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dDangerZone

CHAT STORAGE... REAL OR FAKE???

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Some time ago, in response to a ticket that I sent, WG answered me something that caught my attention: In WG's response it said that they store ALL CHATS of all players at all times... That there is a file, so to speak, in which all the words written by one in the chat are saved ... I remembered this because I wanted to report a real cancer and I could not find the replay ... I sent a ticket but they told me that without replay they cannot take action on it ... So how true can it be to "archive all the written words of each player from the first to the last" ... Do you all think it is possible ???, or is it just something to scare and try to control a little those attacks of sudden stupidity that some players suffer ???

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6 minutes ago, dDangerZone said:

Some time ago, in response to a ticket that I sent, WG answered me something that caught my attention: In WG's response it said that they store ALL CHATS of all players at all times... That there is a file, so to speak, in which all the words written by one in the chat are saved ... I remembered this because I wanted to report a real cancer and I could not find the replay ... I sent a ticket but they told me that without replay they cannot take action on it ... So how true can it be to "archive all the written words of each player from the first to the last" ... Do you all think it is possible ???, or is it just something to scare and try to control a little those attacks of sudden stupidity that some players suffer ???

I'd say there is a log file of some sort. 
Who can read it, where it is stored is anyone's guess though. 
 

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There was a bit of a scandal last year with a Wargaming employee taking offense to something someone said to them in a match. That person got in trouble as did the other people in his division. I kind of forget the details but I do remember that Wargaming went back thru the in game chats and private messages sent to find violations to justify their censure of those players. IIRC, some of the things were months old. It really caused a big stink here in the forums, so I know they have the ability to go back at least a few months. The same goes for forum private messages BTW so it is best to be careful what you say even when you think it is sent in private. 

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13 minutes ago, dDangerZone said:

So how true can it be to "archive all the written words of each player from the first to the last" ... Do you all think it is possible

Yes, possible. Furthermore, back when I cared enough to go to RU forums, I would see that devs from time to time would call out people that complained about chat bans, and would paste all the horrible stuff those people have said in game.

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I would assume those logs are likely ordered by battles, hence why they are asking for the replay so they can quickly find it or just look directly at the replay. I would imagine otherwise CS people would spent a significant amount of time just doing searches in databases etc.

It might also be a thing with different regions having different data protection laws, allowing/prohibiting the storage of such information.

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58 minutes ago, dDangerZone said:

Some time ago, in response to a ticket that I sent, WG answered me something that caught my attention: In WG's response it said that they store ALL CHATS of all players at all times... That there is a file, so to speak, in which all the words written by one in the chat are saved ... I remembered this because I wanted to report a real cancer and I could not find the replay ... I sent a ticket but they told me that without replay they cannot take action on it ... So how true can it be to "archive all the written words of each player from the first to the last" ... Do you all think it is possible ???, or is it just something to scare and try to control a little those attacks of sudden stupidity that some players suffer ???

Nothing fake about this... Everything you say or anyone else said in txt in the game is recorded and can be retrieved...

WOWS is not the only game to do this, other game titles have this capability as well.

The worst offender of this, is discord hands down... Never ever say anything offensive or post anything illegal on discord... They can review EVERYTHING from the conception of the offending/reviewing account.

Edited by Navalpride33

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2 hours ago, Taylor3006 said:

There was a bit of a scandal last year with a Wargaming employee taking offense to something someone said to them in a match. That person got in trouble as did the other people in his division. I kind of forget the details but I do remember that Wargaming went back thru the in game chats and private messages sent to find violations to justify their censure of those players. IIRC, some of the things were months old. It really caused a big stink here in the forums, so I know they have the ability to go back at least a few months. The same goes for forum private messages BTW so it is best to be careful what you say even when you think it is sent in private. 

it was an 07 div. It was back when Graf Zep was being tested or in an OP state. The Graf Zep 07 player destroyed a WG employee immediately at the start of the match and typed "enjoy, WG." Then all 3 guys in the div were given bans and the WG employee justified it by going through their chat logs to pull an excuse for the bans. Pretty sure the higher ups reversed the bans and apologized for it.

