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kgh52

Two Brothers map should be removed from coop battles

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For random battles two brothers is fine, no issues. But coops is a different situation. I seen as many a 7 bots charge down the center channel. This funnels the red team into the wait guns & torpedoes of 3 maybe 4 of the green team. The other 5 or 6 players have little chance of breaking even.

I've been on both sides of the coin, MM has given me a starting position where I can charge to the mouth of the channel & have a turkey shoot. I've also started on the west or east sides and had only a single ship tha 2 other were firing, Certainly not an entertaining battle.

I ask for the removal because this would be very simple for WG to do. Yes, improving the AI would be the best option for the players.

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7 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

For random battles two brothers is fine, no issues. But coops is a different situation. I seen as many a 7 bots charge down the center channel. This funnels the red team into the wait guns & torpedoes of 3 maybe 4 of the green team. The other 5 or 6 players have little chance of breaking even.

I've been on both sides of the coin, MM has given me a starting position where I can charge to the mouth of the channel & have a turkey shoot. I've also started on the west or east sides and had only a single ship tha 2 other were firing, Certainly not an entertaining battle.

I ask for the removal because this would be very simple for WG to do. Yes, improving the AI would be the best option for the players.

Recently the only time I've seen the lemming train go through the strait is when all of the DDs are sitting at the far end.  If the destroyers deploy equally to the left, right, and center then the bots will divide themselves similarly. 

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The times I see this it is in one destroyer games.  If the DD is central and goes middle (and if it is a bot, it always goes middle), then the reds dogpile the slot.

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not really seen one through the middle.. But, you can have bad luck, and be on the far side with a slow boat. That's terrible. Might get a chance at a DD, or cruiser. But, I like the map. Alot.

Edited by iamSamoth
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I agree, either fix how the bots target your team (so they don't all beeline for the DD through the middle) or your team's middle spawn bots beeline through the channel for that opposite cap, or pull it from the co-op rotation. 

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In a standard battle, you'll get from 3 to 5 bots through the channel. This is because the bots play the objectives, thus some to most see the channel as the shortest route to the objective. The way for humans on the 'outer wings' of the map to get any kills is to start shooting almost immediately and try to distract the bot programming to go after a threat.

In domination battle, you'll get 2 to 3 bots through the channel. This is because the bots play the objectives, thus the bots on the 'outer wings' of the map will attempt to secure the outer two objectives. Again, the humans also on the 'outer wings' of the map can start firing early to alert bot programming to threat and perhaps garner an extra target or two.

Knowing the bots' programmed behavior should assist in getting kills. I've played MANY co-op matches and chuckle as I see humans (particularly in standard battle mode) flair out in a usual flanking maneuver, and I know that they'll get almost nothing out of that match. It's not a problem with the map or the bots, but with the humans not correctly assessing and reacting to the environment they're in (bots playing objectives, not trying to 'out think' the humans).

BTW: If I'm in a DD my first choice is to wait concealed at the channel mouth and torp the hapless bots as they appear. Few others do this, choosing rather to charge the slot and trade themselves one-for-one with the bot DD. Silly.

In co-op: NEVER FLAIR attempting to flank. To flair is to fail.

Edited by theLaalaa
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18 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

Recently the only time I've seen the lemming train go through the strait is when all of the DDs are sitting at the far end.  If the destroyers deploy equally to the left, right, and center then the bots will divide themselves similarly. 

Coop mains know how to trigger this bot reaction. Not only do DD's but cruisers & BB's as well, head for the slot.

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In domination battle, you'll get 2 to 3 bots through the channel. This is because the bots play the objectives, thus the bots on the 'outer wings' of the map will attempt to secure the outer two objectives.

This may have been true at one time but I seen bots do the lemming train down the slot as often in domination battles as I do in standard battles.

 

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Been asking for years in my semi-annual posts on how to improve Coop. It's a simple, obvious move that would increase game enjoyability and usefulness.



