Can someone explain why PVE Operations are locked to specific tiers?

[NicoleGamingGal]

Just as the titles says. I am someone who genuinely wants to like this game, warships are amazing and all that. But I need to grind in co-op mode because I cannot play PVP without blood-pressure issues, to get a tier 6 ship, which takes days of grinding. to play the mode I want to play.

Why is there no option for Operations to be from tier 3/4 minimum? Like, scale the enemy ships tiers to the random levels. no more than +1/+2 and let people play it from earlier on?

make it a viable alternative and not some, like, bone to throw from on high to the PVE preferring peasants like me? And unlike the person in game I wont accept "they cannot do it cause no one plays it" or "that would need scaling and they can't do that, its not fair!"

1. Operation "Defense of Naval Station Newport" is for tier 6 ships and has a tier 9 Izumo class spawn at the end, so dont event at me with that.

2. Other games do this perfectly fine, using an example that might get my [edited]in trouble here, Armored Warfare, it does exactly that with maps and missions quite similar to WoWS' Opetations and it does fine.

So seriously, why can it not be done here?

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op? And Please for the love of all that is holy, don't change that either. Change variables. like make it slightly harder in operations cause you can do better, sure, but don't lock out content for those who cannot play PVP.

[monpetitloup]

44 minutes ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

Just as the titles says. I am someone who genuinely wants to like this game, warships are amazing and all that. But I need to grind in co-op mode because I cannot play PVP without blood-pressure issues, to get a tier 6 ship, which takes days of grinding. to play the mode I want to play.

Why is there no option for Operations to be from tier 3/4 minimum? Like, scale the enemy ships tiers to the random levels. no more than +1/+2 and let people play it from earlier on?

make it a viable alternative and not some, like, bone to throw from on high to the PVE preferring peasants like me? And unlike the person in game I wont accept "they cannot do it cause no one plays it" or "that would need scaling and they can't do that, its not fair!"

1. Operation "Defense of Naval Station Newport" is for tier 6 ships and has a tier 9 Izumo class spawn at the end, so dont event at me with that.

2. Other games do this perfectly fine, using an example that might get my [edited]in trouble here, Armored Warfare, it does exactly that with maps and missions quite similar to WoWS' Opetations and it does fine.

So seriously, why can it not be done here?

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op? And Please for the love of all that is holy, don't change that either. Change variables. like make it slightly harder in operations cause you can do better, sure, but don't lock out content for those who cannot play PVP.

Because wg has stated they hate operations, regret having invented them, and wont waste resources on them anymore.

i too wish they would do more with operations!

[NicoleGamingGal]

1 hour ago, monpetitloup said:

Because wg has stated they hate operations, regret having invented them, and wont waste resources on them anymore.

i too wish they would do more with operations! 

I am not even wanting them to ONLY do more operations, although, that would be nice, I'm more asking "Why do I need to grind Coop for days to get a ship to play the content I want to play?"

Again a risky subject here, but if Armored Warfare can do it, different genre but similar to WoT, can do it. why not this game?

[HazeGrayUnderway]

We used to have a full Tier VIII Operation (Cherry Blossom) and a mixed Tier VII / VIII one (Hermes;  You could have a Tier VIII FR BB there).

 

But they're gone, they disappeared with the Carrier Rebork in early 2019.

[NicoleGamingGal]

Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

We used to have a full Tier VIII Operation (Cherry Blossom) and a mixed Tier VII / VIII one (Hermes;  You could have a Tier VIII FR BB there). 

I remember that, But that doesn't change that the minimum tier is 6. and that leave 5 tiers of PVP or Coop to slave at, for the *honor* of playing what I want to play where a PVP or Coop only player doesnt have that issue

[monpetitloup]

11 minutes ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

I remember that, But that doesn't change that the minimum tier is 6. and that leave 5 tiers of PVP or Coop to slave at, for the *honor* of playing what I want to play where a PVP or Coop only player doesnt have that issue

Honestly, select rq’dom battke and play tiers 1-3. You will get the same mm with mostly bots and a few humans. You will get random rewards and achievements (kill 5 bots=kraken). If chat is what you dont like disable the chat. Press enter then click the x.

we are lucky they have begun to populate randoms low tier with bots, take advantage while it lasts.