Edited by USS_Taylor_Swift
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real

WG can and does, 

  1. store*
  2. retrieve*
  3. delete* 
  4. edit*
  5. use*

everything a user publishes on WG platforms, both in private and public exchanges, this includes the in game chat system, and the forums (public).

1. and 2. are reasons why users should watch their language, and statements and avoid death threats, 3, 4 and 5 are reasons why nobody should take their own user account, too seriously.

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4 hours ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

it was an 07 div. It was back when Graf Zep was being tested or in an OP state. The Graf Zep 07 player destroyed a WG employee immediately at the start of the match and typed "enjoy, WG." Then all 3 guys in the div were given bans and the WG employee justified it by going through their chat logs to pull an excuse for the bans. Pretty sure the higher ups reversed the bans and apologized for it.

Thanks for filling it in. I basically just remembered I thought the whole thing was stupid and how I was pretty disgusted about how the original WeeGee purported hisself. In the end, Wargaming did the right thing but my big takeaway from the mess was how far back they could go to get chat information. 

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I think it is true. Chat messages are text only and require very little volume in terms of data. Replays can go back years because data can be compressed and archived. Even if from a previous version of the game.

All chat is narrowed down by most researchers based on a time stamp and just providing a replay helps to narrow the search to save time. 

Researching chat logs takes time, but give them a time frame and key words, then they use the search engine.

Most gaming companies do this and it is easily stored.

In WGs case, given their company size and servers, I would hazard a guess they can go back to anything except Alpha and closed Beta. The data for those are probably archived by now. But largely trivial.

No data collection laws will inhibit a company to keep logs. Because the EULA was accepted from day one. Read the fine print.

Here is one caveat about Discord and other social media, no matter how thoroughly determined one can delete anything, so long as it passes through the air (cell phone provider), or an ISP; a duplicate of the data is made and stored on servers. Again, an end user license agreement will detail this. Since some countries are very adamant about public safety from terrorist organizations, data is hardly private anymore. The often invoked "national security" is the just cause.

So, data if stored by a provider, can be searched by digital warrant. But only if a suspected crime is being committed. 

In gaming, companies will use this data for offenses to the EULA. They will not or are obligated to, turn it over to authorities unless the company falls under the jurisdiction of the warrant.

As for social media, let's just say government only watches if someone asks, then if it's"interesting" they take out the popcorn. Anything suspicious and you will finally get follows you always wanted, only it's the kind you didn't want. 

Games will always have bad behavior and it's the same process. You report it, send in proof that is requested, and wait for an answer.

The default answer if action is taken is"action was taken" . No details. You are not going to be told what action.

Customer service has grappled with issues like this since the inception of online gaming. It will constantly evolve and we can only hope that it is improved or streamlined. Until an AI is tasked to watch games, we still have to report it.

As for social media and voice chat apps, well let's just say that if it's affordable, free, or claims to be secure; it is not.

The internet can't be erased, so it's every person's responsibility to take their posts into consideration before hitting that button. Chat is just an easy thing to find for every company now.

I hope this helps give you insight and answers. Good luck 👍

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Yes, WG keeps logs of all chat and PMs. They can go and look at these at will. It's also somwhat automated, as they can pretty obviously search your logs as well. Same applies here on the forums.

The reason CS needed a replay was because while chat is good, they need to also look at what actually happened in battle to determine action. Someone raging in chat is one thing, but there's a big difference between yelling after you die and raging so much you end up TKing someone. They want the complete picture before they start handing out bans.

So all those people who claim they were banned for no reason or some light cursing, well WG can go back and see if that's actually the case. Just remember anything you say in game or on the forum will be stored and may come back to haunt you.

1 hour ago, hateboat said:

real

WG can and does, 

  1. store*
  2. retrieve*
  3. delete* 
  4. edit*
  5. use*

everything a user publishes on WG platforms, both in private and public exchanges, this includes the in game chat system, and the forums (public).

1. and 2. are reasons why users should watch their language, and statements and avoid death threats, 3, 4 and 5 are reasons why nobody should take their own user account, too seriously.

