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CaptainZade_NA

Are French BBs Still Good?

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     I'm thinking of grinding another BB line when I'm finished with Iowa and I liked the look of the French BBs so I asked my friends about them, they said it's not really worth it because they're "susceptible to HE spam" and the accuracy is bad but I don't know I kinda want to try them first before deciding if they're worth grinding. I've seen people do well in French battleships before so maybe I can do well too?

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I mainly play Co-op and Scenarios. Lyon is amazing. 

Outside of PVE, I think it is worthwhile to prioritize Fire Prevention as the first 4-point skill.

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Tier 3-5: demoralizing pieces of crap to play.

Tier 6-7: average to decent.(i hear the t6 one is really good in ops through)

Tier 8-9: faster and far more comfortable to play.

Tier 10:  guns very close to op here, shell performance is between Yammy's and Kremlin's they just reload faster very deadly combination.

Tier 10 with UU: you match large/battle cruisers in gun reload time with you 430mm guns!!

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Love the FR BBs. I am regrinding the line for the 5th time.

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pretty good line,Jean bart remains the jewel of the crown of french bbs,fast and accurate guns,good HE,fast,good AA,secondaries at acceptable range,main gun reload booster so you can demolish broadside bbs or smash that DD that keep shooting at you.

her main advantage over georgia is the number of guns that you can present,georgia can only fire 4 guns in front of her,JB can fire all 8.dont underestimate accurate 380mm guns

Edited by Cruxdei
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16 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

pretty good line,Jean bart remains the jewel of the crown of french bbs,fast and accurate guns,good HE,fast,good AA,secondaries at acceptable range,main gun reload booster so you can demolish broadside bbs or smash that DD that keep shooting at you.

her main advantage over georgia is the number of guns that you can present,georgia can only fire 4 guns in front of her,JB can fire all 8.dont underestimate accurate 380mm guns

I have seen Jean Barts in-game before but I don't see it anywhere in port, in the tech tree, in the armory, and not in the premium shop either, is it still for sale? It also seems to be a Richelieu but in T9 so is it better than the T8 counterpart?

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2 minutes ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

I have seen Jean Barts in-game before but I don't see it anywhere in port, in the tech tree, in the armory, and not in the premium shop either, is it still for sale? It also seems to be a Richelieu but in T9 so is it better than the T8 counterpart?

sadly its not available,just like musashi.

its a much better richelieu.

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The French BBs are excellent from T6 up. The Lyon is amazing, great fire setter, murders cruisers. Richeliu has brutal guns and can spam out secondaries. Alsace is one of the most fun ships in the game. Republic has brilliant guns and is fast with decent armor.

It's really a fun line, dont' even hesitate. I also love their really unique retro look.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

Was there a reason for it?

WG said that they will come back,maybe after georgia and thunderer leaves. they are trying to make a rotation with the coal and steel ships.

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Decent line but it's not as good as it used to be.

 

The bad parts:

- It used to be German & French BBs used the same bad dispersion.  WG improved German BBs to USN / RN BB dispersion, so now the French are stuck as the only BB Line with the worst dispersion pattern in the game.

- One of the things the CV Rework of early 2019 did was affect AA.  Some of these FR BBs used to have great to killer AA.  With the CV Rework, not so much anymore.  In the RTS days, Lyon, Richelieu, Alsace has had good AA.  Republique had great AA.  Premium Jean Bart used to be a Battleship "No Fly Zone."  Not anymore.

- Even when the line was new, it's always had soft exterior armor that is susceptible to HE Penetration by the many spammers out there.  Even in High Tier, they were coated in 32mm armor, which HE Spammers LOVE.  Jean Bart, Republique, Gascogne, Richelieu, Alsace, Bourgogne... They all can be DPM'd to death quite easily compared to German, IJN, even USN Battleships.

- The IFHE / Armor update gutted almost all FR BB Secondary Builds.   Most of the possible long range secondary FR BBs rely on 100mm guns.  By default their HE Pen is only 17mm, which isn't enough to Pen High Tier DD hulls and High Tier BB superstructure that are 19mm.  If you take IFHE you gut your Fire Chances not only for your Secondaries, but for Main Battery also.

