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Ghorg38

Tier X coal ships to buy : Moksva/Salem/Marceau

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hi!

I have just the right amount of coal to buy my next tier X coal ship. I am hesitating between Moksva, Salem and Marceau?

I have already got Zao and Thunderer which I really enjoyed. Thus I first thought to buy a DD to get one ships of every kind (Cruiser, BB and DD) :) However the comments are mixed. So I am not sure anymore... :cap_hmm: From what i know Yoshino is a BB version of the Zao. At the same time Salem is said to be like a Desmoines and Marceau is like a Kléber. Is Moksva a better choice? Should I wait until next month for new ships to come out?

Any advice is welcome! I am lost! :cap_look:

 

 

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The only one that I don't have is Marceau, I do more Moskva battles than Salem however. I might wait for another coal ship rather than get Marceau.

image.thumb.png.5971358b6a09d0ff2e348361b33eaebc.png

Perfect place for a Mime Meme.

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Did Zao get the Moskva treatment & become a coal ship?

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2 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Did Zao get the Moskva treatment & become a coal ship?

No, he's probably stating he has a Zao to show that he already has a T10 cruiser and battleship

 

As for the OP, it's really a toss up between Moskva and Marceau, since Salem is very similar to Des Moines

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Salem is kind of junky, honestly. The novelty of her improved heal is offset by the fact that Des Moines is just a stronger and more soundly composed package. I’d certainly recommend Moskva over her. 

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19 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Salem is kind of junky, honestly. The novelty of her improved heal is offset by the fact that Des Moines is just a stronger and more soundly composed package. I’d certainly recommend Moskva over her. 

Salem’s improved heal is often offset by the fact that she surrenders up chunks  of her health too big and too fast for the heal to do anything about.

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30 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Salem is kind of junky, honestly. The novelty of her improved heal is offset by the fact that Des Moines is just a stronger and more soundly composed package. I’d certainly recommend Moskva over her. 

What do you mean the DM is a stronger, more soundly composed package? Other than Salem getting a better heal, and the DM getting a longer range radar, they are basically the same (with some minor things like DM having close range AA, etc.).

 

As for the OP, I would say none. Unfortunately t10 games are kind of in the dumps right now, spending that coal on t9s not only makes you much more credits in the long run, but the t9 ships are top of the line, fantastic ships.

 

BUT, if you must have one, then probably the moskva. Her longer range allows you to sit back with the rest of your team sniping at max range.

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theres very little reason to play Moskva these days, especially with the prevalence of petro, Stalin, Richthofen which just [edited] on you so hard.

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Moskva has taken a big hit with the nerf of it's legendary module.

Any of the T10 Russian tech tree cruisers is better.

Salem is just a worse des moines, you'll never get that heal to work as most damage you take is not fire damage, but pen and citadels.

Marceau is not bad however right now Kleber is better. However, kleber will continue to be nerfed while marceau will remain what it is. If you like Kleber, Marceau is sort of a nerf proof Kleber. 

Edited by Cit_the_bed

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Of the three you mentioned the only one I have is Salem. I don't do particularly well in her, but shes a fun ship. 

Her biggest benefit is the economic one. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can say that she turns a profit even on a poor performance. Hell, she turns a profit in co-op, though not a huge one.

Personally I'm holding on to my coal until the Flint and Black make their returns to the shop.

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8 hours ago, Ghorg38 said:

I am hesitating between Moksva, Salem and Marceau?

Moskva and Salem are safe choices, because Salem is a modified Des Moines and Moskva was the USSR T10 tech-tree cruiser until recently; the capabilities of both are well known, and there's plenty out there on YT to teach you how to play them. Marceau is a different kettle of fish, and although I normally grab eagerly at any interesting new coal ships that are released, I was shy about this one because I don't do well in French destroyers. 

19 minutes ago, dechion said:

Personally I'm holding on to my coal until the Flint and Black make their returns to the shop.

Neustrashimy is also coming back; an odd duck, but one that rewards a good captain.

19 minutes ago, dechion said:

Her biggest benefit is the economic one. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can say that she turns a profit even on a poor performance. Hell, she turns a profit in co-op, though not a huge one.

It's enough that I spammed the hell out of her in co-op when I first got her in Christmas 2018, and she has the most XP on her of any of my premiums because of that.

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IIRC there is another reason for Salem... does she not get a better than average return on play? Discounted cost or something? More than other ships of her tier/class? 

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20 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

IIRC there is another reason for Salem... does she not get a better than average return on play? Discounted cost or something? More than other ships of her tier/class? 

Her repair costs are significantly less than others. 

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7 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

IIRC there is another reason for Salem... does she not get a better than average return on play? Discounted cost or something? More than other ships of her tier/class? 

 

6 hours ago, dechion said:

Her repair costs are significantly less than others. 

I do believe Moskva gets the same thing.

The "special" premiums are the T10s.