1 and 2 absolutely. 3 and 4 yes, but the only times I've ever known that to happen is to remove or edit posts here that break the rules. 5, while technically true again the only time I've ever seen this happen is when WG has asked for people to write or post reviews of premium ships to put on the webpage. And even though it's their forum, if they just started using things people wrote that's a slippery slope into legal trouble. You need to take the tinfoil hat off, WG has way better things to do than start pulling 1984 crapwith forum posts (plenty of Puerto Rico posts still around, even though I'm sure WG would like that event to completely disappear).

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They definitely do keep your chat logs.

Any player can request a Data dump from WG that includes a file of all your own Chat messages:

 

 

 

image.png

Edited by xyt272
extra snip removed
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There is a link in your profile here on the website that you click and WG will send you a report that contains every purchase that you have ever made with them.  I clicked it and it took a few days for the report to show up in my email.  It also contained though, every word I have ever typed into any chat box in the game.  Everything you put on the internet is forever, even if you think you deleted it or no-one was watching.

Edit: See the post above mine.

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9 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

1 and 2 absolutely. 3 and 4 yes, but the only times I've ever known that to happen is to remove or edit posts here that break the rules. 5, while technically true again the only time I've ever seen this happen is when WG has asked for people to write or post reviews of premium ships to put on the webpage. And even though it's their forum, if they just started using things people wrote that's a slippery slope into legal trouble. You need to take the tinfoil hat off, WG has way better things to do than start pulling 1984 crapwith forum posts (plenty of Puerto Rico posts still around, even though I'm sure WG would like that event to completely disappear).

I think you are overreacting to the plain facts I state. (A treatment of online user content that is common, usual, standard, unexceptional, across the internet).

Just how far WG employees go with the store*retrieve*delete* edit*use* permissions we agree to with the EULA, and what they actually do with them, well that is as usual, up to them. Tinfoil hats are unnecessary, common sense will do.

 

 

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Sometimes i request the log of chat entries that got me my chat bans.  I print them out and hang them on the wall in frames like plaques of honor. 

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Assume EVERYTHING you type on the internet...in game...in forums...etc. is saved FOREVER.

Also assume that just because you operate with a persona, if someone (with the proper tools) really wants to find the REAL you...they can.  And they can associate all of what you have posted with the real you.  

Ergo, anything you say in chat or post in the forum can be associated with the real you and shared with the entire world.  

Think about that the next time you go on a tirade online or in chat.

 

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You have a record of battle chats too, saved in either your .wowsreplay or .log files.  mxstat can retrieve them.

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53 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Assume EVERYTHING you type on the internet...in game...in forums...etc. is saved FOREVER.

Also assume that just because you operate with a persona, if someone (with the proper tools) really wants to find the REAL you...they can.  And they can associate all of what you have posted with the real you.  

Ergo, anything you say in chat or post in the forum can be associated with the real you and shared with the entire world.  

Think about that the next time you go on a tirade online or in chat.

 

 

Indeed.  Anyone who has been on the Internet for any length of time should expect this and those of us who have seen the technology come into being and grow accept that just about everything on the Net is being recorded by somebody.  Be it a chat admin, an intel bot from a government that is just soaking up anything unencrypted in hopes there is something there they can use against another government, a corporate bot doing the same thing for corporate purposes, an advertising algorithm that is looking for key words that it can flag the user for later marketing targeting, or any of a half dozen other interests that want that information for their own purposes.

 

If people have a hard time understanding that this is not a difficult thing, I would ask them to go write a 50-page Wordpad document that is just a conversation between two fictional people.  Save that, go find the document, and compare how much memory that file takes compared to the size of your hard drive.  Then consider that that can be compressed further to a fraction of the readable size.  Yeah, it's very doable.

 

The trick is, having the entire Library of Congress open to you doesn't do much good if you don't know where the single sentence you need is, and only have an hour to find it.  Even with sifting bots, that data takes time to read by a person who can decide if it's anything worthwhile, and while they are reading, even more is piling up.

 

So, while I don't doubt everything you do on the net is recorded someplace, unless there is a good reason, there simply isn't time or incentive for anyone to actually bother to look at those recordings most of the time.  To put is bluntly, the vast majority of us aren't worth the time.