[NicoleGamingGal]

14 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

Honestly, select rq’dom battke and play tiers 1-3. You will get the same mm with mostly bots and a few humans. You will get random rewards and achievements (kill 5 bots=kraken). If chat is what you dont like disable the chat. Press enter then click the x. 

that would be a good idea if its not the PVP itself that is impossible. a bot you can learn, and out think, a player is unpredictable. and therefore a naturally harder opponent. But harder for someone to learn if they lack the ability to think on the fly taking 10+ factors into account.

(and the inability to re spawn doesn't help with learning)

[x_Quinn_x]

Lazy Devs

 

                            

[sh1ndl3rs_f1st]

Defense of Newport was Tier V and VI when it started, which was better IMO.  

The Izumo doesn't always come out.  If you can keep the bots out of the ring and save your forts from being destroyed it wont spawn.

Depending on the type, some directives, sometimes, are available in Operations, usually Base XP.

[SteelRain_Rifleman]

It's unfortunate that there is little to offer at tier 5, but WG has been accused in the past of letting low tier players grow too fast so they literally created a speed bump of sorts if one is of little experience in the game.

However, having said that, you can hurtles 5 without a premium account or ship if you focus on one thing.

Always attack the higher tier target a lot, and get it to fire at you as well. Use HE initially unless you get lucky and catch someone broadside. But fires do add up. So get as many ships lit up as possible.

Back in the day I would cook 3 at a time and once they put out the fires, I just restarted them and switched targets.

If you are able to burn a lot of ships down at low tiers you will break through in XP.

Revenue and XP pays highest if you are uptiered. Just be clever about it and be opportunistic.

When you get a decent BB or cruiser, then switch to AP and use HE situational. DDs is just a situation.

Skills you need to acquire early for yourself is to always keep moving, use cover, have a means to break off, hit anything not paying attention, hit high tiers, aim the guns well with AP, turn sharply to torps and CV drops,(evasive action), take those caps, contest caps, flog that CV with AP as much as possible, and get as many planes shot down with sector priority.

Above all have fun and heed advice from players that is constructive. If there is salty player's about, then just ignore.

Playing this game is about goals and no matter the mode, you can get there.

Hit all aspects of XP farming with winning as the ultimate goal. So pay attention to the map and the points counter. Sometimes victory comes with just surviving the game and scoring highest or timing out higher in points.

Strategy is often blasphemy among some players, but it is a tool used by the highly intelligent.

And even intelligent folks can get frustrated by a meta, but asking for advice is also a great sign of intelligence because one is eager to learn.

Good luck

Chuck Norris approves this message 👍

[Bakakaze]

As has been mentioned, tier 6 operations used to be accessible for tier 5 and 6 ships and several of the higher tier ones were accessible to several tiers as well. Hermes allowed tier 8 French BBs, Dynamo allowed only allied DDs but tiers 6 and 7 while also allowing the tier 8 Cossack. Cherry Blossom was for tier 8 allied cruisers. My patch still has the symbol that I got as a reward for completing Cherry for the first time and I kept it because I like(d) operations. But Wargaming doesn't. Not really anyway.

 

Iirc tier 5 ships were disallowed from entering operations due to complaints about bad teammates.

 

At least there's still coop to help preserve my sanity :P

[Khafni]

6 hours ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

Just as the titles says. I am someone who genuinely wants to like this game, warships are amazing and all that. But I need to grind in co-op mode because I cannot play PVP without blood-pressure issues, to get a tier 6 ship, which takes days of grinding. to play the mode I want to play.

