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Ramagar_RoK

More Ocean maps please

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More ocean maps would fix a lot in the game play.  No hiding, no finding your little hideyhole/graphics glitch place to fire from behind; actual maneuvering  and shooting and dodging.  More fluid game play and no magical pixel rock you get stuck on the whole game.

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Agree.  I actually enjoy the ocean map.  Would also like to see a map with maybe one island in the middle, or 2 centered around the middle.

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I think the ocean map would be more useful, and fun, at lower tiers.  The ships can't shoot as far so there's no dominating the map.  For new players this would simplify learning the game-- how to keep your ship positioned to not get citadeled, how to aim as you are firing all the time, etc.  There's also far less chance of one-shoting ships like you can at higher tiers if you are lucky.

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

There's a reason its rarely seen, because the feedback to WG about this map has been overwhelmingly negative.

Why should a bunch of loudmouths get to dictate which maps are seen?  Why shouldn't we all get at least SOME maps that we like, even when it may mean that there are others in the rotation that we don't like?

Frankly, I've seen some pretty pathetic reasons for not liking Ocean.  Like saying that Ocean isn't a good map for DDs, which is total tripe.  Ocean is the best DD map in the game.  You have no islands blocking your ability to use your torps out to their max range.  And gunboat DDs never have to worry about running into islands because they're so focused on their gunnery.

About the only group of ships that have difficulty with Ocean are cruisers with shorter ranged guns, like the Cleveland or Helena/Boise or the Atlanta/Flint.  Even Brit CLs can use smoke on Ocean to counter some of their difficulty.  And I'd also counter that we have to put up with those  very same ships camping behind islands and shooting at the rest of us unspotted.  It seems entirely fair to me that the tables get turned once in a while, and those CLs have to deal with some open ocean combat.

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15 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Why should a bunch of loudmouths get to dictate which maps are seen?  Why shouldn't we all get at least SOME maps that we like, even when it may mean that there are others in the rotation that we don't like?

Frankly, I've seen some pretty pathetic reasons for not liking Ocean.  Like saying that Ocean isn't a good map for DDs, which is total tripe.  Ocean is the best DD map in the game.  You have no islands blocking your ability to use your torps out to their max range.  And gunboat DDs never have to worry about running into islands because they're so focused on their gunnery.

About the only group of ships that have difficulty with Ocean are cruisers with shorter ranged guns, like the Cleveland or Helena/Boise or the Atlanta/Flint.  Even Brit CLs can use smoke on Ocean to counter some of their difficulty.  And I'd also counter that we have to put up with those  very same ships camping behind islands and shooting at the rest of us unspotted.  It seems entirely fair to me that the tables get turned once in a while, and those CLs have to deal with some open ocean combat.

I can see why it's problematic for some DDs.  Some DDs don't have smoke and many of them can't fire their torps from a range that is further than their own detection. 

So with no islands to break contact, they have to expose themselves to do any damage at all.  Once they do, the only way they have to do go dark is stop firing, run away, and just hope they the can survive the incoming fire from every ship in range, long enough.

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23 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Why should a bunch of loudmouths get to dictate which maps are seen?

It's not from loudmouths.  WG has on several occasions talked about the feedback they receive from surveys have been overwhelmingly negative.

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1 hour ago, Ramagar_RoK said:

More ocean maps would fix a lot in the game play.  No hiding, no finding your little hideyhole/graphics glitch place to fire from behind; actual maneuvering  and shooting and dodging.  More fluid game play and no magical pixel rock you get stuck on the whole game.

You realize that people play way further apart on ocean than they do on other maps, right? 

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11 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

You realize that people play way further apart on ocean than they do on other maps, right? 

They start pushing in when it becomes clear that they can't take or defend a cap from 20 km.  And if they don't, they lose.  It's usually the teams that grow a pair that win.  Not just on Ocean, but on most maps.

