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Shannon_Lindsey

A different take on German DDs

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One of my clan mates asked me an unusual question earlier today. What would I suggest for a captain build on a destroyer or cruiser that specialized in spotting torpedoes to help the team? Basically, he was asking for a picket destroyer. I realized this could be good for a competitive mode, so I spent some thought on it, and it kind of came together. German destroyers have been struggling with identity for a while. The British destroyers have more smoke charges, making them better at sitting on caps. The Russians, French, and Japanese gunboats have better guns. The smoke is the absolute worst in the game. And the Japanese torpedo boats and Europeans have much better torpedoes. However, the Germans do have the best Hydro range, and the special Jutland commanders have improved vigilance. So I cooked up this little strategy. I use my German DD to undermine enemy DDs attempts to kill my allies while I provide vision and smoke for them, and I take opportunistic shots with my guns when able. My first test worked brilliantly as I was able to keep the enemy from landing any torpedo hits on my end of the map, even to the point an enemy DD was complaining in chat about it. I would like a critique of this setup to see if it has merit. The theoretical 19 point build is: Priority Target, Last Stand, Vigilance, Concealment Expert, Radio Location, Jack of All Trades, and Superintendent

I only have 14 points on my Franz von Jutland so far, so it's not finished, but this is what I am currently testing:

57871364_FvJCaptainbuild.thumb.jpg.409472976dbf86a6c062d8ee765eacd6.jpg

I hate giving up adrenaline rush, but I think for being a better team player, giving it up is necessary to boost the hydro reload and to give the additional detection abilities of radio location. Thank you for any thoughts on this.

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey
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Great idea.  I agree that spotting torps is one of the most under rated duties of a DD.  Lately I've been screening my own forces, and spotting torps.  My usual terrible dd win % has risen considerable.

Well done sir.

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Perhaps going without AR won’t be so bad on a DD. A percentage of a small number is a small number. AR would have a much larger benefit to slow-firing BBs and CAs. Good idea

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50 minutes ago, USSCurtis said:

Perhaps going without AR won’t be so bad on a DD. A percentage of a small number is a small number. AR would have a much larger benefit to slow-firing BBs and CAs. Good idea

Well AR have more value when you can risk to play at lower health thanks to heal. For a DD, sure it's nice to have reload boost when you have 10% life, but 2k life is nothing and at that point your are but  a glorified torpedo boat.

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7 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

he was asking for a picket destroyer.

Unique innovation; how does it pay you? (I know WG isn't rewarding any XP for torpedo spotting; they should but they don't.)

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20 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Unique innovation; how does it pay you? (I know WG isn't rewarding any XP for torpedo spotting; they should but they don't.)

Well, it would be good for clan and ranked, although you'd have to let your team know what you're up to in chat in ranked for them to take full advantage of it.  Also, if you are playing a Z-52 and hanging back a bit closer to your team, the AA is good enough that you can jump in and combine it with that of a friendly cruiser or BB and really help wreck carrier squadrons.

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10 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Well, it would be good for clan and ranked, although you'd have to let your team know what you're up to in chat in ranked for them to take full advantage of it.

I like this optimism, but in practice, Ranked teammates are too inconsistent for information like this to have much value. People eat spotted torpedoes all the time there.

And in Clan Battles, depending on the level play, there are diminishing returns again. Top level teams throw torpedoes out with the expectation that they'll be spotted and dodged. Their real use is forcing a target to dodge hem, which dislodges a ship from a strong position or makes it show a vulnerable angle to a different ally. In those cases, spotting the torpedoes doesn't change much.

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39 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Well, it would be good for clan and ranked, although you'd have to let your team know what you're up to in chat in ranked for them to take full advantage of it.  Also, if you are playing a Z-52 and hanging back a bit closer to your team, the AA is good enough that you can jump in and combine it with that of a friendly cruiser or BB and really help wreck carrier squadrons.

All that is true, but high tier matches come with a high tier price tag and I'm wondering how you (everyone) plan to play this ship to pay the costs of battle. Or do you just plan to lose money every match? (Nothing wrong with that, many high tier players do plan not to come out ahead when playing tiers 9 or 10.)

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Honestly, British DDs are probably the best for this duty. The difference in torpedo detection between RN DD and KM DD radar is not that big, and 3km detection is more than adequate for screening purposes. Plus it lasts much longer.

Where KM DDs shine is in using Hydro to spot other ships at up to 6km out.

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Interesting idea, makes for a different kind of gameplay. I've been tempted to take Vigilance as I've really not much faith in AR. Might as well give this role a try. Cool post OP +1

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The problem is that your not rewarded for spotting torps which is one of the reasons why DDs often tend not to act as a screen in this game.   I think it would be vary hard to convince any DD player to invest points into doing something they weren't rewarded for especially since there are never enough captain skill points available anyway.

Also, and this goes back to a topic I wrote on a few weeks ago, the fact that you can't easily respec captains for specific roles without resorting to extremely costly methods either in real life cash or time, your never really going to have many captains that are specialized for a specific task based on the game mode.  I mean what you have mentioned is a great idea, something else for the DD to do and I can see where in a competitive mode it might be useful but if you can't change your build at will to accommodate switching back and forth between playing say Randoms and this Competitive mode, most captains will have a skill build that works for the mode that they play the most rather than a specialize build that just works in say Competitive mode.

WG's captain skills are just very poorly implemented BECAUSE WG'ing monetized captain skill builds and Profit is greater than what is best for gameplay. 

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The picket DD role is inferior to other roles. You are assuming your team will make use of your extra info, which doesn’t happen far too often. Better to invest in a skill that you know you can take advantage of, rather than hoping your allies aren’t blind.
 

In a competitive mode, you don’t take torp spotting for your team, but rather to make sure your own DD doesn’t get torped. 
 

if you want to be a team player, carry that team. 

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10 hours ago, USSCurtis said:

Perhaps going without AR won’t be so bad on a DD. A percentage of a small number is a small number. AR would have a much larger benefit to slow-firing BBs and CAs. Good idea

This is a misconception. Going from 5 second reload to 4.5 second reload is the same DPM buff as going from 30 to 27 seconds, even though one is 0.5 s and one is 3.

Percentage based reload buffs are often even better on guns with fast reload, since you're probably going to shoot again as soon as you reload. In a BB with 30 second reload you might wait a few extra seconds to get a broadside, and if you do that the 3 second reload buff doesn't help at all.

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