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slokill_1

ranked overhaul

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     So does this sound better than the usual rankled play?

ST 0.9.11, RANKED BATTLES OVERHAUL

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

In the near future, a new Ranked Battles system will be tested. 

The main features of the new system:

  • Ranked Seasons succeed each other almost immediately, only with short breaks to separate them.
  • Each Season is split into Sprints, each 1-3 weeks long.
  • In one Sprint, you can progress through one of the three Leagues and, upon reaching rank 1 and passing qualification, advance to the next League.
  • Rewards are given for a certain number of victories in the League, for reaching the first rank, and for passing qualification.
  • To ensure quality matchmaking, Ranked Battles are not available during periods of low activity.
 

Progression System: Leagues and Sprints

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  • The mechanics of ranks and stars remain unchanged.
  • Each Season has three Leagues: Bronze, Silver, and Gold. Each league will start you at your initial rank (for example, tenth), and have you fight to reach rank 1 for that league.
  • You can complete the League in one Sprint (one part of the Season, lasting 1-3 weeks). There are always no fewer Sprints than Leagues.
  • Upon reaching the first rank, qualification begins: to move to the next League, you need to get a certain number of stars. During qualification, you cannot drop to previous ranks.
  • If you've not reached the qualification or have not passed it, by the time a Sprint ends, then you'll start the next Sprint from the initial rank of the same League where you left off.
  • If the qualification is successfully completed, then you'll start the next Sprint from the initial rank of the next League.
  • During a Season, you cannot drop to the previous league.
  • Rewards are given for a certain number of victories in the League, for reaching the first rank, and for passing qualification.

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Seasons and format

  • Ranked Battles are ongoing - there are only small technical breaks between Seasons.
  • In different Leagues, battles can take place on ships of different Tiers, and not necessarily only on one. For example, in the Bronze League, battles can take place at Tier VIII, and at Tiers VIII - IX in the Silver League. The format may change from Season to Season.
  • The teams will always be strictly mirrored in ship types and Tiers.
  • Divisions still cannot participate In Ranked Battles.
  • To ensure quality matchmaking, Ranked Battles are not available during periods of low activity.

Other

  • After qualifying or getting the first rank in the Gold League, you cannot participate in Ranked Battles until the start of the next Sprint.
  • If you receive the first rank in the Gold League, then you'll start the next Sprint of the same Season at the initial rank of the Gold League but with newly available rewards.
  • Until you reach the first rank, you only play against other players in the same League. During the qualification, you'll be fighting against those who are passing the same qualification, as well as commanders from the higher League.
  • Seasons do not inherit progress from previous ranked Seasons and do not affect the next.
  • Removed flags of Leagues giving economic bonuses. Due to the new system of Ranked Battles, these flags would remain with the players almost indefinitely and would have a significant impact on the economy.
  • Ranked Battles emblems remain unchanged. Each star received for the first time in the Season is considered unique. In the event of a repeated passage of a League in the same Season, the stars will not be taken into account for the progress of the emblem.
  • The Jolly Roger achievement will be split into three, one for each League. They are awarded for reaching the first rank in the respective leagues once per Season.

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  • A commemorative flag is awarded for reaching the first rank in the Bronze League at least once a season.
  • Added three new camouflages: "Bronze", "Silver", and "Gold", given out as rewards in their respective Leagues.

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  • The interface of Ranked Battles and statistics in the player profile have been updated.
  • Unusual modes such as 1 vs 1 or 3 vs 3 will become part of the updated Clan Brawl, which will be playable without the need to be a clan member.

These changes to Ranked Battles will provide a near-constant source of action with additional progress.

The first Season of the updated Ranked Battles would begin in version 0.9.11. Season details will be published closer to the release of the update.

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A bit to complex.  sprints, seasons, qualifications and leagues and changing ship types between seasons - this is all too much for a smaller version of random with better rewards. 

 

My first thought was why are they doing this instead of fixing low tier CV imbalance?  Coupled with the poor MM at mid tiers especially T5, there are way more important hings the game needs than a more complex Ranked event.

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20 minutes ago, slokill_1 said:

 So does this sound better than the usual ranked play?

