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barbaroja_Ar

AA Build

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Just wondering.

Is still there a thing like AA build?

If so, which ships deserve an AA build captain?

No reason to do so in an Arkansas Beta.

Not ranting but just got erased in my GK by a really good CV captain. I dodged as much as I could, downed quite a number of planes. After battle I was revising my captain to see what specs would make sense to improve AA.

I feel that those points I can use to improve a bad AA to a mediocre one are better used to enhance the strength of the ship.

 Am I wrong?

So I understand that Minotaur, Worcester,  DM are good candidates. What other ships? 

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No BB by itself can defend itself from air attack by a competent CV player.

This sail alone issue plagued the game early on and CV players would see it and the choice was easy, attack the lone BB that has no AA support.

Since rework, the issue did manifest again only this time, CV players figured out how to navigate the AA flak and attack a lone BB. While it may cost It works great. I charged it first, then used it on my shoulders. The lower back was also the other spot I used it on. a few planes from that inital squadron, a typical lone BB will indeed sink.

Battleships by and large should focus on the ship's offensive strengths and if the AA defense is already fairly good to begin with, then make sure you sail in a fight with AA cruiser support.

Even a lone cruiser gets sunk by the way. It's when you form up together in groups of two or more that this starts to become problematic for a CV player and they typically pick easier targets first or spot you to weaken the task force.

It is at this point that you sector priority, but focus on the push task at hand, return fire to hostile gunfire and hope your unit is able to get the objective before the CV has their hand forced.

With just a few attempts, a typical CV can take on losses and if they focus on your force too long they will not be effective elsewhere on the map.

By forcing a CV to make tough choices, it becomes the best strategy to counter them. 

But countering requires effort, coordination, and execution. Team tactics have been largely successful in games against CVs, but only if the rest of the team capitalizes on the situation.

Most AA cruisers try to keep some balance to their builds to add flexibility. Cruisers have to adapt quickly to change in battle.

Work on enhancement of survival by reducing fire on your BB and work with a team by practicing as a division to become more cohesive. Practice in particular, the sector priority incoming should face enemy if closest to planes opposite side should face opposite to pick off his overflights, and the centermost ship leave as is for the bombers flying back to CV because they will either be overhead or either side.

This maximizes DPM in 2 layers on either side and vertical up 2 layers. This is most effective on CV strikes that dumped planes and only have two strikes to begin with. Or even one. It means the one pays dearly, the second won't ever get a second chance.

And if they attack with a full strike, then it will be catastrophic.

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As things are now, I prefer to go for a general tank build than specific AA build, if you go against a competent CV player, the AA won't save you but tanking the damage better might buy you time.

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

No BB ship by itself can defend itself from air attack by a competent CV player.

OK. Maybe a CV can.

Edited by chewonit

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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

As things are now, I prefer to go for a general tank build than specific AA build, if you go against a competent CV player, the AA won't save you but tanking the damage better might buy you time.

Take this mans advice it is very sound. 

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Just now, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

A Midway torpedo drop can be fatal if done twice.

Thus "maybe".

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26 minutes ago, chewonit said:

OK. Maybe a CV can.

i think theres a FEW no fly ships still in the game if you fully AA spec, but only a few. The ones that come to my mind are Halland, Minotaur and smolensk. With these ships you basically need to be a unicum player to take them down if they are being played properly. I'm sure theres a couple other no fly ships but i can't think of them at this time of day.

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Continuous damage is trash and flak explosions are worth something.....and these can be avoided completely. So, no. There is no point in AA in this game.

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38 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

As things are now, I prefer to go for a general tank build than specific AA build, if you go against a competent CV player, the AA won't save you but tanking the damage better might buy you time.

Currently using all damage / fire mitigation skills on it

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26 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

A Midway torpedo drop can be fatal if done twice.

It was a Midway, and I was within 8 kms of other ships, even hiding one flank with an island o so I can focus my AA on the other side so he was not able to attack my lower AA side.

He was a good player, forced me to dodge the first torp salvo and be exposed on the second and third.

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Aside from the case, what ships are worth an AA investment?

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2 hours ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Is still there a thing like AA build?

Yes, there is an AA build. For it you need to take AA Guns Mod 1 in slot 3, Aux Arm Mod 2 in slot 6 as well as BFT & AFT in captain skills.
And with that, congratulations! You have just wasted 2 upgrade slots and 7 captain points.

This is because whether you have an AA build or not makes a negligible to no difference assuming the CV player has achieved basic competence. This has been proven mathematically, in tests in controlled environments as well as in practice in both randoms and clan battles.
If the CV player doesn't have achieved basic competence then he will fail regardless of whether you have an AA build or not.

As the most damaging factor of AA is flak which can be 100% avoided with absolutely no input on your part while DPS is pathetic in strength across the board how many planes the enemy CV loses is completely out of your control.

 

7 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Aside from the case, what ships are worth an AA investment?

None for AA specifically.
(So far.)

Because plane losses are completely out of your control as already explained it is actually better to build around tankiness unless you want to go for secondaries or you otherwise benefit from the specific skills/upgrades. This allows you to both sustain more damage from surface ships as well as survive longer against air strikes, giving you better performance in both areas.

