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Teriander

AP Damage

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It's crazy to me that two battleships of the same type can shoot each other with over 50 forms of an impact, and still float.  I know you have to hit the sweet spots of citadels and ammo, but still.  If they were this ineffective in the real-world, admirals would have picked an alternative to  BBs leading the charge at sea during WW2. 

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11 minutes ago, Teriander said:

It's crazy to me that two battleships of the same type can shoot each other with over 50 forms of an impact, and still float.  I know you have to hit the sweet spots of citadels and ammo, but still.  If they were this ineffective in the real-world, admirals would have picked an alternative to  BBs leading the charge at sea during WW2. 

And when an arcade game is used as a war simulator we will have everyone In charge call you for your advice on the subject.  

Edited by _ENO_
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15 minutes ago, Teriander said:

If they were this ineffective in the real-world, admirals would have picked an alternative to  BBs leading the charge at sea during WW2. 

You mean, like carriers?

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Be careful of invoking the "real world". Battleship engagements during WW1 and WW2 usually consisted of at least 5 or 6 salvoes before hits were scored and one could expect around a 10% to 15% hit ratio.  Unlike this game where 40% to 50% is the norm.  I understand the absence of knowledge of real world ballistics might lead you to wonder why an object made of hardened steel might be particularly resilient.  Is this simply an observation of game mechanics or is there something specific you would like to know about naval gunnery?

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21 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

And when an arcade game is used as a war simulator we will have everyone In charge call you for your advice on the subject.  

This is an arcade game?  Ahh damn, I thought they were going for realism.  Ok thanks!  Moving on to other sims.  

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16 minutes ago, 56Bravo said:

Be careful of invoking the "real world". Battleship engagements during WW1 and WW2 usually consisted of at least 5 or 6 salvoes before hits were scored and one could expect around a 10% to 15% hit ratio.  Unlike this game where 40% to 50% is the norm.  I understand the absence of knowledge of real world ballistics might lead you to wonder why an object made of hardened steel might be particularly resilient.  Is this simply an observation of game mechanics or is there something specific you would like to know about naval gunnery?

Sounds like you have a point.  Oh wait, Prince of Wales was struck four times by Bismarck and three times by Prinz Eugen.  But how could I know that since apparently I don't know anything about history?  Hmm.  

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14 minutes ago, Teriander said:

It's crazy to me that two battleships of the same type can shoot each other with over 50 forms of an impact, and still float.  I know you have to hit the sweet spots of citadels and ammo, but still.  If they were this ineffective in the real-world, admirals would have picked an alternative to  BBs leading the charge at sea during WW2. 

That's actually more effective than real life.

Ship's in game frequently hit with more than one shell per salvo, and frequently hit on the first salvo.

Real life, as per US Navy standards in peacetime practice, you wouldn't be expected to hit anything in your first 2 salvos, and only by the third salvo would you even have a chance of hitting. Hitting with more than one shell per salvo was rare, in the event you even got a hit.

You are seeing far better results than what 1940's fire control could achieve in game, navies were continually looking for better, and they got the best they could develop.

In 1916, SMS Seydlitz was hit by 21 large caliber shells, 2 smaller caliber shells, and a torpedo. She made it back home and was repaired. SMS Seydlitz was a German Battlecruiser, which is more like a fast battleship than the Royal Navy's battlecruisers. 

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5 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

That's actually more effective than real life.

Ship's in game frequently hit with more than one shell per salvo, and frequently hit on the first salvo.

Real life, as per US Navy standards in peacetime practice, you wouldn't be expected to hit anything in your first 2 salvos, and only by the third salvo would you even have a chance of hitting. Hitting with more than one shell per salvo was rare, in the event you even got a hit.

You are seeing far better results than what 1940's fire control could achieve in game, navies were continually looking for better, and they got the best they could develop.

In 1916, SMS Seydlitz was hit by 21 large caliber shells, 2 smaller caliber shells, and a torpedo. She made it back home and was repaired. SMS Seydlitz was a German Battlecruiser, which is more like a fast battleship than the Royal Navy's battlecruisers. 

That would actually make this game more realistic.  Lower odds of hitting at far ranges, higher damage output when actually hitting.  Odds of hitting increase at a closer range.   That would make this far more realistic.  

