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Uncle_Lou

How well does one need to play to win consistently?

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Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

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Others will disagree with me, but I stand by what I say. Luck of the draw as far as teammates means far more in this game than in many others. Yeah, if it was a 5v5 you could carry your team to victory if you're some type of savant. But 12v12? One ship can only do so much. I don't think win rate should be the end all be all determining factor for ones skill. 

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Some days even we have terrible streaks. Stopping when we recognize that helps. Basically keep going on good days, stop after, say, 3 losses in a row is my thing. After a good while of this, and keeping your contribution to the match high, you'll win more. A sample of even only a week is too small, a sample of maybe a month or more is better.

 

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2 hours ago, Amgen said:

Some days even we have terrible streaks. Stopping when we recognize that helps. Basically keep going on good days, stop after, say, 3 losses in a row is my thing. After a good while of this, and keeping your contribution to the match high, you'll win more. A sample of even only a week is too small, a sample of maybe a month or more is better.

 

I’m sure this is good advice if your trying to keep up your win rate and your a good player . But it’s sucks if you just want to play the game .
Say you just got off of work six pack in the fridge finally have some time to play .Then you lose your first 3 games your supposed to quit ? That doesn’t seem like a solution yet I see it being giving as advice quite often

. I’m not good I have lots of 3 game losing streaks it’s hard to quit after each one . The long losing or winning streaks in this game are what drive me crazy .  4 or 5 wins were I do nothing followed by 5 or 6 losses where I play good .

Being a slightly below average player I feel I have no control over wins and loses . I’m basically at the mercy of my teammates . Kind of takes the fun out of it at times not really having control over wins and loses but I know this going in so I accept it .

I just do my best to try and help the team win while enjoyIng  the great graphics and beautiful ships and not get to frustrated . 

Edited by clammboy
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Well based on tonight's experiences in randoms I need to average 12 kills a game. :Smile_sad:

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5 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

Eh Lou-

Not to blow sunshine up your [edited]but in looking through your stats you’re one of the most solid players I’ve seen in a long time that isn’t all purple from a reroll...

You hit what you aim at (main battery hit percentage) and do damage that matters (increasing average experience) and keep your gun in the game (good survival rate- but not too good).

You’re a balanced player across all 3 classes ([edited] carriers anyway), have great exposure in mid-high tiers where you have been successful throughout with an above average performance...I think you’re in a minor win / loss rut that won’t last long. Keep doing what you’re doing- 

By now you know you’re going to streak either direction and while right now it looks like your WL is on a downturn your other two tangible charts (which to me are average XP and damage) are climbing continuously- this tells me you’re pulling your weight in game.

We all want to win and some will tell you that stats don’t matter- but clearly you’re paying attention, playing to win and really working to have as much of an impact on the battles you participate in as you can. I’m positive you’re going to come out of this even if you changed absolutely nothing. You’re a great player and will not stay losing for long.

 

Edited by _ENO_
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The point of the game is to have fun.

Wins happen.  Losses happen.

 

3 hours ago, Amgen said:

Some days even we have terrible streaks. Stopping when we recognize that helps. Basically keep going on good days, stop after, say, 3 losses in a row is my thing. After a good while of this, and keeping your contribution to the match high, you'll win more. A sample of even only a week is too small, a sample of maybe a month or more is better.

 

 

1 hour ago, clammboy said:

I’m sure this is good advice if your trying to keep up your win rate and your a good player . But it’s sucks if you just want to play the game .
Say you just got off of work six pack in the fridge finally have some time to play .Then you lose your first 3 games your supposed to quit ? That doesn’t seem like a solution yet I see it being giving as advice quite often

. I’m not good I have lots of 3 game losing streaks it’s hard to quit after each one . The long losing or winning streaks in this game are what drive me crazy .  4 or 5 wins were I do nothing followed by 5 or 6 losses where I play good .

Being a slightly below average player I feel I have no control over wins and loses . I’m basically at the mercy of my teammates . Kind of takes the fun out of it at times not really having control over wins and loses but I know this going in so I accept it .

I just do my best to try and help the team win while enjoyIng  the great graphics and beautiful ships and not get to frustrated . 

@Amgen and @clammboy  have nicely illustrated some common points of view.  Common, and, conflicting.

I suggest that one way to look at the situation is to remember the progress you're making. 
Earning credits, earning XP/CXP/FXP, coal, signal-flags, steel, temporary camouflages, and progressing through campaign or mission directives towards your goals.
And enjoy the journey along the way by engaging in witty banter while in the chat screen during your battles. 
Savor the creativity of the many entertaining monikers that people are using.
Rejoice at seeing familiar people and get to know the ones you meet for the first time.