The only consideration you should make is whether to take the catapult fighter or not which is by far the best AA consumable out there, for effective usage you need to learn which squads you should use it on as well as the individual timings though. It CAN be worthwhile to take Direction Center if you do take the catapult fighter with you as it is only a single point spent and does improve performance a little.

Edited by El2aZeR
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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

The only consideration you should make is whether to take the catapult fighter or not which is by far the best AA consumable out there, for effective usage you need to learn which squads you should use it on as well as the individual timings though. It CAN be worthwhile to take Direction Center if you do take the catapult fighter with you as it is only a single point spent and does improve performance a little.

TY for the info. Where can I learn about the highlighted part, or at least get some hints... other than through experience?

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1 hour ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

It was a Midway, and I was within 8 kms of other ships, even hiding one flank with an island o so I can focus my AA on the other side so he was not able to attack my lower AA side.

He was a good player, forced me to dodge the first torp salvo and be exposed on the second and third.

Midway torps are very slow and short ranged. The CV player has to lead and drop really close, but your counter is to turn in, straighten out and prepare to snap the rudder opposite direction.

Since you are next to an island, they can only hit one side. So pop the speed to half 1second, turn in to the drop, straighten out and since you are still next to island, you repeat this again.

What happens is their torps fail to arm because you closed the gap of the release. The tight turn from suddenly shifting the speed turns the ship really tight. The act of dropping the speed briefly to half then full actually makes the ship drop down to nearly 33% of it's rated Max speed. This also makes your turn radius very short and induces a very tight turn.

But the act of straightening out immediately at full speed is to keep the island close so he can't hit the other side. The CV is forced to attack from original side repeatedly, but again, you see him drop and control the situation with turning in his drop. 

If they are good, they get 1-2 total in the strike anyway, but hardly enough to sink you. And the process wipes out 3 sets of planes because you sector priority that side.

Now mind you that this trick only works when no enemy DDs are around. But keeping an island on one side takes away an attack angle.

Typical drops by CVs are the fade that starts near the rear of the ship. Counter with the trick. Across drop, this one is tricky because he may not know your ship speed and miss two initially anyway. Same trick works.

The offset lead. This one is used by crazy players like myself, but it's low percentage shot unless I guess your turn. If you see they drop ahead of you either on your 10 or 2 o'clock then this is the offset. It's designed to induce you to sail straight typically, but can make you try to do the trick and you sail into his torps when he reads your turn.

However, if you recognize it you just sail straight and gradually turn in to the drop and he might miss a lot.

Most CVs try for your bow ends to induce flooding and hit center if they want to get the engine. By slowing you down, it's easier to bomb drop.

To counter bomb drops you just pick a direction to do a full circle turn but make sure you are not wide to anyone when doing the turn. As pertains to bomb drops, if alone, don't set priority, just execute the circle turns in and out to make it hard for the CV player. 

Very few players can cross drop bombs because of serious timing. But 70% miss because of turning in a circle. 

Preferably, a CV wants to drop bombs from the 6 or 12 o'clock position. Sail straight and they get it in. Park and you are just making it easy for them.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

While I may be giving away precious information, it still has to be executed correctly. So no CV Mafia will come by my house and rub me out.😏😅

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31 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

TY for the info. Where can I learn about the highlighted part, or at least get some hints... other than through experience?

This is good, Hints?

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26 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

While I may be giving away precious information, it still has to be executed correctly. So no CV Mafia will come by my house and rub me out.😏😅

IDK man, it is up to the "enforcer of the CV mafia" @thebigblue to take the call on you... just in case, have some oil at hand for the rubbing :Smile_trollface:

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16 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

IDK man, it is up to the "enforcer of the CV mafia" @thebigblue to take the call on you... just in case, have some oil at hand for the rubbing :Smile_trollface:

I never heard of the player. Seriously, never heard of them.

I usually use coconut oil on my self. Duane Johnson recommended that.

I am not worried.  

Nobody goes after a fella like me unless I am more than meets the eye 👀.

And you have to be one heck of a special player to boot 👟👠📖. "Red Shoe Diaries" anyone?😏😎

 

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4 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

📖. "Red Shoe Diaries" anyone?😏😎

 

Yeah man, Salman King movies sweetened my teen years. 

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1 minute ago, ArIskandir said:

Yeah man, Salman King movies sweetened my teen years. 

You two are not the average WoWs player. ROFL

:Smile_trollface:

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37 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

IDK man, it is up to the "enforcer of the CV mafia" @thebigblue to take the call on you... just in case, have some oil at hand for the rubbing :Smile_trollface:

Lol at "enforcer" title. Sounds kinda cool but I'm a peaceful G who dislikes fabricated crisis thinks the hazing of a certain ship type or it's players is dispicable and childish.

I'm pretty sure he was worried about visitors delivering a message rather than  a massage. Lol.

Edited by thebigblue

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Midway torps are very slow and short ranged. The CV player has to lead and drop really close, but your counter is to turn in, straighten out and prepare to snap the rudder opposite direction.