Why is there no option for Operations to be from tier 3/4 minimum? Like, scale the enemy ships tiers to the random levels. no more than +1/+2 and let people play it from earlier on?

make it a viable alternative and not some, like, bone to throw from on high to the PVE preferring peasants like me? And unlike the person in game I wont accept "they cannot do it cause no one plays it" or "that would need scaling and they can't do that, its not fair!"

1. Operation "Defense of Naval Station Newport" is for tier 6 ships and has a tier 9 Izumo class spawn at the end, so dont event at me with that.

2. Other games do this perfectly fine, using an example that might get my [edited]in trouble here, Armored Warfare, it does exactly that with maps and missions quite similar to WoWS' Opetations and it does fine.

So seriously, why can it not be done here?

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op? And Please for the love of all that is holy, don't change that either. Change variables. like make it slightly harder in operations cause you can do better, sure, but don't lock out content for those who cannot play PVP.

WG has said they won't focus on operations. That said you just have to grind to the appropriate tier.

WG set the tier for the players to balance the scenario. Sure, the bots range from T2 to T9 but they aren't humans and are predictable and can be balanced against the human team.

WG doesn't want heavy involvement in the scenarios so they try to make it unattractive so very few directives include the mode.

WG, hmmmm. It is their game so what they say goes. We all have to live with it.

Do what @SteelRain_Rifleman suggested to make the grind faster. Good luck!

[Asym_KS]

8 hours ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

Just as the titles says. I am someone who genuinely wants to like this game, warships are amazing and all that. But I need to grind in co-op mode because I cannot play PVP without blood-pressure issues, to get a tier 6 ship, which takes days of grinding. to play the mode I want to play.

Why is there no option for Operations to be from tier 3/4 minimum? Like, scale the enemy ships tiers to the random levels. no more than +1/+2 and let people play it from earlier on?

make it a viable alternative and not some, like, bone to throw from on high to the PVE preferring peasants like me? And unlike the person in game I wont accept "they cannot do it cause no one plays it" or "that would need scaling and they can't do that, its not fair!"

1. Operation "Defense of Naval Station Newport" is for tier 6 ships and has a tier 9 Izumo class spawn at the end, so dont event at me with that.

2. Other games do this perfectly fine, using an example that might get my [edited]in trouble here, Armored Warfare, it does exactly that with maps and missions quite similar to WoWS' Opetations and it does fine.

So seriously, why can it not be done here?

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op? And Please for the love of all that is holy, don't change that either. Change variables. like make it slightly harder in operations cause you can do better, sure, but don't lock out content for those who cannot play PVP.

It's all about money.   Think about this for a second.  What OP/Meta ships are selling?  Endless Carriers?  Tiers IX and X meta's?  

Scenarios are tiers VI and VII :...........and, they have neutered them; tinkered with them to devalue them; and, taken a few off the list because they simply don't want us, you know, the POCKING PAYING customers, to do what we want............   They want us in PVP only BECAUSE, that is where the "real money" is in their minds......

It's that simple.  We've had some serious Whales tell this corporation:  STOP screwing with PVE; and, this corporation simply doesn't care.  So, if I were you, the only way to change a BULLY is to confront them with equal vigor:  stop spending and fight back.......    

OH, they HATE COOP too........  They only see PVP as a means to a great financial end........  And, their other titles can carry losses in WoPs and WoWs so, there is no incentive to encourage PVE.   That is the bottom line for them: PVP or leave.  And, a great many I know have left all of their other games and this one........ 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

7 hours ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

I remember that, But that doesn't change that the minimum tier is 6. and that leave 5 tiers of PVP or Coop to slave at, for the *honor* of playing what I want to play where a PVP or Coop only player doesnt have that issue

Defeat at Newport originally was Tier V-VI.  But we got WG to change it only to Tier VI because the Tier V ships were absolutely terrible at it.  Newport was difficult enough as it is, but Tier V were not up to it.  Not even the Tier V Carriers of the RTS era were good for it.