Premiums get a modifier to credits & XP that vary based on performance in battle.

Not sure about the special ships XP modifiers (if they are the same as regular premiums or if they even get 1) but instead of a battle dependant credit modifier they get a 50% post battle cost reduction built in (taking the usual 180k down to 90k) & then they get a T10 camo that also gives them another 50% post battle cost reduction (taking the 90k down to 45k).

I do believe that is standard for all T10 coal ships from the armory.

13 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

What do you mean the DM is a stronger, more soundly composed package? Other than Salem getting a better heal, and the DM getting a longer range radar, they are basically the same (with some minor things like DM having close range AA, etc.).

Salem gives up radar for hydro...DM gives up DFAA for hydro.

Salem gets DFAA seperate (w/out the close range AA as you mentioned) & DM gets radar (w/the longer range as you mentioned) separate.

Longer range radar that doesn't require an option is what he means by  more "soundly packaged" I do believe.

14 hours ago, PotatoMD said:

No, he's probably stating he has a Zao to show that he already has a T10 cruiser and battleship

Thanx... don't know why that went over my head the 1st time :Smile_hiding:

16 hours ago, Ghorg38 said:

hi!

I have just the right amount of coal to buy my next tier X coal ship. I am hesitating between Moksva, Salem and Marceau?

I have already got Zao and Thunderer which I really enjoyed. Thus I first thought to buy a DD to get one ships of every kind (Cruiser, BB and DD) :) However the comments are mixed. So I am not sure anymore... :cap_hmm: From what i know Yoshino is a BB version of the Zao. At the same time Salem is said to be like a Desmoines and Marceau is like a Kléber. Is Moksva a better choice? Should I wait until next month for new ships to come out?

Any advice is welcome! I am lost! :cap_look:

 

 

I usually wait until I have enough for 2 ships before I get 1 so if 1 is announced to be pulled I don't miss out by just having spent it all on the 1 I got & not have enough time to get the 1 being pulled.

As for your choices it depends (& I'm not judging here...based on ship type both play styles are valid) on if you like long range camping or more of a run & gun play style.

Moskva is long range bow camping ideal as long as you don't let yourself get flanked.

Salem can angle for the bow camping but can also maneuver around quite well if you take rudder mod.

& The DD goes w/out saying...HIDE (jk)...give em hell.

There is no guarantee there will be a new ship announced in a month...there might but usually there's at least a couple or a few months (or longer) between.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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Well... I have the DM and the Salem.. Not sure why but I always, always choose the Salem. I swear to you though, she is most point and click ship in the entire game; get anywhere close to a valid aim and bam... she lands shells. 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well... I have the DM and the Salem.. Not sure why but I always, always choose the Salem. I swear to you though, she is most point and click ship in the entire game; get anywhere close to a valid aim and bam... she lands shells. 

I was consistently getting into the top 5% in the Hall of Fame contests by just spamming co-op games...I'd run it once in random for the better 1st win bonus...& any lines I was grinding in random for the 1st win bonuses every day...& then just spam co-op in Salem to get the top 5% (sometimes I'd only go for the top 10% if I had a busy work week but generally got to the 5% bracket on a regular work week).

Salem is a fun boat IMO... don't have camo for DM so didn't run it except snowflakes usually.

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8 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I was consistently getting into the top 5% in the Hall of Fame contests by just spamming co-op games...I'd run it once in random for the better 1st win bonus...& any lines I was grinding in random for the 1st win bonuses every day...& then just spam co-op in Salem to get the top 5% (sometimes I'd only go for the top 10% if I had a busy work week but generally got to the 5% bracket on a regular work week).

Salem is a fun boat IMO... don't have camo for DM so didn't run it except snowflakes usually.

I've actually had BB players type something like this in chat: "Salem? Please stop." 

So I did for about 20, 30 seconds... by that time the BB had almost burned down whereupon someone else finished them. She really IS that much fun! 

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11 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

Moskva has taken a big hit with the nerf of it's legendary module.

Any of the T10 Russian tech tree cruisers is better.

Salem is just a worse des moines, you'll never get that heal to work as most damage you take is not fire damage, but pen and citadels.

Marceau is not bad however right now Kleber is better. However, kleber will continue to be nerfed while marceau will remain what it is. If you like Kleber, Marceau is sort of a nerf proof Kleber. 

I'm pretty sure all of the T10 "premiums" are actually "special" ships and open to nerfing as they have never been sold for cash. So in theory Marceau could be nerfed if WG decided she was over performing. 

To the OP,

Salem is a safe bet if you play USN heavy cruisers, her RoF is deadly when ships get into your range and show too much of their side. 

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1 minute ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I've actually had BB players type something like this in chat: "Salem? Please stop." 

So I did for about 20, 30 seconds... by that time the BB had almost burned down whereupon someone else finished them. She really IS that much fun! 

I stop for 20-30 seconds while their DC cools down (-: well...stop is misleading...I keep firing...I just start setting somebody else on fire :-).

