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Sullen_Maximus

German CV line is trash, change my mind.

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I have been playing CV's since beta, and this line is complete garbage. I'll give my reasoning why

TLDR: The german CV line is great against potato/seal clubbing, but against competent players they're garbage.

AP rockets: these things would be nice, if they didn't require perfect 90 degree angles to apply. Now that most people understand them, any cruiser that sees your planes coming, even with concealment expert merely turn in either direction and negate 90% of your damage. This is amplified even more when under tiered where perfection is the only way to even get modest damage. Additionally, it's amazing how well mountains block these things. A single small island that makes your planes adjust elevation at all, can send rockets flying off into oblivion. Also amazing how the purely aesthetic smoke puffs on your attack run, completely block your view making precise attacks sometimes impossible to see.

AP bombs : yes you drop immediately, but the dispersion is horrendous. Numerous times I have dropped textbook perfect drops on BB's only to get 1-2 pens. wth is this? Do I need to start jerking the WG RNGesus off before every German CV battle? It's so common I basically expect it at this point. If under-tiered, you're totally boned. The top armor of ships 2 tiers higher are thick enough that your bombs rarely citadel, unless on a cruiser, but again, your dispersion is so bad it's highly likely to miss. Not to mention these "aircraft" might as well be a middle school kids paper mache project. You have to take minimum 6 planes in to attack even same tier ships to survive long enough to drop. Sure you get a heal, but the heal is a % of total hitpoints which is so low, it can't even keep your aircraft alive from the passive AA levels.

German CV Torps: Ah yes the "high speed" torpedo, which are might as well be peeps marshmallows hitting anything but a DD. They were funny at first when DD's didn't know to watch out for them, but now most DD players have caught on. Any DD player with half a brain cell can dodge the torp drop because the arming distance is pretty far away even at point blank. This wouldn't be as bad if you could turn the planes tight enough to cross fire ,but due to the arming distance, you have to fly away before coming back, which by that time, the DD has had more than enough time to dodge your first set of torps, setting up for your second. Sure you can increase the speed of the torps, but this only exacerbates the arming distance making the benefits nullified. The result is either dropping countless torps, hoping for a single hit, and if not, zero damage and a shitload of time wasted, or just ignoring DD's altogether. This single aspect has a massive negative affect on the battles as if you're up against any other nation's CV your team is already at a disadvantage. The enemy CV will keep your DD's in check, while you will be given the choice to either do no damage chasing DD's the whole game, or just ignoring them, leaving them to punish your friendly BB's.

This tree also suffers the worst from the flak "bugs" WGing has yet to fix with regards to flak mechanics. Invisible smoke clouds still happen occasionally which with this CV can literally wipe your entire squad instantly. With other CV's, you might have a chance to get out but with this tree, it usually kills everything. Additionally, WG'ing has stated that once in attack run, flak clouds are there for purely aesthetic purposes, for good reason. It's basically impossible to dodge them once you have started an attack, however they still occasionally "forget" this mechanic and will hit your planes. With this CV line, that means even in a full attack run, you might get double hit by flak while in attack only to lose every plane before they can even launch their ordinances. Even if they survive the flak, the passive AA will easily finish them before you can launch torps/rockets. Combined with all the problems already with damage application, it's completely possible to lose every plane you have and still barely break the 50k damage mark against experienced players.


The secondaries are the only redeeming quality but lets face it, if they're coming into play, you're probably already 7 shades of [edited] anyway, or just have some DD chasing you down who didn't know 10.6 km perfect accuracy secondaries on CV's are a thing.

The only tier these problems are the exception is the t10 CV, but one aspect of that which is completely broken is the effectiveness of the AP rockets against other CV's. I've seen 30k single attack strikes from them. Which is ridiculous considering the other CV's have no way to stop this. The ship isn't maneuverable enough to turn away from the rocket planes.  And the planes are so fast, even if they fly through fighter bubbles, the fighters can't catch them before getting their volley off. Most Richthofen captains know this, and will gladly go for the guaranteed damage from the CV, rather than attempting to attack other ships since they can eliminate fighter bubbles from the start.