Honestly, no, slokill.  Oh, I'm happy that they appear willing to look at the issue, but I'm not really impressed with what I see.  I will say that it's possible that this overhaul might be better than it first appears to me.  

Personally, I think that what this all comes down to is competing philosophies of what Ranked should be at a very high level, rather than the details.  (Once a vision of what Ranked should be, developing the details involved shouldn't be all that difficult.)

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15 minutes ago, AXELGREASE said:

A bit to complex.  sprints, seasons, qualifications and leagues and changing ship types between seasons - this is all too much for a smaller version of random with better rewards. 

 

My first thought was why are they doing this instead of fixing low tier CV imbalance?  Coupled with the poor MM at mid tiers especially T5, there are way more important things the game needs than a more complex Ranked event.

They may not agree with your assessment.  And since it's their game, like it or not, they'll work on what *they* feel needs working on.

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16 minutes ago, Crucis said:

They may not agree with your assessment.  And since it's their game, like it or not, they'll work on what *they* feel needs working on.

LOL, Your right about that!

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The two biggest issues of ranked remain:

1. People 'rank out' and are thus removed from the player pool, meaning the best players at any given time get removed from the pool. This means the ladder can never reach equilibrium and the general population gets 'dumbed down' as the season progresses.

2. Progress is only weakly related to relative player performance (i.e. not taking the relative 'skill' of opponents and teams into account) meaning a lot of it is down to RNG and MM. This in turn means you need to average over a lot of games to see player performance matter more than RNG and MM. A recipe for saltiness and frustration in a mode supposedly about 'competitiveness' and 'player skill'. A better system would assign 'stars' based on how well you were expected to perform vs. how well you actually did.

It might make things better and more enjoyable, but the two fundamental issues remain. On a side note, there is already a thread on this in the appropriate sub-forum: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/303-developers-corner/

 

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16 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

The two biggest issues of ranked remain:

1. People 'rank out' and are thus removed from the player pool, meaning the best players at any given time get removed from the pool. This means the ladder can never reach equilibrium and the general population gets 'dumbed down' as the season progresses.

2. Progress is only weakly related to relative player performance (i.e. not taking the relative 'skill' of opponents and teams into account) meaning a lot of it is down to RNG and MM. This in turn means you need to average over a lot of games to see player performance matter more than RNG and MM. A recipe for saltiness and frustration in a mode supposedly about 'competitiveness' and 'player skill'. A better system would assign 'stars' based on how well you were expected to perform vs. how well you actually did.

It might make things better and more enjoyable, but the two fundamental issues remain. On a side note, there is already a thread on this in the appropriate sub-forum: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/303-developers-corner/

 

1. I don't agree with #1 at all.  Oh, I agree that players who rank out are removed from the pool of players, but I don't see that as a bad thing or an issue AT ALL.

2. This is why I've long proposed a system where advancement was entirely based on Base XP rewarded rather than stars.  If you win, of course, you'll earn more BXP.  But the amount of BXP awarded also reflects how productive you were.

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1 hour ago, AXELGREASE said:

My first thought was why are they doing this instead of fixing low tier CV imbalance?

What are you talking about? The only time I have ever played a game with asymmetrical #s of CV's on the teams was during Asymmetric Battles, and that's no longer available. Besides, the lowest tier in Asymmetric was T5.

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You all have to understand that WG wants Ranked Battles to be a grind were no matter your skill level you will spend all your money, free XP and sell your kid sister to get to R1.

WG just made getting to R1 a grind X3.

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17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

1. I don't agree with #1 at all.  Oh, I agree that players who rank out are removed from the pool of players, but I don't see that as a bad thing or an issue AT ALL.

Well, here are my thoughts why this is a 'bad thing': The idea - as I understand it - behind a ranked or ladder mode is to have some form of competitive mode for 'lone wolves', i.e. players who want to challenge themselves and are competitive minded but don't have the time to participate in clan battles for whatever reason. So, for that to work your progress on the ladder and your position should somehow reflect your personal performance relative to the rest of the playerbase; top players at the top, not-so-top players and the not-so-top. This means that, given the 'progression' condition (stars etc.) is not too bad, your position on the ladder reflects your relative performance to other players.

