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weezal112

Missile Boats or Mine Layers?

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What are your thoughts on Wargaming possibly putting in Anti Ship missiles, either placing them on cruisers, destroyers, or even battleships. Or even making a whole new specialized ship specifically designed for missiles. And also mine laying. Either allowing current ships to drop mines which could be marked on allies' maps so your team members don't run into them or making a mine laying ship line specifically designed to lay mines. These two are major parts of sea warfare and I was just wondering what others thought about these two ideas and good ways they could be implemented in this game. 

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As surely as the sun rises, so too will teammates drive into friendly mines. A person could even troll their team by mining the capture point to prevent any teammates from going in safely.

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Minelaying could be interesting if well implemented. We have to be careful not to turn it into a pain in the [edited]that cannot be properly countered. I see BBs as the main victims, but they already have upcoming submarines to bite them from below.

I don't see how anti-ship missiles can be a balanced feature. The missiles are self-guided, so they always guarantee a hit if the target does not have hard-kill or soft-kill countermeasures. These countermeasures do not exist on WW2 era ships. If the players fly the missiles themselves, it'll become a worse version of CV play. 

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Missiles have already been played with in the deepest levels of the developer test servers, and were rejected.

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45 minutes ago, weezal112 said:

What are your thoughts on Wargaming possibly putting in Anti Ship missiles, either placing them on cruisers, destroyers, or even battleships. Or even making a whole new specialized ship specifically designed for missiles. And also mine laying. Either allowing current ships to drop mines which could be marked on allies' maps so your team members don't run into them or making a mine laying ship line specifically designed to lay mines. These two are major parts of sea warfare and I was just wondering what others thought about these two ideas and good ways they could be implemented in this game. 

Alaska and Guam on the CB side of the house.  Gyatt on the DD side come to mind.  Several others actually were converted for the Cold War.  To include the Iowa class.

I am not against missiles and the Cold War ships and weapons........which include jets; helicopters for spotting; Semi-guided Torpedoes; Guided anti-air; Guided Anti-Radar; and, some pretty smart mines as well.........  CIWS would have to figured in at some point and Anti-Mine clearing as well.......

Why not?  There is no where else to go in this game.....  And, to be honest, it's boring as all get out with the constant gimmicks and meta sales......... 

28 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Missiles have already been played with in the deepest levels of the developer test servers, and were rejected.

I've never read a single Dev report about missile testing and I've been in game almost three years now.  To be honest, our host can't afford the Cold War evolution of the game.  The maps are too small and the cost of programming missiles, radar, CIWS and Anti-Air radar would break their bank.  

This is a good idea OP but, there is little or no chance they'd ever take this on.......  It's far easier to simply clone ever DD/CA/BB ever listed and call them a new and exciting ship........buy now !!!   That is the extent of their imagination.........

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3 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

I've never read a single Dev report about missile testing and I've been in game almost three years now. 

 

The dev blogs are for things that they intend to put into the game.  Not a "what we did today", report.

It's entirely possible that they messed around with the idea internally, did some development and testing, decided it was a bad idea, full stop.  They aren't going to put that in a development report for the players.  They still talk about things like this on streams etc though, what they have tried, considered etc.

 

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2 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

ve never read a single Dev report about missile testing and I've been in game almost three years now.  To be honest, our host can't afford the Cold War evolution of the game.  The maps are too small and the cost of programming missiles, radar, CIWS and Anti-Air radar would break their bank.  

there was some testing being done for the russian dds for missiles but that was mostly just very early test. they fairly early found out that that would be a bad idea and did not pursue it further.

 

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4 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

I've never read a single Dev report about missile testing and I've been in game almost three years now.  To be honest, our host can't afford the Cold War evolution of the game.  The maps are too small and the cost of programming missiles, radar, CIWS and Anti-Air radar would break their bank.  

This is a good idea OP but, there is little or no chance they'd ever take this on.......  It's far easier to simply clone ever DD/CA/BB ever listed and call them a new and exciting ship........buy now !!!   That is the extent of their imagination.........

