of players who have rushed to the higher tiers and have no clue or are just players who do not care to even learn how to play or win. They do not care about stats, wins, dying sailing broadside....the list goes on and on. At one time it was what team has the better players now it is what team has the worst players that will start the downfall of their team first. 

[kgh52]

2 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

My reply was directed at the "no strategy" in randoms part of your post.  I find that comment laughably off the mark.  I think its reasonable if you say you don't like the game play in randoms.

I was always a PvP player until recently when I switched to mostly co-op.  I've only ever been an average player.  I figured out the optimal strategy for the ships I was playing in a day playing co-op.  That's how shallow the strategy is there.  That's not a knock on co-op, or the players, after all, I am one of you too.  

 

My comment was " Hiding behind an island & popping out to shoot or launch torpedoes is not what I call strategy ". I did not say there was no strategy.

 

[Pugilistic]

1 hour ago, eviltane said:

 

[excerpted]

Let me be absolutely clear  THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO GO TO ANOTHER FLANK AT THE BEGINNIG.  .   Even if you are in a stupid WOOSTER on the 1 single map with a wide open flank, abandoning your side is an absolutely  terrible idea.  The only ships who get to pick and choose and who need to make a good choice are those spawning in the middle.  The only exception which I will grant is if you are already a unicum with super awesome stats that knows there is a guaranteed better way and you are in a div with another unicum that will cover your flank. 

 

There are folks who would change sides of the map if they spawned in an Arms Race point that dispenses gold coins and sexual favors.  

I have seen the other half of my team change sides of the map on Strait when they were on the home cap side. That went poorly. 

[iDuckman]

2 hours ago, eviltane said:

There is tons of strategy in Randoms

Sure is.  Twelve players, twelve different strategies.

 

[vak_]

3 hours ago, kgh52 said:

There have been recent post claiming randoms are like a chess match where strategy is used.

Play CW or KOTS if you want strategy. In randoms, just assume that most of your teammates don't know what they're doing and don't care to learn, and carry as hard as you can individually.

[Midnitewolf]

If your a Co-op player with little to no experience in Randoms and are having a bad time of it, then it is just that you haven't been able to make the transition to PvP yet.  I honestly don't feel Co-op offer much more than the bare basics of what is required to know how to effectively play randoms.  

On one hand it doesn't take any skill or knowledge to play in randoms, on the other it take a massive amount of skill and knowledge to be skill at playing randoms.   You literally have to know every detail about about ship down the the armor scheme, shell velocity, dispersion patterns, speed, turning circle, etc, etc. to really play at the highest level.  Second you have to be able to read the minimap and understand what it happening.   Third you need massive levels of situational awareness.  Fourth, you need to understand your ship very well, what it is strong at or weak at, what are its characteristics, etc.

I guess my point is, Randoms and strategy as what you make of it.  You can be clueless and play randoms, no problems or you can learn as much as you can and get good at playing randoms.  This involves a lot of personal strategy.  You will notice I said, "Personal" that is because as far as team strategies go, there isn't much.  Everyone has their own way of playing and their own objectives when they enter a match. Some want to win, some just want to knock out the directive they are currently working on and winning doesn't matter.  The strategy part is learning how to read what is going on with your team and the enemy and using that knowledge to build a persona strategy that allows you to accomplish your goals in the most beneficial way possible. 

 

 

[xHeavy]

Hide and seek.

Shoot BB's behind islands. The torps will sink same by the time their horsies get moving.

 

Its impressive that 50 years of evolving gaming technology has failed to get beyond a childs game of hide and seek.