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Midnitewolf

Which Coal ship to buy and Why?

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I finally have enough coal to go for one of the good ships.  I have slightly narrowed down my choices to 4 different ships.  Let me know what you think.

Tier 10 - Thunderer  - Ok I got to admit I am leaning toward this ship.  There are a several reasons.  one, I love my Republique and for all intents and purposes this ship seems very much like a Republique and some of the CC's have even compared her to the Republique.  Two, she seems a bit more versatile than my Republique in that she has both great AP and great HE.  I also love accurate BBs and tend to prefer a mid-long range playstyle with my BBs.  Third, I don't have many Tier 10s available to me, just the Republique and the Halland and will have the Grozovoi soon.  Also it looks like ship to run when I want to play Tier 10 but still want to make a decent amount of credits.  Honestly I can't find much of a downside, especially since I love the Republique so even semi-squishy armor probably won't bother me.  My only concern is the fact that the gun velocity is so much lower than the Republique's.

Tier 10 - Marceau - I honestly have mixed feelings about this one myself.  I love the open water gunboat nature of this ship and its speed.  Also it has at least decently useful torps, so it ticks off those boxes really well.  The thing I don't like is the floaty shell arcs and while I can do OK with them in the likes of my Lightning and Cossack which seem to have similar arcs, I am a bit afraid they will ruin the fun for me in this ship.  Part of me thinks it is way to risky to waste this amount of coal on a ship, that I might not find fun.  Honestly, it really frustrates me that WG doesn't let us test out these ships on the PTS but I am stuck without knowing.  For me this could either be the most fun ship I have ever played or a huge dud with little in between and I won't be able to determine that until I play the ship.  

Tier 9 - Pommern - This ship seems to come highly recommended and everyone seems to think it is a very fun ship.  Overall it would tick off most of the fun boxes for me as well being tanky, having 12 guns and those secondaries are always fun.  However, my big concern is the the 1.5 sigma in this ship because I have to be honest and say, I tend to get frustrated when my Bismarks shells can't even hit the broadside of a Fiji at 10 km and I have had that happen way to often for it called a rare occurrence.  I think the combination of German dispersion and a 1.5 sigma might sour me on this ship.  On the other hand, she does have 12 barrels so there is less of a chance of a clean whiff when firing its guns so it might be a worry that doesn't materialize.

Tier 9 - Georgia - OK to be honest, this ship wouldn't even be on my Radar except for all the people that can't stop raving about how good and fun she is.  I mean when you start doing any research on what coal ship to buy, this one seems to get recommended the most.   To be blunt, I tend to struggle in USN BBs for some reason.  I have the Missouri and honestly would give her back if I could get my 1 million FXP back.  It is not that she is bad or anything, it is just that I can make more credits in my Musashi because I just sink better in that ship and will always go to my Musashi first when I am looking to grind credits despite Missouri's well known printing press. I also have Alabama and honestly struggle with that a bit as well though it being a more maneuverable ship than the Missouri, I tend to enjoy it more.   I think part of the problem is that most of the ship I tend to play most often, tend to have higher velocity guns and I struggle to hit anything with USN guns but honestly I don't think that is why I don't mesh well with USN BBs.   Anyway, back to Georgia.   On one hand she is a USN BB with even slower shell velocities than normal, also she only has 6 guns which concerns me since I HATED the Gneisenau. On the other, she seems to have a lot making up for it.   Many say her maneuverability is more like a Cruiser than a BB especially with the speed boost, her guns are supposed to be deadly accurate unlike the Gneisenau which is always a plus for me since I hate being robbed by wonky dispersion, she has amazing secondaries that are, as I mentioned earlier, always very fun and that fast reload heal.  I guess it is almost safe to say she plays nothing like a traditional USN BB so I might not find myself having as many issues with her as I do with the other USN BBs. 

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

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Well, I can only comment about the Georgia, since I recently bought it, even with only a 7 point commander, she is a ball to play, 40 knts is just stupid fun and she's pretty agile too. The guns have solid dispersion and what's not to like about 457's?

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First and foremost, if you want the most powerful coal ship, its the Salem.