 

It's kind of laughable really when you look at FR & German BBs.

1.  WG gave German BBs HE Pen bonus to their secondaries.  Meanwhile the FR 100mm can't even Pen High Tier DD hulls.

2.  WG gave German BBs the USN / RN Dispersion Pattern.

3.  Lots of German BBs still have 50mm deck armor.  Meanwhile FR BBs at best are coated in 32mm armor and get farmed mercilessly by HE Spammers.

 

The last fun part with the 32mm armor?  IJN 460mm+ AP shells Overmatch you.  If Yamato, Musashi, Shikashima land shells on your FR BB, no amount of angling or bow tanking will save you.  Once Overmatch is in effect, there are 0 chances to bounce the AP shell.  I still remember when the FR BB Line came out, divisioning up with a buddy that loved Yamato.  He had a field day Overmatching those FR BBs all day long.  Free Pens.  Nothing has changed with that armor scheme.  FR & RN BBs are the ones like this.

 

Jean Bart and Bourgogne are gimmicked up to be what they are as Premium Ships, and are not representative of the actual BB Line.  The same way Premiums Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio are nothing at all like the USN BB Line.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Out of all the ships in the tech tree line the Lyon and the Alsace are the best IMO. The tier 10 is slower and the different gun configuration doesn’t save it. The tier 8 is lackluster with small guns and low fire rate. The line is still fun though and that’s what counts really. You have to be thoughtful of HE spam which is the weakness most notable. I run medium range manual secondary’s on my high tiers and hybridize into endurance skills. The secondary’s are not so good as to warrant full builds but good enough for point defense dd work which makes them more interesting than other bbs.

Edited by Drifter_X
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10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Decent line but it's not as good as it used to be.

 

The bad parts:

- It used to be German & French BBs used the same bad dispersion.  WG improved German BBs to USN / RN BB dispersion, so now the French are stuck as the only BB Line with the worst dispersion pattern in the game.

- One of the things the CV Rework of early 2019 did was affect AA.  Some of these FR BBs used to have great to killer AA.  With the CV Rework, not so much anymore.  In the RTS days, Lyon, Richelieu, Alsace has had good AA.  Republique had great AA.  Premium Jean Bart used to be a Battleship "No Fly Zone."  Not anymore.

- Even when the line was new, it's always had soft exterior armor that is susceptible to HE Penetration by the many spammers out there.  Even in High Tier, they were coated in 32mm armor, which HE Spammers LOVE.  Jean Bart, Republique, Gascogne, Richelieu, Alsace, Bourgogne... They all can be DPM'd to death quite easily compared to German, IJN, even USN Battleships.

- The IFHE / Armor update gutted almost all FR BB Secondary Builds.   Most of the possible long range secondary FR BBs rely on 100mm guns.  By default their HE Pen is only 17mm, which isn't enough to Pen High Tier DD hulls and High Tier BB superstructure that are 19mm.  If you take IFHE you gut your Fire Chances not only for your Secondaries, but for Main Battery also.

 

It's kind of laughable really when you look at FR & German BBs.

1.  WG gave German BBs HE Pen bonus to their secondaries.  Meanwhile the FR 100mm can't even Pen High Tier DD hulls.

2.  WG gave German BBs the USN / RN Dispersion Pattern.

3.  Lots of German BBs still have 50mm deck armor.  Meanwhile FR BBs at best are coated in 32mm armor and get farmed mercilessly by HE Spammers.

 

The last fun part with the 32mm armor?  IJN 460mm+ AP shells Overmatch you.  If Yamato, Musashi, Shikashima land shells on your FR BB, no amount of angling or bow tanking will save you.

 

Jean Bart and Bourgogne are gimmicked up to be what they are as Premium Ships, and are not representative of the actual BB Line.  The same way Premiums Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio are nothing at all like the USN BB Line.

     So are the premium French BBs always better than the tech tree French battleships?