Now, when you constantly remove the top players you constantly remove the top of the leaderboard the average performance of the playerbase drops accordingly. Thus, the formerly not-so-top players are now the top-players. In turn they are removed shortly. This is somewhat countered by new players but at some point in time less players join since everyone is already in ranked. Now the new top players are also removed, further 'lowering' the required performance. Over time this means this form of ranked does not reflect relative performance of players. It just becomes a grind with some players taking longer to do it vs the high-performers doing it quicker. It is not a ranked competitive mode, it is just another grind.

I would be ok with the latter outcome, but then please make sure everyone gets that this is not a ranked mode, ladder or league in any of the commonly understood ways (i.e. how other games do it) but just another mode to grind in. To my eyes this misunderstanding and conflict between seeing ranked as a 'competitive mode' while it is just about another grind where you have to primarily deal with MM and RNG is what causes so much frustration and salt.

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3 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Well, here are my thoughts why this is a 'bad thing': The idea - as I understand it - behind a ranked or ladder mode is to have some form of competitive mode for 'lone wolves', i.e. players who want to challenge themselves and are competitive minded but don't have the time to participate in clan battles for whatever reason. So, for that to work your progress on the ladder and your position should somehow reflect your personal performance relative to the rest of the playerbase; top players at the top, not-so-top players and the not-so-top. This means that, given the 'progression' condition (stars etc.) is not too bad, your position on the ladder reflects your relative performance to other players.

Now, when you constantly remove the top players you constantly remove the top of the leaderboard the average performance of the playerbase drops accordingly. Thus, the formerly not-so-top players are now the top-players. In turn they are removed shortly. This is somewhat countered by new players but at some point in time less players join since everyone is already in ranked. Now the new top players are also removed, further 'lowering' the required performance. Over time this means this form of ranked does not reflect relative performance of players. It just becomes a grind with some players taking longer to do it vs the high-performers doing it quicker. It is not a ranked competitive mode, it is just another grind.

I would be ok with the latter outcome, but then please make sure everyone gets that this is not a ranked mode, ladder or league in any of the commonly understood ways (i.e. how other games do it) but just another mode to grind in. To my eyes this misunderstanding and conflict between seeing ranked as a 'competitive mode' while it is just about another grind where you have to primarily deal with MM and RNG is what causes so much frustration and salt.

1. It's not a competitive mode for lone wolves.  Otherwise, why do you see so many unicums in it?  After all, most unicums are there because they pad their stats by playing in divs.  Hardly the behavior of a lone wolf.

2. I just do not care about the consequences of removing already ranked out players from the player pool of Ranked.  Like I said above, what this all comes down to is a philosophical debate.  And I come down on the side that everyone should have a chance to rank out, if they're willing to put in the time and effort.  I see the alternative philosophy as snobby, elitist mode where the unicums want to display their epeens for the rest of the community to see so they can lord over lesser players.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

1. It's not a competitive mode for lone wolves.  Otherwise, why do you see so many unicums in it?  After all, most unicums are there because they pad their stats by playing in divs.  Hardly the behavior of a lone wolf.

2. I just do not care about the consequences of removing already ranked out players from the player pool of Ranked.  Like I said above, what this all comes down to is a philosophical debate.  And I come down on the side that everyone should have a chance to rank out, if they're willing to put in the time and effort.  I see the alternative philosophy as snobby, elitist mode where the unicums want to display their epeens for the rest of the community to see so they can lord over lesser players.

1. I have not seen a single division in ranked. Unicums, as most other players, are in it for the rewards and steel.

2. I get that you don't care, and I agree that it is a question of philosophy and what you want 'ranked' to be. And here we disagree: I dont want it to be another grind with random teams because we already have that in randoms. And I don't have time for clan battles or much clan activity. So, you might be ok with ranked being just another grind for different rewards, but I was looking for something else and when I saw the name 'ranked' I assumed it was exactly NOT another form of randoms with rewards. You might call that snobby, elitist etc. but then all of e-sports, regular sports, olympics etc. are also snobby and elitist. I don't see it that way.

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2 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

A commemorative flag is awarded for reaching the first rank in the Bronze League at least once a season.

Rats.

Was hoping they would eliminate this; that way I could give Ranked a big fat bird for the waste of time I feel it to be, outside flag collecting, and just completely ignore it from here on out.