Thunderer is probably the best Battleship right now at T10, because its hardly a Battleship. The ship is excellent in ranked because it deals consistent damage and is very easy to save a star with. If you dont lose stars, you will advance and rank out. The reason why its so strong is because it is an HE spammer, and have the advantages of cruiser like accuracy and excellent reload for a Battleship. Yet at the same time, because it have a 32mm externals it does not have to worry about taking massive hits unlike HE spamming cruisers. 

Marceau is a very powerful French DD, one that isnt just straight up inferior to Russian destroyers. However, because it have no smoke, it is very feast or famine. The ship is super powerful in a game without carriers but all it takes is a single carrier to completly ruin your game. The ship is not consistent enough and is too dependent on matchmaking, thus most good players prefer more consistent options such as Grozovoi and Daring as gun boats.

Pommern is a terrible ship, its a really bad FDG as it does not OM 27, this means a whole bunch a hard counters, even lower tiered ships like PE and Balti are counters, says nothing less of T9s and T10 30mm cruisers. You only get this ship if you like to meme with its secondaries, that is, if you can endure being HE spammed to death every game by doing so.

Georgia is very strong and is on the level of Musashi when it comes to T9 BB level. Having OM 30 means no cruiser is safe from you even at T10 and have excellent accuracy is the best thing for a Battleship to have. Its nothing like the Missouri as it OM 30 while Missouri OM 27, and its nothing like Gnei because it is accurate. The number one advice about the ship is to press P and turn off secondaries, its not only useless but baits the player into a horrible playstyle that Georgia is not fit to doing. It is an excellent long range sniper due to penetration, accuracy, stealth, and speed.

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22 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

First and foremost, if you want the most powerful coal ship, its the Salem.

Thunderer is probably the best Battleship right now at T10, because its hardly a Battleship. The ship is excellent in ranked because it deals consistent damage and is very easy to save a star with. If you dont lose stars, you will advance and rank out. The reason why its so strong is because it is an HE spammer, and have the advantages of cruiser like accuracy and excellent reload for a Battleship. Yet at the same time, because it have a 32mm externals it does not have to worry about taking massive hits unlike HE spamming cruisers. 

Marceau is a very powerful French DD, one that isnt just straight up inferior to Russian destroyers. However, because it have no smoke, it is very feast or famine. The ship is super powerful in a game without carriers but all it takes is a single carrier to completly ruin your game. The ship is not consistent enough and is too dependent on matchmaking, thus most good players prefer more consistent options such as Grozovoi and Daring as gun boats.

Pommern is a terrible ship, its a really bad FDG as it does not OM 27, this means a whole bunch a hard counters, even lower tiered ships like PE and Balti are counters, says nothing less of T9s and T10 30mm cruisers. You only get this ship if you like to meme with its secondaries, that is, if you can endure being HE spammed to death every game by doing so.

Georgia is very strong and is on the level of Musashi when it comes to T9 BB level. Having OM 30 means no cruiser is safe from you even at T10 and have excellent accuracy is the best thing for a Battleship to have. Its nothing like the Missouri as it OM 30 while Missouri OM 27, and its nothing like Gnei because it is accurate. The number one advice about the ship is to press P and turn off secondaries, its not only useless but baits the player into a horrible playstyle that Georgia is not fit to doing. It is an excellent long range sniper due to penetration, accuracy, stealth, and speed.

I am curious what you like about the Salem?   From what I have researched she is pretty much just a Des Moines with a better heal.  Now granted the Des Moines is hailed as one of the best Tier 10 CA's but is there enough there to make it worth spending coal on when you can just grind out the Des Moines.  

Also from a credit earning perspective, I am assuming the Tier 9s earn more than the Tier 10s so the Georgia would earn significantly more than the Thunderer.

As for the Marceau and the Pommern, yeah both seem spot on to what I was kind of thinking which is why they were kind of at the bottom of the list.

Again wish WG would just let me test these ships out in about 5 matches each but wish in one hand, sh*t in the other and see what fills up first hehe.  

 

30 minutes ago, metus_regem said:

Well, I can only comment about the Georgia, since I recently bought it, even with only a 7 point commander, she is a ball to play, 40 knts is just stupid fun and she's pretty agile too. The guns have solid dispersion and what's not to like about 457's?