And, if you want to pause and contemplate your experiences and derive a new approach in order to improve your game, that's all well and good.
In various martial arts movies the protagonist gets defeated and then meditates on what happened and comes up with a way to win the day later on in the script.  :-)
Study the history of how the ships were used in real life.  Figure out how to apply it in the game.
Study current and past trends in game play and figure out how to use the knowledge for your own purposes.

Hone your appreciation of good play, by valued allies and by worthy adversaries.  
Devote oneself to being a good sport in addition to improving one's connection & partnership with thy waifu.

Good luck, have fun.  :-)

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6 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Study the history of how the ships were used in real life.  Figure out how to apply it in the game.

I don't know that this is such a good idea... We don't want op running around "crossing the T" all over the place. 

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1 minute ago, _ENO_ said:

I don't know that this is such a good idea... We don't want op running around "crossing the T" all over the place. 

While many only know about that particular tactic, it is applied in game.  But, nowadays it is called "focused fire".

Same concept, slightly different map positioning, similar results.

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5 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

Suggest you try to come to terms with the mathematics. A 50% win rate means that the situation is equivalent to a coin toss. Toss a coin enough times and the likelihood of losing streaks increases. A 54% win rate lowers the chances of win/loss streaks but not by much.

https://wizardofodds.com/image/ask-the-wizard/streaks.pdf

That said, have you done anything different lately? - Switch to a new ship or ship type, for example?

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I try to keep it simple - so I have fun far more times than not... 

My way of thinking is if I take as much or more damage from the reds than my ship has HP at the start, it was an okay game. I realize for DDs that is easily achieved but as the tiers climb, it gets a bit more of a challenge. I often find carriers the hardest to play in this manner. 

Give more than you take and you're doing fine. 

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13 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

While many only know about that particular tactic, it is applied in game.  But, nowadays it is called "focused fire".

Same concept, slightly different map positioning, similar results.

Okay then. You do you. Study away. 

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5 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

Uncle_Lou, follow @_ENO_'s advice here. Win rate can suffer but if your damage and XP are climbing you are doing it right. I look at my performance on the https://na.wows-numbers.com/ site. Ignore Personal Rating as there are different flavors of them out there. My win rate is tanking a bit as well but my damage output and XP (whether premium or not) are climbing. Your accuracy helps a lot with that.

image.thumb.png.7b25c27843521ee6ff87bc7f267165f9.png

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26 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

Okay then. You do you. Study away. 

Might as well study indoor-paintball-arena tactics while you're at it.

Random battles are more like an indoor paintball event than a naval battle, all too often.

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5 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

I hold to the mantra that you can:

* Go for Damage

* Go for Wins

Sadly, you can't do both.  Not unless you are on some extreme end of the spectrum where your damage singlehandedly just runs over everyone.

-----

Try to focus on "impact". 

Are you in a cruiser with consumables?  Are you using them to hold caps away from the enemy?  Are you using them to deny the enemy from hiding spots?

Are you in a DD with low detection?  Are you using that detection to contest caps?  Are you using your stealth to scare the enemy from moving because of torp threat?

Are you in a Battleship?  Are you in a position that scares cruisers behind islands?  Are you close enough to hit your shots, but far enough to make the enemy work hard to bring you down?

Are you in a Carrier?  Are you trying to keep tabs on sneaking movements of your enemy to let your team make better decisions?  Are you turning fair fights into unfair fights that your team can win?

 

Damage is important.  Without damage, the enemy doesn't stop killing you.  That being said, this is a game about positioning and influence... if you can influence the board you will translate that into more wins over the long term.

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22 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Might as well study indoor-paintball-arena tactics while you're at it.

Random battles are more like an indoor paintball event than a naval battle, all too often.

This we agree on.

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1. Play at the level you currently play at and...

2. ...div... of three, preferably. Two can sometimes carry a lower tier match, but high tier, forget it.

3. Don't play T10 because the matches there are awful crapshoots. Hands down the worst, dullest play in the game, and the most broken ships (Borg, Venezia, Petra, Krem, Smol, Colbert, so many ships at the tier are broken). Once you are down at that tier, the overwhelming advantage of firepower over defense means that recovery is hard. 

4. Play tiers 5-7 often and 8-9 sparingly. Gameplay is more fun, none of the ships are ridiculously broken, except maybe Guilio and T61. When you get a down a ship or two recovery is often possible. Three players in a div are usually enough to carry, if they perform at your level. 

You can raise your win rate over time that way. Carrying is harder since the idiotic ReBork chased away so many good players, meaning that there is no leaven of skilled players to assist a recovery like there was before the CV Rework. Divisioning with other consistently solid players is the only way to really keep that WR ticking up. 