57 minutes ago, Crucis said:

2. This is why I've long proposed a system where advancement was entirely based on Base XP rewarded rather than stars.  If you win, of course, you'll earn more BXP.  But the amount of BXP awarded also reflects how productive you were.

That would make sense; but of course WG is too full of themselves to actually do something than made such sense.

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25 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

1. I have not seen a single division in ranked. Unicums, as most other players, are in it for the rewards and steel.

2. I get that you don't care, and I agree that it is a question of philosophy and what you want 'ranked' to be. And here we disagree: I dont want it to be another grind with random teams because we already have that in randoms. And I don't have time for clan battles or much clan activity. So, you might be ok with ranked being just another grind for different rewards, but I was looking for something else and when I saw the name 'ranked' I assumed it was exactly NOT another form of randoms with rewards. You might call that snobby, elitist etc. but then all of e-sports, regular sports, olympics etc. are also snobby and elitist. I don't see it that way.

1. I wasn't talking about divs in ranked.  I was talking about divs in randoms.  That should have been blindingly obvious to one and all.

2. It's already a grind.  "E-sports" is a joke perpetuated on the world by a bunch of geeks that probably don't know how to throw a ball or do the slightest little thing that requires some athleticism on any level.  I just can't take the pretense that sitting in front of a computer screen and playing a video game is a "sport".

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2 hours ago, AXELGREASE said:

A bit to complex.  sprints, seasons, qualifications and leagues and changing ship types between seasons - this is all too much for a smaller version of random with better rewards. 

 

My first thought was why are they doing this instead of fixing low tier CV imbalance?  Coupled with the poor MM at mid tiers especially T5, there are way more important hings the game needs than a more complex Ranked event.

I think this is one of those harder to explain than to understand when involved things.

The real problem with the ships that see tier 4 CV's is too many do not have useful AA and there are some with zero AA. Address that and while they will still be irritating those all too common double tier 4 CV matches will not be as painful.

1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

The two biggest issues of ranked remain:

1. People 'rank out' and are thus removed from the player pool, meaning the best players at any given time get removed from the pool. This means the ladder can never reach equilibrium and the general population gets 'dumbed down' as the season progresses.

2. Progress is only weakly related to relative player performance (i.e. not taking the relative 'skill' of opponents and teams into account) meaning a lot of it is down to RNG and MM. This in turn means you need to average over a lot of games to see player performance matter more than RNG and MM. A recipe for saltiness and frustration in a mode supposedly about 'competitiveness' and 'player skill'. A better system would assign 'stars' based on how well you were expected to perform vs. how well you actually did.

It might make things better and more enjoyable, but the two fundamental issues remain. On a side note, there is already a thread on this in the appropriate sub-forum: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/303-developers-corner/

 

1) That is going to happen no matter what and happens in clan battles too as the better clans top out.

2) That advancing is so tied to team performance is the main reason that I don't/extremely rarely play ranked because no matter how good you do if the rest of your team is not up to snuff the best you can do is not lose a star. I know I would never rank out in a base experience system but I would want to see how well I could do but with the current system I have almost zero interest.

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

1. I wasn't talking about divs in ranked.  I was talking about divs in randoms.  That should have been blindingly obvious to one and all.

2. It's already a grind.  "E-sports" is a joke perpetuated on the world by a bunch of geeks that probably don't know how to throw a ball or do the slightest little thing that requires some athleticism on any level.  I just can't take the pretense that sitting in front of a computer screen and playing a video game is a "sport".

Apologies, must have conflated 'it' with 'there' in the quote below. Also, I was not just talking about unicums but about a portion of regular players like me. Ranked is not just for unicums, you know?

36 minutes ago, Crucis said:

1. It's not a competitive mode for lone wolves.  Otherwise, why do you see so many unicums in it?  After all, most unicums are there because they pad their stats by playing in divs.  Hardly the behavior of a lone wolf.

2. A bunch of geeks, and a lot of other people like for example chess players would like to disagree with you. Please don't be so condescending to others. And I know people who played competitive games online and were quite active in "real sports" at the same time.

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

1. I wasn't talking about divs in ranked.  I was talking about divs in randoms.  That should have been blindingly obvious to one and all.