It was a while back I think before the sub proposals that they tested guided missiles and either they were OP or useless so it was scrapped.

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4 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

It's far easier to simply clone ever DD/CA/BB ever listed and call them a new and exciting ship........buy now !!! 

Yet that is not what they invariably did. There are quite a few ships in this game which are not duplicates of anything that went before, while some of the clones have significantly different equipment sets and playstyles to the original (e.g. Fletcher/Black, Ognevoi/Siliwangi, Benson/Lo Yang, Bismarck/Tirpitz). 

If I were going to codify a set of rules for new players, they would begin with:

1) There is nothing which obliges you to grind to the top of every line.

2) There is nothing which obliges you to buy everything on offer.

10 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Alaska and Guam on the CB side of the house.  Gyatt on the DD side come to mind. 

Guyatt actually received her missile fit (as a trials ship; it was later removed). The others did not. Terrier BW-0 had at best a 50% success rate, and firing two of those every 30 seconds with only 14 rounds available wouldn't be too difficult to balance. The missiles have a 10km range with a speed slower than French low-tier DD shells; it's quite conceivable that a good CV driver could dodge them. Anti-surface use with those early models was problematic at best; they wouldn't even hit as hard as Swedish torps.

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I don't think the idea of anti-ship missiles is dead forever (like anything is in WG).

The major problem is that current ships have no counterplay compared to missile armed ships, not even some half aft AI counter.  This would require breaking the queue up, something WG is loathe to do.

One thing to watch is how/if guided torpedoes work going forward.

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1 hour ago, weezal112 said:

What are your thoughts on Wargaming possibly putting in Anti Ship missiles, either placing them on cruisers, destroyers, or even battleships. Or even making a whole new specialized ship specifically designed for missiles.

This is a great idea for a new game title such as World of Modern Warships (no joke). It wouldn't fit in the current game but sounds amazing for a new wows style game involving only modern ships such as Zumwalt, Type 052D, Arleigh Burke, Daring, Kuznetsov, Nimitz, etc. I would pay $$$ for such a game.

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31 minutes ago, weezal112 said:

What are your thoughts on Wargaming possibly putting in Anti Ship missiles, either placing them on cruisers, destroyers, or even battleships. Or even making a whole new specialized ship specifically designed for missiles. And also mine laying. Either allowing current ships to drop mines which could be marked on allies' maps so your team members don't run into them or making a mine laying ship line specifically designed to lay mines. These two are major parts of sea warfare and I was just wondering what others thought about these two ideas and good ways they could be implemented in this game. 

My bet is missiles WILL happen at some point in the future. As it is now, we are reaching the end of the "gun age" in relation with content. Once subs are included, the next logical step is missiles. Since CVs are also one sided interactions, there's really not a big change in terms of gameplay if missiles are introduced.

Mines I think will have it harder to be included in the game, gameplay wise they are problematic to integrate in a non grieving way to the arcade/casual player base. Also, I haven't seen yet any significant amount of player requesting their favorite minelayer or minesweeper to be included in the game. So I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.  

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8 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

My bet is missiles WILL happen at some point in the future. As it is now, we are reaching the end of the "gun age" in relation with content. Once subs are included, the next logical step is missiles. Since CVs are also one sided interactions, there's really not a big change in terms of gameplay if missiles are introduced.

Mines I think will have it harder to be included in the game, gameplay wise they are problematic to integrate in a non grieving way to the arcade/casual player base. Also, I haven't seen yet any significant amount of player requesting their favorite minelayer or minesweeper to be included in the game. So I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.  

Sounds like the old Strike Fleet for the C64.....few guns , lots of missiles , ASROC , Soviet Bombers launching missiles from 250km away , CWIS,.....did I mention missiles ?

And don't forget the flack and chaff and other stuff .

And you thought being out in the open with 3 people locked on to you was exciting......hehehehehehehe

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43 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

To be honest, our host can't afford the Cold War evolution of the game.  The maps are too small and the cost of programming missiles, radar, CIWS and Anti-Air radar would break their bank.  