 

However, do something that makes it worthwhile for someone with the access to go dig up that recording and no one should be surprised that it's all there in digital bits.

 

 

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12 hours ago, dDangerZone said:

Some time ago, in response to a ticket that I sent, WG answered me something that caught my attention: In WG's response it said that they store ALL CHATS of all players at all times... That there is a file, so to speak, in which all the words written by one in the chat are saved ... I remembered this because I wanted to report a real cancer and I could not find the replay ... I sent a ticket but they told me that without replay they cannot take action on it ... So how true can it be to "archive all the written words of each player from the first to the last" ... Do you all think it is possible ???, or is it just something to scare and try to control a little those attacks of sudden stupidity that some players suffer ???

Yes we keep chat logs.

The reason they need the replays is so they can find a specific line or word that you might be talking about.

Remember that a person has to dig to find this stuff and they are literally digging through hundreds of thousands of battles worth of chat logs, so just mentioning a player and event isn't necessarily enough.

-Hapa

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59 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

So, while I don't doubt everything you do on the net is recorded someplace, unless there is a good reason, there simply isn't time or incentive for anyone to actually bother to look at those recordings most of the time.  To put is bluntly, the vast majority of us aren't worth the time.

However, do something that makes it worthwhile for someone with the access to go dig up that recording and no one should be surprised that it's all there in digital bits.

This is the key.  It's all there, but no one really cares about you.  Until....until you do something famous...or become famous...by intent or by accident. Then the search begins.  Now people care.  And the more famous you are...or perhaps the more famous whatever you did was...you become a gold mine.  Well, not you specifically, but EVERYTHING you've ever said or done online becomes a gold mine.  And the miners are going to mine...because now that data is worth something.  And the more racy, revealing, defaming, or (if your actions upset a group) damaging...the more it's worth.  And the miners will pay for it.  Money has a way of overcoming any privacy agreements...any non disclosure agreement...someone who has it or can get it..will provide it.  

And they get to cherry pick what they want in order to destroy you.  Someone might have 1,000,000 things that are good and wholesome.  But the ten that look bad.  Those are the ten that get plastered on the front page of every newspaper in the world.  The million good things you've done...no one cares.  The ten deliciously salacious...oh yeah...that is what will define you in the eyes of the world forevermore.

Think before you post folks.  Think.

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12 hours ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

was an 07 div. It was back when Graf Zep was being tested or in an OP state. The Graf Zep 07 player destroyed a WG employee immediately at the start of the match and typed "enjoy, WG." Then all 3 guys in the div were given bans and the WG employee justified it by going through their chat logs to pull an excuse for the bans. Pretty sure the higher ups reversed the bans and apologized for it.

Wow! Now, that is messed up. Glad it was cleared up eventually.

 

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In Steam games some chat logs in multiplayer were brought up as evidence in a prosecution at trial not too long ago. Usually when they capture so and so's computers and take it away to search for evidence etc they will be able to know which game chats to hunt for the offending words whatever it may be if it can be used against the person being tried.

Everything typed online is forever starting with your ISP.

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Good thing there is no dirt on me, nope. Never been frustrated at people online. A squeaky clean history here folks.

In other news, this is pretty much to be expected in a lot of games, I've seen it everywhere. It does bring up the question, where is the line in retro-actively banning someone for something they've said in the past? Obviously the case of finding dirt as an excuse to ban was wrong but I assume it's just in the hands of WG judgement and discretion.

 

Again, infallible person speaking here so I wouldn't know what it's like to have such a history with problematic language.

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16 hours ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

it was an 07 div. It was back when Graf Zep was being tested or in an OP state. The Graf Zep 07 player destroyed a WG employee immediately at the start of the match and typed "enjoy, WG." Then all 3 guys in the div were given bans and the WG employee justified it by going through their chat logs to pull an excuse for the bans. Pretty sure the higher ups reversed the bans and apologized for it.

I do believe it was reversed on 2 of them but not the 3rd...at least after 1 of them started a thread about it.

The 3rd 1 might have eventually had it reversed also but I know at 1 point they had only reversed 2 of them...I didn't keep up with it after that point though.

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