2. It's already a grind.  "E-sports" is a joke perpetuated on the world by a bunch of geeks that probably don't know how to throw a ball or do the slightest little thing that requires some athleticism on any level.  I just can't take the pretense that sitting in front of a computer screen and playing a video game is a "sport".

 

Then the idea of drone combat from Nevada Bases overseas plinking Taliban enemies etc in real time is not real life?

To have a fast computer and take on similar machines and fast people in a game online or LAN etc is pretty competitive. not all of us stand as Nose center or linebackers as I once did long ago. I was not much good at it but slowed down them other team long enough for the ball to be forward.

As far as the ranked overhaul. the main flaw is advancement of stars. Ive played about 15 games more or less at rank 12 which is irrevocable and all were defeats. So there is no advancement.

It is however a credit piling machine. At least it's worth that.

Edited by xHeavy

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Just one thing, if there was a way where players from rank 1 could still play rank...do you think they'll still play the taxing effort?

When I rank out I take a break and drink a glass of cool water.

Edited by CHAOS_in_the_N1GHT
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21 minutes ago, CHAOS_in_the_N1GHT said:

Just one thing, if there was a way where players from rank 1 could still play rank...do you think they'll still play the taxing effort?

When I rank out I take a break and drink a glass of cool water.

Well, I thought the whole Idea was to find a way to make this an enjoyable experience that people would see as something fun to do and not a 'chore' to get some rewards. Then I would assume people would play it on/off with randoms etc.

But right now I can't see myself wanting to play this anymore than necessary because it is just another grind. If that is how you would like to have ranked, then sure, people will want to 'rank out' just to be done with it. Can't help to think that this is not healthy goal, though.

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1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

Apologies, must have conflated 'it' with 'there' in the quote below. Also, I was not just talking about unicums but about a portion of regular players like me. Ranked is not just for unicums, you know?

2. A bunch of geeks, and a lot of other people like for example chess players would like to disagree with you. Please don't be so condescending to others. And I know people who played competitive games online and were quite active in "real sports" at the same time.

I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear about how I was linking that unicum divs to randoms.  Regardless, I will be condescending to whomever I damned well choose to be condescending to.  I treat people with respect when they deserve that respect.  And having a pulse does not make one worthy.

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50 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Regardless, I will be condescending to whomever I damned well choose to be condescending to.  I treat people with respect when they deserve that respect.  And having a pulse does not make one worthy.

OK, I can accept that, though don't expect to get any respect in return then.

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

2. It's already a grind.  "E-sports" is a joke perpetuated on the world by a bunch of geeks that probably don't know how to throw a ball or do the slightest little thing that requires some athleticism on any level.  I just can't take the pretense that sitting in front of a computer screen and playing a video game is a "sport".

The relevant thing here is probably not whether or not video games are a sport (who cares, bridge is a sport according to the IOC) but whether the 'ranked' game mode accomplishes the implicit task of 'ranking' players by ability. Since rather bad players can attain rank 1 by playing 700 games in the season, it is hard to argue that it does.

2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

I think this is one of those harder to explain than to understand when involved things.

The real problem with the ships that see tier 4 CV's is too many do not have useful AA and there are some with zero AA. Address that and while they will still be irritating those all too common double tier 4 CV matches will not be as painful.

The problem with tier 4 CVs is not that there are ships with zero AA. There are only a few of those in the tier 4 matchmaking bracket, and AA in general is ineffective so having none is not as big a loss as it sounds.

Tier 4 CVs simply have much higher damage output relative to the health of tier 4 ships.

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1 minute ago, WernerHerzdog said:

The problem with tier 4 CVs is not that there are ships with zero AA. There are only a few of those in the tier 4 matchmaking bracket, and AA in general is ineffective so having none is not as big a loss as it sounds.

Tier 4 CVs simply have much higher damage output relative to the health of tier 4 ships.

That is what I was talking about with tier 3,4, and some tier 5 ships. Most have AA that is so weak that tier 4 planes laugh at them.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

That is what I was talking about with tier 3,4, and some tier 5 ships. Most have AA that is so weak that tier 4 planes laugh at them.

I'm not sure you read the post. Equal tier planes generally laugh at AA. What makes tier 4 CVs particularly bad is their extreme damage output.

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