Yeah this is what most people keep saying about the Georgia.  Everyone really likes the Georgia and says she is not only good but also very fun.  That is what makes it very intriguing despite my history with USN BBs not being stellar. 

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Thunderer. it's EZ mode, and it's overly popular and will probably go away soon.

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34 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

Thunderer. it's EZ mode, and it's overly popular and will probably go away soon.

Yeah I noticed it was popular and we all know that WG likes to remove popular ships so you might be on to something.

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If you have a gut feeling about a ship, research it twice as hard and don't pull the trigger until they sell you on it. While Georgia is my favorite co-op BB (speed is king there) Thunderer is my prefered for Random. I never find I enjoy Georgia in random, and it comes down to 6 guns, even with amazing accuracy, are going to only need to miss 6 times to ruin a good shot. Heck, I'd honestly say that I only like Thunderer because HE is a perfectly viable option at times.

1 hour ago, Midnitewolf said:

I am curious what you like about the Salem?   From what I have researched she is pretty much just a Des Moines with a better heal.  Now granted the Des Moines is hailed as one of the best Tier 10 CA's but is there enough there to make it worth spending coal on when you can just grind out the Des Moines

She has a 40 sec dam con reload, a super heal akin to the RN cruisers, a dedicated def AA slot, and a crappy radar in the same slot as a hydro.

If you're like me, and don't enjoy having radar due to it only ever tempting you to commit suicide due to an overprotective nature, she's honestly amazing. If I enjoyed cruisers in random, I'd use her more, but she does a very good job it co-op. Easily one of the hardest cruisers to put down due to her 27mm plating on top of all that.

 

Marceau is a ship I, myself, have been considering. Does good AA on a DD excite you? Then she's a good ship. Does it not? Then she's a worse Klebert in many ways, despite almost being a klebert with reload booster always on, just with floaty shells, worse but longer range torps, being stealthier, and probably other things to boot.

 

Pommern is a ship I want, but am in no hurry to grab just yet. I'm sitting on my coal, and likely will till december due to WG's bad habit of not announcing what ships will be sold for. Being the only T9 BB with torps is reason enough for me to want her. 12 guns and good secondaries are just icing on the cake, really.

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3 hours ago, Midnitewolf said:

Tier 9 - Georgia

I got the Georgia, thinking it would be an upgraded Massachusetts, but it's a different type of ship. The Georgia is more of a fast flanker, rather than a medium-range brawler. The Georgia is fast -- faster than some DDs. With a full secondary build it can hunt down and sink DDs more easily than many a cruiser can so woe to the DD that thinks it's going to take out a nice juicy battleship that it finds on the flank of battle and forgets that it is dealing with a Georgia.

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2 hours ago, Midnitewolf said:

Also from a credit earning perspective, I am assuming the Tier 9s earn more than the Tier 10s so the Georgia would earn significantly more than the Thunderer.

 

Correct...T9 premiums earn more because they are true premiums, where the T10 ships are "special reward ships" as they were never sold directly for money and don't have the baked in credit multiplier like true premiums, a factor that is separate from the credit multiplier for the camo provided.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

I got the Georgia, thinking it would be an upgraded Massachusetts, but it's a different type of ship. The Georgia is more of a fast flanker, rather than a medium-range brawler. The Georgia is fast -- faster than some DDs. With a full secondary build it can hunt down and sink DDs more easily than many a cruiser can so woe to the DD that thinks it's going to take out a nice juicy battleship that it finds on the flank of battle and forgets that it is dealing with a Georgia.

Is that why I keep seeing Georgias over extending and getting themselves caught out? 

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I got Georgia and it is a fun ship. But the more I played her the more I think a pure secondary build, while a meme, is kind of a waste. She is not as tanky as Massachusetts, her guns turn slower and her main battery DPM is rather low. So in situations where Massa as top tier would just lock down a push Georgia barely works (at least for me). I think going with a hybrid survival/secondary build focusing on her strengths (speed and 457mm guns) gets you much further. However, take all of that with a grain of salt as I am by all means only a totally average BB player.