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1 hour ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

     I'm thinking of grinding another BB line when I'm finished with Iowa and I liked the look of the French BBs so I asked my friends about them, they said it's not really worth it because they're "susceptible to HE spam" and the accuracy is bad but I don't know I kinda want to try them first before deciding if they're worth grinding. I've seen people do well in French battleships before so maybe I can do well too?

One of my best memories:

Clan battles, 2 years ago.

Republic speed boosting to a flank.

I spot a Zao 26 km away.

Dev strike first 2 minutes of the match.

FP, AFT, BFT for secondaries....

11.6 km secondaries....

 

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44 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

The French BBs are excellent from T6 up. The Lyon is amazing, great fire setter, murders cruisers. Richeliu has brutal guns and can spam out secondaries. Alsace is one of the most fun ships in the game. Republic has brilliant guns and is fast with decent armor.

It's really a fun line, dont' even hesitate. I also love their really unique retro look.

I agree with all of this. 

The French BB line gives players plenty of variety to help them decide what they like in a battleship - Low tier, they are nothing special but by mid tier they’re shotguns and by high tier they are speed demons (more like super heavy cruisers). Worth giving them a go, OP.

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8 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

I agree with all of this. 

The French BB line gives players plenty of variety to help them decide what they like in a battleship - Low tier, they are nothing special but by mid tier they’re shotguns and by high tier they are speed demons (more like super heavy cruisers). Worth giving them a go, OP.

     Cool, now I've got something to look up to now, thanks!

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1 minute ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

     Cool, now I've got something to look up to now, thanks!

No worries!

Just remember that speed boost can get you into trouble more easily than it can get you out of it, and you’ll be fine! ;-)

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I like my Alsace so much I would never even contemplate regrinding the line and not having it as an option for a while.

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1 hour ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

     So are the premium French BBs always better than the tech tree French battleships?

Not always.

Tier VI Dunkerque is fast for the tier and has powerful shells, but she is undermined by wild gunnery.  8 guns max leaves lots of room for RNG to screw her over.  Toss in FR BB dispersion, you got a trollish time.  Tech Tree Normandie is more forgiving with 12 guns while still being stupidly fast.

 

Tier VIII Gascogne is... Dull.  She's a Richelieu with different main and secondary battery arrangement.  She's not bad nor good, just like Richelieu.  Same dispersion / accuracy issues as Dunkerque and Richelieu.  Powerful shells undermined by wild gunnery and low rifle count of 8.

 

Tier IX Jean Bart is good, and she stakes her claim solely on her Main Battery.  The reload is good and it's backed up by Main Battery Reload Booster consumable.  Tech Tree FR BBs don't access that consumable.  JB isn't accurate, but her fast reloading guns means she's back in action sooner than most of her peers.  If Jean Bart is at a situation to punish someone, she can pop MBRB consumable and choke slam people into the dirt.

 

Tier X Bourgogne is good, ramp up Jean Bart to Alsace (12 guns instead of 8), pump up the stats befitting Tier X, voila!  Bourgogne!  If Secondary Spec is your thing, Bourgogne is important because she uses 127mm secondaries that actually can pen stuff.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

     I'm thinking of grinding another BB line when I'm finished with Iowa and I liked the look of the French BBs so I asked my friends about them, they said it's not really worth it because they're "susceptible to HE spam" and the accuracy is bad but I don't know I kinda want to try them first before deciding if they're worth grinding. I've seen people do well in French battleships before so maybe I can do well too?

As far as HE vulnerability - find me a non-Russian-Bias BB that ISN'T vulnerable to 152 mm IFHE spam until they actually nerf IFHE for tier 8+ cruisers. 

For me personally - tier 5-7 was pain, but 8+ BB's (tech tree and premium/special) is enjoyable and really good - if you understand you can't actually play them as a traditional BB. Think of them more as 'Superheavy Cruisers' with high speed. Their dispersion at range is pretty bad, their really close range flankers - in many ways similar to German BB's post IFHE (pre-IFHE Germany would have been the tanky close range brawler and France the flanker version). They just don't have the same secondary's that will crush anything - really only DD's with their 127 mm guns. 