 

If you're implying that there should be no tier restriction in these ops, some of these ships would make them trivial.  2 players in Secondary Spec Massachusetts would make Newport trivial against these low tier bot targets.  And with no tier restrictions, and let's say bots scale up due to player tiers, what happens if some dude in a Tier IV Phoenix has to play against Tier IX ships that will hit and overmatch, Citadel him at every angle, while the higher tier players are going along just fine?

[HayabusaZ]

Most of the Scenarios are good, but Newport could use a tweak.  Give us Tier VII ships instead of tier VI, please.  Unless it is heavily populated by divisions that know the Op, tier VI is brutal for most random groups I've been in.  I don't play this one as often as I play the other Scenarios because the random players don't bother to learn to play the OP, which is about positioning, and focus firing among other important things.  I realize Tier VII will not solve this problem, but it might allow the surviving ships to have a better chance.

[HamptonRoads]

 

15 hours ago, NicoleGamingGal said:

Just as the titles says. I am someone who genuinely wants to like this game, warships are amazing and all that. But I need to grind in co-op mode because I cannot play PVP without blood-pressure issues, to get a tier 6 ship, which takes days of grinding. to play the mode I want to play.

Why is there no option for Operations to be from tier 3/4 minimum? Like, scale the enemy ships tiers to the random levels. no more than +1/+2 and let people play it from earlier on?

make it a viable alternative and not some, like, bone to throw from on high to the PVE preferring peasants like me? And unlike the person in game I wont accept "they cannot do it cause no one plays it" or "that would need scaling and they can't do that, its not fair!"

1. Operation "Defense of Naval Station Newport" is for tier 6 ships and has a tier 9 Izumo class spawn at the end, so dont event at me with that.

2. Other games do this perfectly fine, using an example that might get my [edited]in trouble here, Armored Warfare, it does exactly that with maps and missions quite similar to WoWS' Opetations and it does fine
So seriously, why can it not be done here?

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op? And Please for the love of all that is holy, don't change that either. Change variables. like make it slightly harder in operations cause you can do better, sure, but don't lock out content for those who cannot play PVP.

The first operations were for t5 and 6.  When mixed tiers, the AI would default to the t6 setting, meaning that many of the t5s were outclassed.  Trying to scale the operations would create similar problems trying to balance.  MM would also be an issue.  If there were multiple tiers with a variety of ships to create a balanced team would probably mean longer queue times.

WG has recently nerfed the earning of operations, so it seems clear that have become the red-haired stepchild of WoWS.  PVE mains had to raise a huge amount of flak to get to where the developers are including it in regular events.  I suspect that scenario players will have to be similarly vocal to get TPTB to listen, but don't expect that to happen soon.

[Singularity_invader]

9 hours ago, HayabusaZ said:

Most of the Scenarios are good, but Newport could use a tweak.  Give us Tier VII ships instead of tier VI, please.  Unless it is heavily populated by divisions that know the Op, tier VI is brutal for most random groups I've been in.  I don't play this one as often as I play the other Scenarios because the random players don't bother to learn to play the OP, which is about positioning, and focus firing among other important things.  I realize Tier VII will not solve this problem, but it might allow the surviving ships to have a better chance.

Completing Newport with 5 stars needs a reliable CV, because spotting and killing bots early is crucial. It would be even more difficult if required tier for this operation gets changed from 6 to 7.

[Singularity_invader]

The game used to have more operations, but the old ones not only restrict ship tiers, but also countries and classes.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Scenarios

[HazeGrayUnderway]

The whole thing is pointless anyways.  The devs said they were putting Ops on ignore.

Except for nerfs.

Always had time to nerf Ops.

[Slimeball91]

4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The whole thing is pointless anyways.  The devs said they were putting Ops on ignore.

Except for nerfs.

Always had time to nerf Ops.