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5 minutes ago, Teriander said:

Sounds like you have a point.  Oh wait, Prince of Wales was struck four times by Bismarck and three times by Prinz Eugen.  But how could I know that since apparently I don't know anything about history?  Hmm.  

Bismarck fired 93 rounds at both HMS Hood an HMS Prince of Wales, for a total of 6 hits.

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Just now, SgtBeltfed said:

Bismarck fired 93 rounds at both HMS Hood an HMS Prince of Wales, for a total of 6 hits.

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales.  In my example from my first post, I used 50 hits as an example, my number of shots was probably in the hundreds.  I only counted the impacts and lack of damage.  

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25 minutes ago, Teriander said:

This is an arcade game?  Ahh damn, I thought they were going for realism.  Ok thanks!  Moving on to other sims.  

Bye. 

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9 minutes ago, Teriander said:

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales.  In my example from my first post, I used 50 hits as an example, my number of shots was probably in the hundreds.  I only counted the impacts and lack of damage.  

4 torpedoes, and one direct hit from an 1100 pound bomb are what did HMS Prince of Wales in, about 5 months later and half a world away.

Hood was probably hit 3 times, once by Prinz Eugen (causing the boat deck fire), and at most twice by Bismarck (one to the spotting top, and the round that hit the aft magazines that killed her). 

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

You mean, like carriers?

giphy-downsized-large.gif&f=1&nofb=1

1 hour ago, Teriander said:

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales.

latest?cb=20130901161317&f=1&nofb=1

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, Teriander said:

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales. 

And Derfflinger got hit 26 times and survived, just saying.

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1 hour ago, Teriander said:

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales.  

Please actually learn about history before you try to use it as an argument for anything, please.

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On 9/25/2020 at 7:31 PM, Teriander said:

Sounds like you have a point.  Oh wait, Prince of Wales was struck four times by Bismarck and three times by Prinz Eugen.  But how could I know that since apparently I don't know anything about history?  Hmm.  

lol.

No, actually I was strongly implying that you didn't know beans about ballistics.  Never even said anything about history, just compared reality to an arcade game. Though you do seem somewhat prickly about history, which is kind of weird. 

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2 minutes ago, 56Bravo said:

lol.

No, actually I was strongly implying that you didn't know beans about ballistics.  Never even said anything about history, just compared reality to an arcade game. Though you do seem somewhat prickly about history, which is kind of weird. 

 

Reminds me of my brother, absolutely -hates- being corrected when he says something about IJN ships and then gets corrected with actual data :/

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1 minute ago, Princess_Daystar said:

 

Reminds me of my brother, absolutely -hates- being corrected when he says something about IJN ships and then gets corrected with actual data :/

I know, right?  The least he could do is get his Jimmies in a bunch over the insult I "actually" intended....  XD

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On 9/25/2020 at 6:55 PM, Teriander said:

It's crazy to me that two battleships of the same type can shoot each other with over 50 forms of an impact, and still float.  I know you have to hit the sweet spots of citadels and ammo, but still.  If they were this ineffective in the real-world, admirals would have picked an alternative to  BBs leading the charge at sea during WW2. 

one word, ARMOR

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On 9/25/2020 at 7:44 PM, Teriander said:

And 6 hits is what it took to sink Prince of Wales.

um-stop-you-can-leave-now.jpg

PoW wasnt sunk at Denmark Strait 

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Here is the list of Dreadnought and later era battleships sunk by gunfire alone:

Bretagne

Kirishima

 

 

That's it. Battleships were incredibly resistant to gunfire. Bismarck took 400 hits and was still floating.

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1 hour ago, Epic_Baller said:

That's it. Battleships were incredibly resistant to gunfire. Bismarck took 400 hits and was still floating.

Bismark OP. Please nerf. 

 

Oh... wait. 

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On 9/25/2020 at 7:40 PM, Teriander said:

That would actually make this game more realistic.  Lower odds of hitting at far ranges, higher damage output when actually hitting.  Odds of hitting increase at a closer range.   That would make this far more realistic.  

More realistic, and less appealing to most of the players. This is already a niche game as it is.

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