 

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5 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

Coop mains know how to trigger this bot reaction. Not only do DD's but cruisers & BB's as well, head for the slot.

This may have been true at one time but I seen bots do the lemming train down the slot as often in domination battles as I do in standard battles.

 

I haven't seen destroyers converging on the slot to "force" a lemming train.  Whenever I'm in a destroyer I purposely try to avoid other destroyers to prevent the reds converging to one spot.

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25 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

In domination battle, you'll get 2 to 3 bots through the channel. This is because the bots play the objectives, thus the bots on the 'outer wings' of the map will attempt to secure the outer two objectives.

19 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

This may have been true at one time but I seen bots do the lemming train down the slot as often in domination battles as I do in standard battles.

Not sure what you use as a time measure in your "at one time" condition, but my experience holds to the present, as the last two months of game-play show...

TwoBrother-2Months.thumb.jpg.ef65744c9c31bc7ced8d903658fac6fb.jpg

...both for standard and domination:

 

 

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Yes, it is my least favorite co op map.  The AI is stupid which has the profound effect of making players stupid by lemming to the channel mouth.  I chuckle to myself how many mouth huggers end up dead, how hard can it be?  I’ll never find out because I’m not going to stoop to that level of knuckle dragging.

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A DD going down the center can trigger the bots to go up the middle as they tend to go after the lowest HP ship spotted. 

I  lost a CoOp match there tonight. I guess a third to half my team where bots. All I know was while I was trying to get torp hits on a BB with a green bot on my side everyone else died with just me against two BBs and a CA with no caps and a BB between me and the closest cap. Game ended before I could do much.

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Usually a pretty decent split in Co-op on 2B.

Most of the time just a bot DD, maybe a cruiser, and a bit later maybe a BB.

Think I have seen it, but can’t remember the last time the bots mobbed the channel.

Think it tends to happen when 2B is Standard? Bots are all; ‘It iz da cap; must go middliz.’

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1 hour ago, Fifi_Macaffee said:

Yup this and shatter. Awful for coop. You have to get pretty lucky to get anything to shoot. 

Shatter is even worse because of that utterly idiotic island in the middle of C. Both Randoms and Coop matches are stupidly repetitive. Because one whole side of the map is completely blocked. Stupid beyond belief.

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And it's just that much worse when your ship is slow. There's just no good move for such a BB on that map. Start on a flank? Better hope bots go that way! Start in the middle? Either you have to force yourself down mid or suffer horribly.

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4 hours ago, kgh52 said:

For random battles two brothers is fine, no issues. But coops is a different situation. I seen as many a 7 bots charge down the center channel. This funnels the red team into the wait guns & torpedoes of 3 maybe 4 of the green team. The other 5 or 6 players have little chance of breaking even.

I've been on both sides of the coin, MM has given me a starting position where I can charge to the mouth of the channel & have a turkey shoot. I've also started on the west or east sides and had only a single ship tha 2 other were firing, Certainly not an entertaining battle.

I ask for the removal because this would be very simple for WG to do. Yes, improving the AI would be the best option for the players.

two brothers from co op, I always go down the middle

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8 hours ago, Fifi_Macaffee said:

Yup this and shatter. Awful for coop. You have to get pretty lucky to get anything to shoot. 

Agreed tho I probably dislike Shatter more than Two Brothers.

Both maps should be pulled from co-op rotation.

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5 hours ago, lordholland4293 said:

two brothers from co op, I always go down the middle

Fine in a DD or a cruiser with torps. Tough go in a fat BB or heavy cruiser. 

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7 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Nothing ruins a battle on this map faster than someone yoloing up the slot.

Yep, I agree, I hate that, and it's usually a dd that dies mid slot, meanwhile all the bots start down the channel, and of course get all jammed up in there,
The BB's get no damage as the quicker ships move in and kill everything.
This map is trash for co-op, needs to go.

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