Someone posted a Q&A with the devs from the Asia forum a few days ago.  They said some ops would be coming back.  I have no idea if that info was legit or not.  Maybe its true, but I'm not getting my hopes up and end up like this.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

3 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

Someone posted a Q&A with the devs from the Asia forum a few days ago.  They said some ops would be coming back.  I have no idea if that info was legit or not.  Maybe its true, but I'm not getting my hopes up and end up like this.

They can say whatever they want, but the fact is we are almost 2 years since those Ops got yanked.

And of course their rewards will be nerfed should they return.

It's all been real annoying.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

On 9/21/2020 at 2:54 AM, NicoleGamingGal said:

And the inability to do directives in Operations is backassward. why punish those who play that mode but not PVE Co-op?

Because Operations has Randoms gains for co-op ease (excepting Newport, which is difficult unless everyone in the team is experienced with it, and even then), and is a target-rich environment where the bots are tightly scripted (some experts have it timed so well they can pre-launch torps where an enemy ship is about to spawn in). There is a level of predictability to the bots that even Co-op doesn't have.

 Some of the damage and kill totals would be ridiculously easy to achieve there.

Operations are, however, still valid for those missions requiring any form of XP or credits.

The other thing which differentiates ops from Co-op/randoms for combat tasks is that operations IS THE ONLY MODE IN WHICH TEAM DAMAGE IS IMPOSSIBLE. So you can (for example) spam torpedoes like nobody's business into a bunch of enemy ships for torp hits, not needing to care whether you hit one of your friends. The ability to avoid team damage/kills lends it a unique degree of ease in this case, or at least that's probably WG's reasoning.

I heard that T6 ops used to be open to Tier 5 as well, but it became apparent that the T5 ships weren't up to it.

The Izumo is a singular problem whose spawning can IIRC be avoided. @Lightninger is the expert on this one, and can correct me if I am wrong.

 

But yeah, grind to T6 you must, or play operations you cannot.

[Dreadwolf74]

As a CBT player+ I remember when they had a proud declaration of 'Operations Seasons', and we'd get new operations.  Yes we got them, they were good (some were nightmares at first as nobody really knew what to do in them), and I was loving the Dunkirk one as well as giving us a t8 (although limited in what ships were allowed) one.  But now they yanked them with the CV rework stating they needed to fix the AI or some such on the CV.  Well CVs in COOP are there now and yet around half the operations are still MIA.  Perhaps if enough players spoke/petitioned WG they might listen, they do care about our moneys after all :P    

Also with newport ops how about letting in t7s :P  The Izumo and all the flooding of enemy ships near the end can end the defense quick-quick.

 

[Sabot_100]

22 hours ago, Dreadwolf74 said:

ell CVs in COOP are there now and yet around half the operations are still MIA. 

True. But the bot CVs are almost a joke and can be  routinely ignored. Even with bad AA ships. Their biggest contribution is at the beginning of the game where they can find and spot your DDs. I rarely get hit by any bot air dropped weapons (although I sometimes have to slow/turn to avoid torps). Its pure luck if the bots manage to hit you with a rocket which is one of the easiest weapons for a human to use. 

Imagine Dunkirk where you can pretty much ignore the planes. The E-boats become the only real threat. Or Cherry Blossom with no effective air threat?

WG still has a long way to go to make the bot planes dangerous (but not absolutely lethal).

[freggo]

On 9/21/2020 at 3:15 AM, NicoleGamingGal said:

I am not even wanting them to ONLY do more operations, although, that would be nice, I'm more asking "Why do I need to grind Coop for days to get a ship to play the content I want to play?"

Again a risky subject here, but if Armored Warfare can do it, different genre but similar to WoT, can do it. why not this game?

I am not making friends with this but...

Because in the grind to that T6 ship you (hopefully) learn in the lower tiers how to shoot, lead, use torps, configure secondaries and commanders...

No team wants to go into Battle on Killer Whale or Aegis with a rookie who brings a T6 but does not know yet how to use it. The team will go into battle using up their camos, flags and special flags and should not have to risk wasting them because a player in there raced so fast up the ladder that he/she can not -yet- pull his/her weight!