Since you are next to an island, they can only hit one side. So pop the speed to half 1second, turn in to the drop, straighten out and since you are still next to island, you repeat this again.

What happens is their torps fail to arm because you closed the gap of the release. The tight turn from suddenly shifting the speed turns the ship really tight. The act of dropping the speed briefly to half then full actually makes the ship drop down to nearly 33% of it's rated Max speed. This also makes your turn radius very short and induces a very tight turn.

But the act of straightening out immediately at full speed is to keep the island close so he can't hit the other side. The CV is forced to attack from original side repeatedly, but again, you see him drop and control the situation with turning in his drop. 

If they are good, they get 1-2 total in the strike anyway, but hardly enough to sink you. And the process wipes out 3 sets of planes because you sector priority that side.

Now mind you that this trick only works when no enemy DDs are around. But keeping an island on one side takes away an attack angle.

Typical drops by CVs are the fade that starts near the rear of the ship. Counter with the trick. Across drop, this one is tricky because he may not know your ship speed and miss two initially anyway. Same trick works.

The offset lead. This one is used by crazy players like myself, but it's low percentage shot unless I guess your turn. If you see they drop ahead of you either on your 10 or 2 o'clock then this is the offset. It's designed to induce you to sail straight typically, but can make you try to do the trick and you sail into his torps when he reads your turn.

However, if you recognize it you just sail straight and gradually turn in to the drop and he might miss a lot.

Most CVs try for your bow ends to induce flooding and hit center if they want to get the engine. By slowing you down, it's easier to bomb drop.

To counter bomb drops you just pick a direction to do a full circle turn but make sure you are not wide to anyone when doing the turn. As pertains to bomb drops, if alone, don't set priority, just execute the circle turns in and out to make it hard for the CV player. 

Very few players can cross drop bombs because of serious timing. But 70% miss because of turning in a circle. 

Preferably, a CV wants to drop bombs from the 6 or 12 o'clock position. Sail straight and they get it in. Park and you are just making it easy for them.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

While I may be giving away precious information, it still has to be executed correctly. So no CV Mafia will come by my house and rub me out.😏😅

Good advice. Currently Enterprise and FDR are the two carriers I get the least excited about seeing on the enemy team. I wonder how well these tips would work with their aircraft... Are they very much slower? Are there torpedo spread that different?

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3 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

I'm pretty sure he was worried about visitors delivering a message rather than  a massage. Lol.

Oh, man I would be very glad about visitors (female visitors to be specific) delivering a massage, with oil and stuff... :Smile_trollface: 

9 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

You two are not the average WoWs player. ROFL

:Smile_trollface:

hey mate, a good laugh a day keeps the salt away... Doctors recommend it. 

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5 hours ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Is still there a thing like AA build?

Not really, unless you consider choosing DFAA and grabbing BFT to be one.

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53 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Good advice. Currently Enterprise and FDR are the two carriers I get the least excited about seeing on the enemy team. I wonder how well these tips would work with their aircraft... Are they very much slower? Are there torpedo spread that different?

IDK about FDR, but Enterprise has a slightly different torpedo spread, but should work. As for the bombs, even in a turn, because of the dispersion being sporadic, I would say that a turn would help mitigate but it, but a player that knows how to work the inertia would spread the bombs in the turn.

Enterprise has a unique drop pattern. It's purposely staggered to miss a ship sailing straight, but oddly more accurate if the player predicted the turn.

So, having said that, if you know the player hits ships consistently in turns, then they are dangerous. In that case a simple full reverse as they line up then pop forward would give them fits.

Because if they don't save the boost to hold the reticle in a brake maneuver, they will miss.

I typically use brakes to hold it over a wiggly target. A player is only making it easy for me if they are slow, straight, or sit still.

If I had doubloons for every parked ship I hit with bombs in Randoms, I could buy out all my FXP.

The best thing any player can do is always move fast and turn sharp when bombs are coming. 

It used to be Russian cruisers would slam the brakes or accelerate under a bomb drop, but applied brakes fixes that and even cancels out desync or any latency issues. That is why it's way better to improve the rudder.

Evasive action has always worked against bombs.  And knowing your opponent's torpedoes arming distance is your best defense when turning into a drop. 

It can be as simple as controlling the situation of the area they are most likely to start a run, watching their distance and just snap that rudder hard in if they begin a run near the arming distance. It never hurts to bait it if you open wide then snap in because some players presume you are committed to that turn and they never expect you to  snap back in so fast. 

Now if you occasionally CV, you pick up on the nuances by torp dropping DDs to hone the skill, but to hone it in a BB, you will have to get CV player to go practice room and you have them cut loose with emphasis on on the 3 most common drops.

Any ship is capable of countering, it's just few practice by having a CV player spar with you in the training room.

I hope this is insightful and maybe one of your clan mates will help you with this. 

It's not like CV players feel better sharing these tips, but it makes their game play more interesting if the opponent is a worthy adversary.

The biggest issue is that players take for granted that team work does work. And practice only makes you sharp for the next battle. 

Good luck <o

.

 

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