Once you get to the 8+ - it's really about trying to keep the bow on/angled, much as you may get a third turret on the tier 9 - don't worry about it unless it's fighting cruisers. That is an edge they have that's great to exploit at those close ranges, especially broadside, and usually results in an advantage if the opponent angles. 

But that's me. If you can do well in German BB's (especially Scharn/Gnei) or Super/Battlecruisers - than these are probably ships for you, more so if your a madman like me who's figured out fighting Battleships in close range with particularly USN CA. If your a more traditional BB player, wanting to shrug hits off a little better and stay at range, not worry about flanking and steam roll, etc - well, not so much for you. 

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6 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

As far as HE vulnerability - find me a non-Russian-Bias BB that ISN'T vulnerable to 152 mm IFHE spam until they actually nerf IFHE for tier 8+ cruisers.

Sure.

High Tier USN BBs with 38mm deck armor.  Cleveland and all other normal CLs in High Tier with IFHE can get 37mm HE Pen.  Not even the Russian 180mm guns have that Pen with IFHE.  They have the same Pen is smaller 152mm guns.  The only CL guns that can HE Pen that USN 38mm deck armor are German CLs, who have a strong, built in HE Pen bonus.

 

German BBs with 50mm deck armor.

 

Tier IX-X IJN BBs with 57mm-58mm deck armor.

 

152mm armed Tier VIII Cleveland with IFHE:  37mm HE Pen.

180mm armed Tier X Alexander Nevsky with IFHE, same thing.

Premium 150mm armed Tier VIII Mainz completely stock, no traits, 38mm HE Pen.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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21 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Sure.

High Tier USN BBs with 38mm deck armor.  Cleveland and all other normal CLs in High Tier with IFHE can get 37mm HE Pen.  Not even the Russian 180mm guns have that Pen with IFHE.  They have the same Pen is smaller 152mm guns.  The only CL guns that can HE Pen that USN 38mm deck armor are German CLs, who have a strong, built in HE Pen bonus.

 

German BBs with 50mm deck armor.

 

Tier IX-X IJN BBs with 57mm-58mm deck armor.

 

152mm armed Tier VIII Cleveland with IFHE:  37mm HE Pen.

180mm armed Tier X Alexander Nevsky with IFHE, same thing.

Premium 150mm armed Tier VIII Mainz completely stock, no traits, 38mm HE Pen.

It's only 37 mm if the calculation rounds it down to 30 before applying IFHE's bonus.

Mogami also auto pens 38 mm - still a CL when using 155 mm guns.

And your forgetting the most important part of why IFHE has been a contentious issue - those areas of 38+ mm that actually present a chance to stop those rounds penetrating - only apply to a limited area in the center of the ship. Otherwise, when it was 32  mm of pen - there wouldn't have been complaints about it at high tiers because it wouldn't have penned anything. The bows and sterns - as well as the decks of those sections - on most, if not all of those, is 32 mm - that while tier 7 can no longer auto pen them, tier 8-10 can still. Which is no different than when IFHE first came out, or any of the subsequent changes including the nerf which only helped 8-10 if anything and hurt namely 6-7 that see those higher tier ships. 

The new USN BB's, sporting if I remember and read the update a while back correctly, are the only ones that will have consistent 38+ mm armour across the entire ship - meaning that until something more is done like reversing the pen buff high tier CL's got or removing IFHE - they will be the only ones other than maybe Russian ships that are actually immune to IFHE from most ships. 

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4 hours ago, CaptainZade_NA said:

     I'm thinking of grinding another BB line when I'm finished with Iowa and I liked the look of the French BBs so I asked my friends about them, they said it's not really worth it because they're "susceptible to HE spam" and the accuracy is bad but I don't know I kinda want to try them first before deciding if they're worth grinding. I've seen people do well in French battleships before so maybe I can do well too?

They are good..

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33 minutes ago, Gruntdog_3 said:

They are good..

Thank you for telling me, when I get on WoWs later on I'll make sure to start grinding them even without finishing the Iowa grind!

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