In conclusion, this line is great if your playing against potatoes, against moronic players who have no situational awareness or concept of the game, sure you can rack up HUGE damage numbers, but against anyone who knows what they're doing, they're just going to laugh as you continue to throw child toys at their Phalanx CIWS gun.

Edited by Sullen_Maximus
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Can't play it like the other lines of CV...   Whole new animal.

You kill DDs with torps, attack cruisers and CVs with rockets, and the bombs only work on battleships and large cruisers.

It's an addition of variety to the game-play WOWS offers.  And if you say it's not like they were in real life....   Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!

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2 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Can't play it like the other lines of CV...   Whole new animal.

You kill DDs with torps, attack cruisers and CVs with rockets, and the bombs only work on battleships and large cruisers.

It's an addition of variety to the game-play WOWS offers.  And if you say it's not like they were in real life....   Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!

Are you a troll? I have nothing against changing up the gameplay. If they wanted to make this viable, the arm time needs to be cut in half for the torps, smoke "bugs" need to be fixed, the bomb dispersion needs to be about 25% smaller, and rocket ricochet angles need to be reduced. I have no problem with them changing the core design with making different planes attack different ships. I'm simply stating in the current state, it's crap.

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3 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Can't play it like the other lines of CV...   Whole new animal.

You kill DDs with torps, attack cruisers and CVs with rockets, and the bombs only work on battleships and large cruisers.

It's an addition of variety to the game-play WOWS offers.  And if you say it's not like they were in real life....   Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!

This and the skill floor is RTS level high. They are not for average or less players where the other CV lines are very accessible to them.

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

This and the skill floor is RTS level high. They are not for average or less players where the other CV lines are very accessible to them.

I would definitely not consider myself a average CV player. I love that you have derailed my argument that they should get rid of it. I never said that, just that in it's current state, it's crapagainst experienced players.

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7 minutes ago, Sullen_Maximus said:

I would definitely not consider myself a average CV player. I love that you have derailed my argument that they should get rid of it. I never said that, just that in it's current state, it's crapagainst experienced players.

I never said anything about your skill level and there is no way to access how good you are and they are doing alright from their performance stats over on WoWS Stats & numbers with the tier 4, tier 6 premium, tier 8, and tier 10 all having 52% or higher WR's while still doing decent in their other stats.

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5 minutes ago, Sullen_Maximus said:

I would definitely not consider myself a average CV player. I love that you have derailed my argument that they should get rid of it. I never said that, just that in it's current state, it's crapagainst experienced players.

I've been playing the tech-tree German CV's since getting the Rhein, via a crate + mission, during the early-access event.
Before the event the Graf Zeppelin was already in my port.
Now, I've played the GZ, the Rhein, the Erich Loewenhardt and the Weser.
Last night I welcomed the August Von Parseval to my port.  I'm looking forward to testing and evaluating her & her squadron's capabilities as I try to earn the credits and XP for the hull & plane upgrades.

The German CV's are a bit more challenging to play, than other nation's CV's.
The recent "global" nerf of all Armor-Piercing bombs didn't help matters.

The planning, set-up and approach to a target are crucial in getting the best performance from the German aerial ordnance.

If a player doesn't derive personal satisfaction from wringing damage from squadrons that demand specific & precise types of aerial strikes, then perhaps another nation's CV's can satisfy your preferences and play-style.
 

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It sounds like you're just trying to play it like any other line. My very first game in one ended with 15 citadel hits between rockets and DBs. I picked up pretty quickly that if you wait for the match to progress a little bit, you can give enemy cruisers time to settle in to their little hidey holes and that's the best time to bring the rockets out and slap them while they're parked. Bear in mind, I rarely play cvs. My highest one is implacable, and no premiums. I barely started on the us and ijn lines, and have no real desire to continue any of them. You can make any line work if you adjust your play accordingly. 

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2 hours ago, xTrowax said:

It sounds like you're just trying to play it like any other line. My very first game in one ended with 15 citadel hits between rockets and DBs. I picked up pretty quickly that if you wait for the match to progress a little bit, you can give enemy cruisers time to settle in to their little hidey holes and that's the best time to bring the rockets out and slap them while they're parked. Bear in mind, I rarely play cvs. My highest one is implacable, and no premiums. I barely started on the us and ijn lines, and have no real desire to continue any of them. You can make any line work if you adjust your play accordingly. 

