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DevilD0g

battleship play is broken

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2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

flamu demonstrates the way to use a battleship 

 

Edited by DevilD0g
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How did I get 2 Dreadnoughts last night????

And 1 solo cap in my JB....

Not all BB play passive

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You can find potatoes in all the ship types.  It's annoying to see something like BBs hiding, or being too far being than they need to be (unless something like Champagne, Slava who are built for that kind of fight).  But you can see bad play in Cruisers, Destroyers, even Carriers also.

 

A bad concealment Cruiser going into the cap at the start has no business being there to get spotted and blapped, yet I saw that happen too many times, or sailing broadside to a bunch of reds at easy gun range, getting deleted.

Or seeing something like Spotting Aircraft Des Moines :Smile_facepalm:

I've seen stupid things like Destroyers being an "Escort" for a Carrier in the backline, or spotting too many enemy DDs in a cap as well as a Radar Cruiser backing them up, yet he still goes in.

Even in the RTS CV days I saw my team's Carriers feeding all their planes to AA Monsters like Atlanta, Cleveland, Minotaur, Worcester, Jean Bart, etc.  Losing wave after wave of planes and never getting the memo to do something else instead of deplaning himself for zero gain.  Seeing OP Carriers of the day like Saipan, Kaga, etc. deplane themselves from horrible use of their aircraft.  To the point that your team's CV has made himself as good as dead since he no longer has planes.

 

Bad play can be found anywhere.  Co-op.  Randoms.  Ranked.  Any ship.  We are even now in an era of the game where Stalingrad has been in the game long enough where even a Potato can acquire her and make her look bad.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Hang on, you want players to play more aggressively in BBs so your solution is to take AWAY their heals? You know that would just encourage them to camp more because now they can't repair HP lost to pushing?


Sniping BBs is an issue, but that's actually more a player problem and the proliferation of high DPM cruisers. Taking away heals would make it far, far worse.

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Stalingrad has been in the game long enough where even a Potato can acquire here and make her look bad.

:cap_wander_2:

sdsdsdf.gif.87cf81f8adb81f2c6478265a99ee048d.gif

Even if I had the steel, that's not a ship for this potato. :cap_cool:

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1 hour ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

The problem is fires.  It is just way too easy to set a fire and they do way too much damage.  Also it isn't about a single fire, it is the multiple fires.   Last night I was playing one of my BBs.  Within a couple minutes of being spotted, I got lit up by a cruiser.  2 fires on the first hit.  I damage con'ed of course and tried to get unspotted.  About 15 seconds later, another fire....then another fire......then another fire....all in rapid secession and no damage con....went from a full health BB to practically no health in maybe 2 minutes flat due to having 5 fires started on me in like 1 minute flat.   That isn't very much fun so you do what you need to do and if that means hiding behind an island so you don't get immolated in flames instantly, whelp, that is what you do.

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2 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

The problem is fires.  It is just way too easy to set a fire and they do way too much damage.  Also it isn't about a single fire, it is the multiple fires.   Last night I was playing one of my BBs.  Within a couple minutes of being spotted, I got lit up by a cruiser.  2 fires on the first hit.  I damage con'ed of course and tried to get unspotted.  About 15 seconds later, another fire....then another fire......then another fire....all in rapid secession and no damage con....went from a full health BB to practically no health in maybe 2 minutes flat due to having 5 fires started on me in like 1 minute flat.   That isn't very much fun so you do what you need to do and if that means hiding behind an island so you don't get immolated in flames instantly, whelp, that is what you do.

I LOL'd.  Pretty funny.

I have never seen a battleship destroyed in two minutes due exclusively to fires.  This is either an embellishment, or there are parts of this you left out for effect.

In your battleship, you do know it is completely possible for you to erase a cruiser in one salvo?  Even if the cruiser doesn't show you broadside, you can devastate him/her with properly aimed shots and just a tad of RNG.

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1 hour ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

My wife has a friend, she (wife's friend) went to the gynecologist, the Dr. Prescribed her some suppositories and a cream (for a mycosis) and told her that the husband should also follow the threatment. Some days later, she was complaining to my wife the "pills" were not really helpful, and tasted really sour, her husband who was sitting beside her nodded in agreement saying they tasted horrible...