Regarding the original question I face a similar conundrum having enough coal and steel to get any coal ship soon (I don't play clan battles and non of the steel ships really interest me so I treat steel as coal, personally). I am torn between Pommern and Thunderer, since Marceau seems like a niche DD with a high skill ceiling which I don't see myself mastering, yet. Salem seems just like a slightly different Des Moines (which I really enjoy) and while desirable is further down on the priority list as DM is readily available.

My hesitation arises more from the uncertainty whether some ships are going to be added or removed soon as it takes some time to acquire the amount of resources required, and I already missed out on Smolensk and Jean Bart (not sure if I hope for the former to come back).

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If you find it hard to land slow shells, Georgia is going to be frustrating. 

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You need to ask yourself the right questions.

 

1) How does it fit with the rest of your fleet and your playstyle? What does it do that something else in your fleet can't?

2) Which captain(s) are you going to put in it?

3) Most importantly, what do you want it for? The ships I would take to co-op are not necessarily my first pick for Randoms and vice versa, while the T10 ships over the T9s are your ticket to most seasons of Ranked and Clan Battles. If you're cash-strapped and can't afford premium time or permacamos, they are your pathway to affordable top-tier play; you can spam the T10 coal ships over and over again and almost never have to worry about credits. That's important for some people.

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8 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

First and foremost, if you want the most powerful coal ship, its the Salem.

Pommern is a terrible ship, its a really bad FDG as it does not OM 27, this means a whole bunch a hard counters, even lower tiered ships like PE and Balti are counters, says nothing less of T9s and T10 30mm cruisers. You only get this ship if you like to meme with its secondaries, that is, if you can endure being HE spammed to death every game by doing so.

 

Pommern is the BEST brawling BB in the game at this moment!! But you have to like brawling. Don't make yourself an easy target at the start of the match or what DP says is true. Pick your shots early and find a good position, then push. DDs just melt under a full secondary build. Main guns on one target secondary's on another. Torp anything that gets close.

If you try to play it at range, then your gonna have a bad day. 

If I could only have 1 BB to play it would be Thunderer, if I get a 2nd it's Pommern

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8 hours ago, Midnitewolf said:

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

I have all four ships and the Thunderer is the ship I play the most. It's definitely a solid ship and you will not be disappointed if you choose it. 

I do play the Marceau quite a bit in co-op to complete missions and so on. It's quite fun and can be beastly, very easy to rack up over 100k damage with it in co-op..

Really haven't played the Georgia or Pommern enough to give you a solid opinion on them, although the Georgia usually does well when I do play it.

Anyway, I think your best bet is to choose the Thunderer out of the four listed.

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1 hour ago, Cit_the_bed said:

If you find it hard to land slow shells, Georgia is going to be frustrating. 

Georgia is VERY accurate.

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Georgia or Thunderer they are both strong and consistent with great guns. If you do not have enough captain XP to immediately get a 19 pointer on Georgia then go with thunderer. No DD is worth any of the special resources in my opinion. And the Pommern guns can be too frustrating with how low there sigma is. 

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35 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Georgia is VERY accurate.

The accuracy is not at issue here; the problem is getting used to the lead required. Otherwise you're just producing tight groups in the ocean.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The accuracy is not at issue here; the problem is getting used to the lead required. Otherwise you're just producing tight groups in the ocean.

Getting "used" to the lead takes no more than a few salvos. 

 

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Anyway, what are your thoughts?

I have the Georgia, Salem & the  Pommern. I like both BB's. For me the Salem is rather "meh". But that is my opinion, only one of many.

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4 hours ago, Yoshiblue said:

Is that why I keep seeing Georgias over extending and getting themselves caught out? 

Probably. I love having the secondaries on Georgia. I didn't totally spec for them, (no AFT or BFT) but they still work well.

IMO, Georgia requires discipline. Using your speed to chase down ships to bombard them with secondaries is something you don't want to do unless you know what you're getting into.

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The accuracy is not at issue here; the problem is getting used to the lead required. Otherwise you're just producing tight groups in the ocean.

The Georgia is much like every US ship, you lead just a bit more. Its not that hard to learn.

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I'm a cruiser guy so I went with the Salem. At the time when I asked for advice before the transaction I was told heavily to go with the Georgia.

I originally wanted the Jean Bart for my first coal purchase but it was removed as an option before I had enough coal.

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