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16 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

I'm pretty sure all of the T10 "premiums" are actually "special" ships and open to nerfing as they have never been sold for cash. So in theory Marceau could be nerfed if WG decided she was over performing. 

To the OP,

Salem is a safe bet if you play USN heavy cruisers, her RoF is deadly when ships get into your range and show too much of their side. 

Actually it's the UUs that are all taking a hit as they are (Mosk only exception) tech tree only.

I do believe they made a point to change Moskva's UU while it was still a tech tree ship (I might be wrong about that but I think I got that right).

Not that they couldn't nerf the Moskva's after it was special...but just because they haven't done that to any of the specials yet I think they wanted to give the idea they don't intend to make it a standard thing...just an option if a new mechanic change leaves them over performing or some such.

Edit: The Smolensk armor changes were nicely tucked into the IFHE changes so not technically a direct nerf to the ship...especially as in some circumstances it resulted in more over pens for an actual buff.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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19 hours ago, Ghorg38 said:

hi!

I have just the right amount of coal to buy my next tier X coal ship. I am hesitating between Moksva, Salem and Marceau?

I have already got Zao and Thunderer which I really enjoyed. Thus I first thought to buy a DD to get one ships of every kind (Cruiser, BB and DD) :) However the comments are mixed. So I am not sure anymore... :cap_hmm: From what i know Yoshino is a BB version of the Zao. At the same time Salem is said to be like a Desmoines and Marceau is like a Kléber. Is Moksva a better choice? Should I wait until next month for new ships to come out?

Any advice is welcome! I am lost! :cap_look:

 

 

Salem IS Des Moines except it swaps DM's 10km radar for Atlanta's 7km or so version and gets a much better heal in return. The other differences are trivial. It is less team-friendly, but more survivable. 

Marceau is  Kleber, but it has Colbert's fast-firing DP guns with good AA instead of Kleber's sledgehammers and reload booster. It also has slightly weaker torpedoes. It mostly surrenders burst damage for better sustained damage and some actual AA (which is non-existent in the rest of the French DD line). 

Moskva is ... Moskva. It's a CA that plays like a small BB (or a BC). 

Which one you should get really depends on what you want to do with it. Personally I plan on getting Marceau, but I am just waiting for them to announce what currency FDR will require before I do. 

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22 hours ago, Ghorg38 said:

I am hesitating between Moksva, Salem and Marceau?

I like Moskva.  Stronk ship.  I haven't obtained and played Marceau (I'm not good in high tier DDs - yet).  Which doesn't matter because Salem is my favorite ship in the game. 

3 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

Salem IS Des Moines except it swaps DM's 10km radar for Atlanta's 7km or so

8.5km/40sec radar.  Which really matters only if you use her as a DD hunter -- not her major strength.  IMO, the loss of an organic air division is more significant.  I play Salem with Hydro sometimes - an option DM doesn't have.

Edited by iDuckman

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  So far, I have two of three out of that list:  Salem and Marceau.   

  Salem is one of my favorite cruisers- but I'm a huge fan of US cruisers, so... lol.   I probably play it too much- as DM's Legendary grind has suffered from serious neglect.   But, being a mostly Co-op guy- the economic benefit of Salem is almost too valuable to pass up.   Esp considering the state top tier games are in right now.

I don't notice any lesser performance, really.  yeah it has no 20mm AA- but the 76's and 127's have NO problem chewing up planes.  I spec for AA, mainly because it amuses me to shoot down planes.   And also because plane kills pay.     Radar is highly situational in most of the games I play,  and I've never noticed the range difference.   

Salem DOES do the thing we all love Des Moines for:  Machine gun out 8" shells like they're candy.    And the AP is just as wicked as it is on the other US CA's- which is why I use that most of the time.   I erased 2 Moskvas in about 5 salvos one game.   Go ahead- show me that broadside comrade!   I almost felt bad for doing it.  Almost.

AS for Marceau;  She's my first tier 10 DD- and I LIKE it!   French DD's are my other fanboy line,  and this one is just as good- and just as important:  just as fun to play as the rest.   Also very easy on the eyes, like a lot of the French ships.  Not a deciding factor, I know, but hey.   Semi floaty arcs don't really bother me- I also love US DD's, and CL's, so...   I'm used to that, lol.

  Moskva I've been looking at hard- as I, too, have a big pile of coal to spend.   So far, I haven't QUITE been able to pull the trigger on it.    One reason being that my Soviet cruiser captain list is a mess- most are in the  "the next few points are gonna take awhile" category.  And my best one is set up for CL's- IFHE and DE- and not for a CA like Moskva.  (I'm grinding the tier 8 atm)   BB captains are worse, as I've just begun that line, lol.

  It'll eventually end up going home with me- just depends on how many other coal ships WG puts out there that I want more.   Hopefully by then, I'll have a suitable commander for it.

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