I politely commented maybe it wasn't the suppositories that didn't work, it was probably an operator error.

Just don't blame the poor Battleship, it has no fault on who is sitting behind the keyboard.

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battleships dont take a lot of damage from fires that cant be repaired unless your low health.

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1 hour ago, Midnitewolf said:

The problem is fires.  It is just way too easy to set a fire and they do way too much damage.  Also it isn't about a single fire, it is the multiple fires.   Last night I was playing one of my BBs.  Within a couple minutes of being spotted, I got lit up by a cruiser.  2 fires on the first hit.  I damage con'ed of course and tried to get unspotted.  About 15 seconds later, another fire....then another fire......then another fire....all in rapid secession and no damage con....went from a full health BB to practically no health in maybe 2 minutes flat due to having 5 fires started on me in like 1 minute flat.   That isn't very much fun so you do what you need to do and if that means hiding behind an island so you don't get immolated in flames instantly, whelp, that is what you do.

If you got toasted in 2 minutes it wasn't just 1 cruiser lighting you up, sounds like you overextended and got cross fired to port.

 

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The quantity of islands encourages people to play like a naval version of paint-ball.  Taking cover and pew-pew-pew-ing at opposing team's players.

Remove islands, so that the "ocean" map gets played more often and "camping" can only be temporarily done behind the sinking hull of another ship.

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I felt click baited... BB play is broken, but not for the reasons stated...

Its all WG's fault for making the BB class purpose, to be the king DMG dealer's in the match...

IF the fatsos fail to produce, no other ship class can make up the deficit.

Its the fundamental flaw with the game's purpose for each class..

Oh well, it is what it is.

Edited by Navalpride33

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2 hours ago, Nutaz said:

Some people are just SCARED; even in a video game.

You die early in a stupid manner then your fun is over and you aren't earning credits and xps anymore.

 

This isn't Call of Duty where you respawn and are immediately back in the action again in the same match.

 

Die early in WoWS.  You can actually lose credits.

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When I get stuck in a cross fire in my New Mexico and know I made a big mistake, it still usually takes at least 3 min to kill me with HE spam, overmatching AP, torps etc..

 

My general rule is: see many HE spammers shooting you = no damage control

only damage control when you are out of range/ behind cover or when you are burnt to 50% health with many fires

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Heals are far from being the main reason of coward battleships, BBs stay as far away as posible for the very same reason cruisers and DDs hide and that is becouse offence is much better tham defence.

HE and fires:  HE does not care about angles and BBs can be easily farmed by shooting the superstructure wich has like 80% of the ships health before becoming saturated. To rub salt on the wound we have fires a mechanic that apply a 0.3% max health per second degeneration. sure it may not look like a big deal but multiple fires stack and they are easy to start so having a permanent 0.6-1.2 health degen sucks, Using damage control while under attack is a waste since the fires will be started again the moment it wears off  

Torpedo walls: at long range torpedos are not a big problem, most dont have the range to get past 13km and even those with long range wont be a big problem becouse the spread at those distances give some room to dodge, Torpedo walls from close range are a complete diferent monster since there is little to no real room left betweem each torpedo

 

the final nail on agresive gameplay coffin is main guns accuracy and range, given the maps we are in ships have way to much range and accuracy, some ships can literaly sit behind an island close to the center of the map and cover all 3 caps :Smile_facepalm:

 

if you want ships to be less passive then you need to convince WG to promote agresive gameplay, things like buffing secondary related modules/skill so a fully speced secondary build is something more than a floating meme to reworking some skills to heavily favour close range combat like for instance making concealment expert much stronger but with a large penalty to main guns and torpedos  range.

Edited by pepe_trueno
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11 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

Excellent troll sir, touche.

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12 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

sure, take away the heals right after you take away all damage from fires and flooding. No heals on BBs no damage over time. Fun and engaging!!!! 

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12 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

I LOL'd.  Pretty funny.