I disagree with this argument. Map scale is already being tested for enlargement (see next Halloween event), even if that weren't the case, scale wise is not different to having CVs operating in the small maps we have today. Missiles and CIWS are not really hard to implement into the current design, missiles are just another type of shell and CIWS work like an AA bubble. Guiding radar will be probably sorted in some other way, possibly as torpedo pings or simply "mouse guiding" the missiles.

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2 minutes ago, Gafwmn said:

Sounds like the old Strike Fleet for the C64.....few guns , lots of missiles , ASROC , Soviet Bombers launching missiles from 250km away , CWIS,.....did I mention missiles ?

And don't forget the flack and chaff and other stuff .

And you thought being out in the open with 3 people locked on to you was exciting......hehehehehehehe

LOL, I played a lot of Strike Fleet (and Destroyer) in my C64. Those times...

If you consider what we have now and what is already in testing, missiles and ASROC are just around the corner. CV  has the same of interaction than missiles, the new ASW plane consumable for BB/CA, sonar pings for subs with homing torps... it is just all already here. 

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Minelayers would be perfect for creating a picket down the strait of Two Brothers, but frankly mines are ripe for abuse.  IMO a more likely scenario would be new maps with designated minefields (similar to what we had in Operation: Dynamo.) 

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Minelayers have already been added. The Polish Gryf is a purpose built minelayer, and several other ship in the game(for example: Emile Bertin & Gnevny)have mines. It's just that you can't use them. 

As for fast attack craft, Model S2 boats are in-game and have use of their torpedoes.

As far as missiles are concerned, the only ship armed with useable missiles is the HMS Hood.

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5 hours ago, Whitebuster said:

Minelaying could be interesting if well implemented. We have to be careful not to turn it into a pain in the [edited]that cannot be properly countered. I see BBs as the main victims, but they already have upcoming submarines to bite them from below.

I don't see how anti-ship missiles can be a balanced feature. The missiles are self-guided, so they always guarantee a hit if the target does not have hard-kill or soft-kill countermeasures. These countermeasures do not exist on WW2 era ships. If the players fly the missiles themselves, it'll become a worse version of CV play. 

but then we also have the possibility that subs could get 1HKOed by magnetic mines...

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5 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yet that is not what they invariably did. There are quite a few ships in this game which are not duplicates of anything that went before, while some of the clones have significantly different equipment sets and playstyles to the original (e.g. Fletcher/Black, Ognevoi/Siliwangi, Benson/Lo Yang, Bismarck/Tirpitz). 

If I were going to codify a set of rules for new players, they would begin with:

1) There is nothing which obliges you to grind to the top of every line.

2) There is nothing which obliges you to buy everything on offer.

Guyatt actually received her missile fit (as a trials ship; it was later removed). The others did not. Terrier BW-0 had at best a 50% success rate, and firing two of those every 30 seconds with only 14 rounds available wouldn't be too difficult to balance. The missiles have a 10km range with a speed slower than French low-tier DD shells; it's quite conceivable that a good CV driver could dodge them. Anti-surface use with those early models was problematic at best; they wouldn't even hit as hard as Swedish torps.

But, this is a game.........where anything is possible !!!  It's what they intended is all that is important.  After all, we have pure imagination, blue-print ships in the game.!

I can't wait for missiles....... 

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Missiles ruined WWII aircraft sims and will do the same to WoWS. Missiles completely negate the 'old gun boats' style of ships. You think CVs are OP now? Wait till they field aircraft with Exocet ASMs!!

 

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No on both counts.

For Missiles, just no. Removing the need to lead a target is just too much. Even CV's have to lead a moving target. It would be the RTS Graf Zeppelin making automatic attacks all over again, without AA.

For Mines, are you nuts? You think people complain about passive play already? Just wait till a couple of mine layers drop minefields in the middle of the map. Only ships that would do anything would be Kongo, Fuso, and the CV spotting for them as everyone else would be out of range.

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