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I love seeing Ocean come up -- you can tell who knows what their armor and rudder and throttle are for, and who needs a rock to protect them from mean red ships.

 

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

They start pushing in when it becomes clear that they can't take or defend a cap from 20 km.  And if they don't, they lose.  It's usually the teams that grow a pair that win.  Not just on Ocean, but on most maps.

At that point its too late. The team that wins is the one with better dd players and radar cruisers that can play close to dominate the caps. If you kill the enemy dds, then you dominate the cap and force the enemy to do something and kill them as they come one by one. 

Ocean is a stagnant mess of trash. It typically goes with teams going to the corners and working from there. The engagement distances are long, it's super boring and unimaginative. 

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Ocean map separated the men from the boys. Unfortunately too many toddlers screamed bloody murder because they couldn't adapt their game and WG gave in.

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4 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Ocean map separated the men from the boys. Unfortunately too many toddlers screamed bloody murder because they couldn't adapt their game and WG gave in.

Ocean mostly separates the players with ships that can fight in open water and those that aren't balance for that.  And imagine WG giving in to overwhelming negative feedback, they have some nerve.

I'd love to see all the people that claim to like ocean be forced to play it over and over again, in ships that aren't balanced to fight in open water.  Yes, we all know, you guys are awesome and you won't have any trouble with that. :Smile_smile:

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17 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

At that point its too late. The team that wins is the one with better dd players and radar cruisers that can play close to dominate the caps. If you kill the enemy dds, then you dominate the cap and force the enemy to do something and kill them as they come one by one. 

Ocean is a stagnant mess of trash. It typically goes with teams going to the corners and working from there. The engagement distances are long, it's super boring and unimaginative. 

I don't know what game you're playing because (other than CVs), I've never seen ships to into the corners to fight from there.

As for engagements, I find them to be interesting and more realistic.  And I stand by my belief that people who like Ocean and open maps in general should have some maps that THEY like in the rotation.  The rotation shouldn't be filled with maps that only one segment of the community likes.

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3 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Ocean mostly separates the players with ships that can fight in open water and those that aren't balance for that.  And imagine WG giving in to overwhelming negative feedback, they have some nerve.

I'd love to see all the people that claim to like ocean be forced to play it over and over again, in ships that aren't balanced to fight in open water.  Yes, we all know, you guys are awesome and you won't have any trouble with that. :Smile_smile:

I don't buy that the feedback is overwhelming.  To me, it all goes back to the loudmouths.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I don't buy that the feedback is overwhelming.  To me, it all goes back to the loudmouths.

Then you can go look for Q&As from Sub_O, he's mentioned it several times over the years.

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1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

I can see why it's problematic for some DDs.  Some DDs don't have smoke and many of them can't fire their torps from a range that is further than their own detection. 

So with no islands to break contact, they have to expose themselves to do any damage at all.  Once they do, the only way they have to do go dark is stop firing, run away, and just hope they the can survive the incoming fire from every ship in range, long enough.

Remember when Le Terrible was first introduced?  People complained and complained about how it would be very difficult if not impossible to play a DD without smoke.  Now we have, not just one, but two DD lines that don't have smoke and are both entirely capable of being played successfully.   I see no reason that people can't learn to play DDs on open maps, whether Ocean or just an open area on a some other map.  One just has to learn to adapt to changing conditions.

 

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1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

I can see why it's problematic for some DDs.  Some DDs don't have smoke and many of them can't fire their torps from a range that is further than their own detection. 

So with no islands to break contact, they have to expose themselves to do any damage at all.  Once they do, the only way they have to do go dark is stop firing, run away, and just hope they the can survive the incoming fire from every ship in range, long enough.

Disclaimer, I hate Ocean.

But in a DD I don't try to do much damage at all, I hold fire until the enemy DD is lit. My game is focused on keeping as much of the enemy fleet spotted as I can and launch torpedoes on cooldown. Let the big boys shoot it out. I also try to keep the enemy DD from harassing my team. Generally low damage games for me.  