Jesus [edited]christ, why would i play it like any other line?  I'm not, did you read the write up at all? And it's nothing like the implacable. The implacable has the tankiest planes for the their along with extreme maneuverability. If all you have done is played the t4 German CV you have no idea what i'm talking about.

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3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I've been playing the tech-tree German CV's since getting the Rhein, via a crate + mission, during the early-access event.
Before the event the Graf Zeppelin was already in my port.
Now, I've played the GZ, the Rhein, the Erich Loewenhardt and the Weser.
Last night I welcomed the August Von Parseval to my port.  I'm looking forward to testing and evaluating her & her squadron's capabilities as I try to earn the credits and XP for the hull & plane upgrades.

The German CV's are a bit more challenging to play, than other nation's CV's.
The recent "global" nerf of all Armor-Piercing bombs didn't help matters.

The planning, set-up and approach to a target are crucial in getting the best performance from the German aerial ordnance.

If a player doesn't derive personal satisfaction from wringing damage from squadrons that demand specific & precise types of aerial strikes, then perhaps another nation's CV's can satisfy your preferences and play-style.
 

I have all the other nation's CV's to t10 through experience. I"m well aware of the differences between nations and their playstyles. I'm so [edited]tired of people assuming i have no experienced or i'm some "noob CV" captain. I am not arguing that against potato dumb [edited] you can't rack up a lot of damage. I"m stating that against competent skilled players, it's exceptionally difficult to get damage given the ap bomb nerf and rocket salvo deflection angles.

Edited by Sullen_Maximus

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3 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

I never said anything about your skill level and there is no way to access how good you are and they are doing alright from their performance stats over on WoWS Stats & numbers with the tier 4, tier 6 premium, tier 8, and tier 10 all having 52% or higher WR's while still doing decent in their other stats.

This stats are incredibly misleading. Which is the main problem with WG'ing using "global stats" to calculate it. if you're playing against idiot players, yes you can citadel all day. The second there is players whit any semblance of skill, those numbers go to crap. But wargaming looks at global numbers and says "things must be good" not realizing that a single game against idiot players can easily be 200k game,s meanwhile against competent ones, you're lucky to hit 100k.

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On 9/21/2020 at 11:33 PM, Sullen_Maximus said:

I have all the other nation's CV's to t10 through experience. I"m well aware of the differences between nations and their playstyles.

Congratulations.  The only Tier-10 that I have is the Hakuryū.
 

On 9/21/2020 at 11:33 PM, Sullen_Maximus said:

 I'm so [edited]tired of people assuming i have no experienced or i'm some "noob CV" captain. I am not arguing that against potato dumb [edited] you can't rack up a lot of damage. I"m stating that against competent skilled players, it's exceptionally difficult to get damage given the ap bomb nerf and rocket salvo deflection angles.

There are times when I don't have a clear understanding of what someone is trying to get across.  So, the following are for clarification purposes.

1.  Are you surprised that when you rage-post like a "noob" that you get treated like an inexperienced player?
2.  Are you surprised that at Tiers 8/9/10  there are competent players?
3.  How do you feel when you play well and are also facing players who play well and together you're all bringing the "A-game" level of gameplay?  

Edit:  Sorry I couldn't find a less awkward way to ask the questions.

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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German CV is best cv line without any doubt ... OP has stats hidden so i think i figure out his problem ....

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Yeah they are absolute garbage across the board (GZ doesnt count, its pretty decent)
Theres no excuse for them to be this terrible other than gross incompetence by WG. They're bad to play, they're bad to have on your team.

The only good thing about them is when its the other teams only CV.

Any class, CV, BB, etc. that can be defeated by a slight turn left or right is a joke. That rocket plane aiming? WTAF were they thinking? totally obscured by the ocean, land, flak, shells, anything.

 

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On 9/21/2020 at 11:30 PM, Sullen_Maximus said:

Jesus [edited]christ, why would i play it like any other line?  I'm not, did you read the write up at all? And it's nothing like the implacable. The implacable has the tankiest planes for the their along with extreme maneuverability. If all you have done is played the t4 German CV you have no idea what i'm talking about.