I have never seen a battleship destroyed in two minutes due exclusively to fires.  This is either an embellishment, or there are parts of this you left out for effect.

Yeah, 5 full burns would almost do it, but he DCed 2 fires immediately.

3 full burns would take just over half his HP.

And that's full burns. If a T6 or up BB has a full 60 second burn time, that's on the player.

It's almost identical to the players who complain about planes, but don't put any resources into AA. I say almost, because the steps you can take to reduce burn time work 100% of the time, and are not influenced by the skill of the opponent.

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13 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

battleships dont take a lot of damage from fires that cant be repaired unless your low health.

To be fair, it's not about whether or not you can repair the fire damage, it's whether you can repair it fast enough to not have your lower HP get you blapped.

Something like Georgia, no problem, because your heal cooldown is short. A regular BB, if you have to repair 2 simultaneous fires, will take 140 seconds to repair 60 seconds worth of damage. If you can't disengage, you'll never catch up.

The disengagement is what I believe some people are having problems with. If you're prone to stationary/reverse bow-tanking, or afraid to risk your citadel in a turn, well, you're basically refusing to disengage, and setting yourself up to get burned to the waterline.

IOW, if you play that way, fire is going to be your #1 nemesis, and you ought to spec accordingly.

I rarely stop moving, and using rudder shift in Slot 4 instead of the burn time reduction, BoS and (sometimes) burn time reduction signals, and not using FP, fire is not a major issue for me.

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15 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

The complaint: A few BB players are not playing their BB's as the OP thinks they should.

The solution: To punish all BB players by removing the repair party, which would, without a doubt, cause more BB's to hid making matters worse and also creating another imbalance in the game.

IMO not using the grey cells, as Hercule Poirot might say, is the cause of such a foolish solution.

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4 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

if you want ships to be less passive then you need to convince WG to promote agresive gameplay, things like buffing secondary related modules/skill so a fully speced secondary build is something more than a floating meme to reworking some skills to heavily favour close range combat like for instance making concealment expert much stronger but with a large penalty to main guns and torpedos  range.

  You have to be careful though. If you incentivise a particular form of play, you can obsolete entire lines that depend on a different form.

It's like in WoT, they tried to do the same thing, and in doing so, they made German tanks much less viable, and the Russian tanks more so. You want to encourage them to get closer, not force it, or artificially penalise people for staying further out.

What I think would help, though, is some kind of penalty for sitting still. 

10 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You die early in a stupid manner then your fun is over and you aren't earning credits and xps anymore.

I think the issue is that many players see it as binary. Move up and die, or stay hidden and live.

I don't adhere to that, because I know from experience there's a spectrum in between.

Sure, you could get blapped if you move up, but you could also just take some degree of damage. Good players can assess that risk. As not a good player, I leave a lot to chance.

But it works out ok often enough that I don't feel I need to change my ways.

It's like smoking. Smoking causes lung cancer, but you can 

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16 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

2 games in a row i was in where battleships hid again behind islands or just sat there with cruisers and let the enemy bb alone cap.  its time to take away heals for battleships  they dont use them hiding behind mountains and give them to Destroyers.

if they could shoot then they wouldnt get near the cap

the least protected should get the heals and the most protected can do without them

....There is so much wrong in this post that my head is going to explode, honestly ~-~º(@_@;)º~-~

Let me get this straight, you want to TAKE AWAY HEALS FROM THE SHIP CLASS DESIGNED TO TAKE THE HITS FOR THE TEAM? You want to know how FAST a BB will fold to current levels of HE spam, torpedoes, flooding and fires without heals?! I mean unless you're giving BBs a heckuva lot more HP/armor, or REALLY nerfing fires, flooding, HE spam in general, AND boosting power of secondaries across the board so that BBs can actually deal with DDs and smaller ships....then by all means, you can lose the heals! On ALL ships! then EVERYONE will play as far back as humanly possible and we'll get pretty much nowhere. Oh wait, we're already there, because almost everyone is in the "snipe meta" these days.

TL;DR Your suggestion will just make BB play WAYYYYY more passive than it already is. NO ONE will push if they don't have heals, not with the current state of things in WoWs.

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