 

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2 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

There's a reason its rarely seen, because the feedback to WG about this map has been overwhelmingly negative.

I would be able to give some feedback if I could actually play it. I can count with my fingers the times I've played Ocean. Good or bad, I would like to play it more.

36 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

 

Ocean is a stagnant mess of trash. It typically goes with teams going to the corners and working from there. The engagement distances are long, it's super boring and unimaginative. 

If it plays that way imo, it is because player's issues. An "open" battlefield is the purest form for a "naval" tactics game, it is ridiculous we don't get to play open water maps in a naval game.  It is also the best map to play along and against CVs, and to really engage in support teamplay... Smoke screen deployment, focus fire, aggro control and visibility games. 

31 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Ocean mostly separates the players with ships that can fight in open water and those that aren't balance for that.  

That's true, but it wouldn't be the only situation in the game where you have to deal with the wrong ship for the needed task. The old adapt and overcome motto remains true in this case, and there is fun to be had in doing it.

33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 

As for engagements, I find them to be interesting and more realistic.  And I stand by my belief that people who like Ocean and open maps in general should have some maps that THEY like in the rotation.  The rotation shouldn't be filled with maps that only one segment of the community likes.

This is not only true but fair. I have to play more than enough Epicenter even though I hate that mode. Why can't I play Ocean then?

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18 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I would be able to give some feedback if I could actually play it.

You seem to have firm sounding opinions about a map you haven't played.  Here's something for you to ponder, do you think all of the overwhelmingly negative feedback from players that actually did get to play map are just wrong?

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15 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

You seem to have firm sounding opinions about a map you haven't played.

I'm very good at theory :Smile_glasses:

16 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Here's something for you to ponder, do you think all of the overwhelmingly negative feedback from players that actually did get to play map are just wrong?

I have a long history at disapproving and distrusting majorities.  The fact an aparent majority of players likes Epicenter mode only reinforces my opinion.

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41 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I'm very good at theory 

And apparently terrible with objective reality. :Smile-_tongue:  That's a joke, please don't be offended.

51 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I have a long history at disapproving and distrusting majorities.  The fact an aparent majority of players likes Epicenter mode only reinforces my opinion.

You think people like Epicenter?  I think its just like ocean, WG puts in because they want some variety, regardless of players actually liking it.

21 minutes ago, eviltane said:

I kinda enjoy Ocean when it does come around. 

That's reasonable to me, and I don't really have any issue with opinions like yours.  Its the people that hold forth about only real man can handle ocean, and the loudmouthed crybabies ruined it for us tough guys, that I have issue with.

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12 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

And apparently terrible with objective reality. :Smile-_tongue:  That's a joke, please don't be offended.

Lol, no offense taken mate... cuz I'm reality! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

13 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

You think people like Epicenter?  I think its just like ocean, WG puts in because they want some variety, regardless of players actually liking it.

In a thread not so long ago, a lot of guys were swearing Epicenter was the best next thing after cold beer... and at least from my experience Epicenter rotates a lot more than Ocean... I would be happy if at least Ocean was present as much as Epicenter.

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12 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

Ocean mostly separates the players with ships that can fight in open water and those that aren't balance for that.  And imagine WG giving in to overwhelming negative feedback, they have some nerve.

I'd love to see all the people that claim to like ocean be forced to play it over and over again, in ships that aren't balanced to fight in open water.  Yes, we all know, you guys are awesome and you won't have any trouble with that. :Smile_smile:

When Ocean map was in regular rotation I was a heavy DD player. It taught me plenty of things on how to play DD especially in the CV RTS days of having fighter squadrons that can perma spot you most of the match.

Ocean map requires a lot of thinking and adjustments because you're exposed the whole match. If you can't adjust your gameplay to the map, being bottom tier, etc. you're always going to complain regardless because you have limited yourself to one play style that won't work in all scenarios. Unfortunately this defines much of the player base then and now.

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