Four and six, and I play against plenty of rights and tens. They don't seem to have much issue keeping planes alive. I'm still ending with the point that you're doing it wrong. 

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First off, you forget that German rockets are supersonic(Erich Lowenhardt's rockets have a speed of 12 km/s)and all of them have a range of 10+ kilometers. Just launch them at long range, and it's likely that cruisers won't know to turn yet, since your aircraft are still so far away. And yes, they will citadel that far away, for some reason dispersion isn't affected either.

If DD's are getting harder to hit with torps, stop going for DD's or only go for bots. 

Not to mention your fighter planers have excellent climb rates.

German CV's tend to have a lot more armor, so that you can bounce AP from destroyers & some cruisers & shatter destroyer-caliber HE. And competent German CV players should use the secondaries a lot more on low HP targets. With your better-than-average rudder shift time, you shouldn't have too much of a problem dodging torpedoes.

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Like dad003 mentioned, hiding your stats doesn't add credibility to your critique you know? MvR is the most powerful. 

Now, you do have point that a lot of people have caught on to it's gimmick, but I wouldn't say that it's only good vs people who don't know what they're doing. In fact, I would really like to see what happens during clan battles, and what the coordination between a MvR and BBs/CAs can bring.

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On 9/21/2020 at 7:02 PM, AVR_Project said:

 And if you say it's not like they were in real life....   Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!

There's nothing in this game other than visuals thats "like real life" so.

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2 minutes ago, TabbyHopkins said:

There's nothing in this game other than visuals thats "like real life" so.

And yet HISTORICAL is WG's excuse for the slow speed of the US battleship 'standard' line.  

Long ago, there was a direction towards some semblance of historical accuracy...  Then the VMF cruiser line came out...  lol

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4 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

And yet HISTORICAL is WG's excuse for the slow speed of the US battleship 'standard' line.  

Long ago, there was a direction towards some semblance of historical accuracy...  Then the VMF cruiser line came out...  lol

From closed beta forward there was never any real attempt to make anything feel historical. "Historical accuracy" was almost always used as the excuse for nerfs.

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I came back to the game recently after only playing intermittently the last year or or more.  I like carriers, so started the german line so I had ships in all carrier lines. So far, German is my least favorite.  The Weser was painful for me. In general I feel like the only thing I should use are the dive bombers-- the others dont seem to do much damage at all. 

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Most useless CV in the game. 

When I play DD, etc.  I just laugh if I see a German CV on the other team or cry if I see one on my team.

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On 9/23/2020 at 7:22 AM, MajesticTwelve said:

Yeah they are absolute garbage across the board (GZ doesnt count, its pretty decent)
Theres no excuse for them to be this terrible other than gross incompetence by WG. They're bad to play, they're bad to have on your team.

The only good thing about them is when its the other teams only CV.

Any class, CV, BB, etc. that can be defeated by a slight turn left or right is a joke. That rocket plane aiming? WTAF were they thinking? totally obscured by the ocean, land, flak, shells, anything.

 

I've always wondered if this was due to a Russian design team.

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On 9/23/2020 at 9:18 PM, black_hull4 said:

First off, you forget that German rockets are supersonic(Erich Lowenhardt's rockets have a speed of 12 km/s)and all of them have a range of 10+ kilometers. Just launch them at long range, and it's likely that cruisers won't know to turn yet, since your aircraft are still so far away. And yes, they will citadel that far away, for some reason dispersion isn't affected either.

If DD's are getting harder to hit with torps, stop going for DD's or only go for bots. 

Not to mention your fighter planers have excellent climb rates.

German CV's tend to have a lot more armor, so that you can bounce AP from destroyers & some cruisers & shatter destroyer-caliber HE. And competent German CV players should use the secondaries a lot more on low HP targets. With your better-than-average rudder shift time, you shouldn't have too much of a problem dodging torpedoes.

There is nothing historical about this game except the graphics. 

Have you actually played a german CV?  as you can't launch rockets and hit a target that far out.  The aiming point is preset.

 

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3 hours ago, Ronin69 said:

Have you actually played a german CV?  as you can't launch rockets and hit a target that far out.  The aiming point is preset.

Preset? Preset at what?

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