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6 hours ago, jondoom said:

Others will disagree with me, but I stand by what I say. Luck of the draw as far as teammates means far more in this game than in many others. Yeah, if it was a 5v5 you could carry your team to victory if you're some type of savant. But 12v12? One ship can only do so much. I don't think win rate should be the end all be all determining factor for ones skill. 

Agree.  If you hit a potato patch for teammates, you can walk on water and still lose big time.  NO ONE (OK, maybe one of you can - so don't downvote me because I could have meant you are the one) can win if they are down 5-6 ships after 3 minutes.

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what I want to know is how do I play and not die constantly when i'm in a coop with 8 other people that are all just sitting there watching the game like its a TV show or something

 

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6 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Just logged out of a frustrating play session after 13 games.  Across those 13 games, I averaged just a hair shy of 100k in damage and 1.25 kills per game.  I realize that these are not necessarily mind-blowing numbers, but my win rate for the session is 38%.  Just 5 wins tonight.  I'm left wondering if anyone can tell me how much better I need to play in order to carry a couple more games each session.  My overall win rate is a bit over 54% but lately I can't even get to 48% and it is really damaging my interest in playing.  I have even been spending time playing other games, just to try to get a bit of a mental 'reset' on WoWS and still I come back to the same frustrating thing.  What the heck is one supposed to do?

Play as well as you can!! 
 

okay, stupid answer. Play as well as you can, sink a couple of ships and hit 100k damage plus each game and you’re still going to have to get lucky and pray to rng you don’t land with teams of potatoes. With WG dangling 200% win carrots over us atm a loss streak can be infuriating especially when your own play has been solid. I try and quit after four losses in a row and come back later, but of course reality is someone’s I keep hitting my head against the wall. I like pain, so it’s natural for me. Yesterday I went 13/17 loss to win. I should have walked away, I never did. I also played solid the entire session and finished without an “oh sh**” game. Sometimes it just happens. Sorry OP. GL HH, Lemmie know if you figure something out. Divisioning tends to be the popular answer too though I don’t mess with it. 

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10 minutes ago, wolfkind252 said:

what I want to know is how do I play and not die constantly when i'm in a coop with 8 other people that are all just sitting there watching the game like its a TV show or something

 

That happens in coop? I never see that. Usually for me coop is a struggle to get damage.

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40 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

1. Play at the level you currently play at and...

2. ...div... of three, preferably. Two can sometimes carry a lower tier match, but high tier, forget it.

3. Don't play T10 because the matches there are awful crapshoots. Hands down the worst, dullest play in the game, and the most broken ships (Borg, Venezia, Petra, Krem, Smol, Colbert, so many ships at the tier are broken). Once you are down at that tier, the overwhelming advantage of firepower over defense means that recovery is hard. 

4. Play tiers 5-7 often and 8-9 sparingly. Gameplay is more fun, none of the ships are ridiculously broken, except maybe Guilio and T61. When you get a down a ship or two recovery is often possible. Three players in a div are usually enough to carry, if they perform at your level. 

You can raise your win rate over time that way. Carrying is harder since the idiotic ReBork chased away so many good players, meaning that there is no leaven of skilled players to assist a recovery like there was before the CV Rework. Divisioning with other consistently solid players is the only way to really keep that WR ticking up. 

Completely disagree T5-7 is boring and terrible T9-T10 is where the game is best.   But you do you. 

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You can do everything correctly and still lose.

Streaks can happen as well.

However, losing only takes one or two mistakes to happen and the vast majority of loses happen after making two to three personal or six to ten team total. (personal anecdote)

  • Farming damage might seem like it is not a mistake, but it can add up to one
  • Poor positioning is definitely a mistake
  • Not adjusting positioning to dynamic battlefield conditions is a mistake
  • Not following up on teammate mistakes can turn into a big mistake or be kept as a minimal one
  • You can prevent teammates from making mistakes in the first place, by being in the correct position at the correct timing
  • There is such a thing as bringing the wrong ship for the meta
Edited by MrDeaf

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You used the phrase “win consistently” in your title. You have to consider carefully what “consistently” means in order to have reasonable expectations.

A 60% overall winrate is associated with top-level players. At that level, you would still see losses 40% of the time. And you’ll still have days where you have more losses than wins. They will be less frequent, but they will never go away completely.

The most consistent hitters in baseball connect on less than 40% of their “non-walk, non-error, etc.” at-bats.

The best quarterbacks in football connect on their passes about 70% of the time (now THAT is starting to sound like consistency), but some days, the defense succeeds in their evil plans, and it’s a bludgeoning.

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