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Meta_Man

Low tier cv idea

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Hello captains , I think anyone who has seen my videos or knows me knows  I love all classes especially carriers and destroyers.  Along with that I want us all to enjoy this game even the cv haters. I think we would all or most agree low tier games are tough for non cv players right now as in specifically double cv games with really no real AA to speak of. I am meaning tiers 3-4-5 mostly. I am not wanting a cv haters post I am just trying to post ideas that I think would help us all..I propose lowering fire and flooding chance to almost nill on tier ,3,4, surface ships from specifically tier 4 cvs..by raising the torpedo bulges percentage and fire resistance against  tier 4 cvs.....the double cv games won't overwhelm ships as easily without the fire and flood chance..The main goal of lower tier cvs is to get your aiming down and learning your role as a new cv captain...We see lower tier games with bots and I feel a direct reason for this is the double cv games and lack of AA..just my opinions and please consider my ideas before you flame...i want us all to have fun in the end.

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Ya know, I started out typing away, thinking something along this line of thinking might be helpful. 

Then I realized there are a lot of clubbers who operate at those tiers. Any adjustment to carriers to reduce damages would be immediately pounced upon by those clubbers. So then you would be required to do the same to clubbers in those surface ships.. and it just goes on and on and on. 

You also have to remember carrier players still have to grind, so messing with their existing rates of damage would be less than fair to them. 

I don't know if there's an "easy" way to balance it... the only way I can see it happening is to, perhaps, add operations which would draw low tier CV players to those operations. Sort of an overflow plan when the queue gets too full of carriers, off you go to the operation instead of the random match you chose. 

If there are so many players the matches are continually two x two CV matches, it would seem CVs are far more popular than others might imagine. 

It's actually a far more complex issue than first meets the idea. It will be interesting to see where this goes. 

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My main concern is I really don't like the bots in the human games....people are leaving the low tier games.....i think its the double cv games ..i can't blame them..You know I love cvs also but want to keep humans in the lower tiers not moving to bots....i think that will kill the game in the long run.....

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Could work, I only use the Hosho in low tier randoms, which has AP bombs & torpedoes that I don't use on heavily armored targets anyways. Would probably have no impact on Rhine captains either. 

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Put the odd tier cv back in game and implement +1 -1 mm.  The seal clubbers are there because they are good enough to dominate t4 but in a t6 cv facing t8 aa they get wrecked.

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How to fix low tier population? A couple of ideas spring to mind :

  • As mentioned I do believe that the multi-CV per game is one of the explanations. I'm far from a CV lover but understand that players want to play them and have as much right to play them as I (we) do any other ship. As CV start tier is tier IV you're always going to see many players in this class. The problem is, how do you encourage them to move up to the higher tiers and sit there seal clubbing? How about working on an average amount of games required to progress to a tier VI CV and then once that average is reached the earnings and XP gained goes down i.e. eventually you'll end up earning no credits and no XP but still having to pay ship repair costs. Sounds harsh that's true but it may encourage the clubbers to quit playing the low tier CV's
  • When you get your CV for a new line (tier IV) have a "free training room" where you have to play "X" amount of games against bot surface ships until you can play in PvP. This will allow newer CV players to get used to the capabilities of the new CV before being unleashed into PvP and perhaps also stop the overflow of CV's in queue when a new line is added. You would still earn the same amount of XP and credits as you would in PvP for these "X" amount of battles which will help you progress to tier VI
  • I have the ultimate "clubbers" wet-dream. A Fujin, Kamikaze and Kamikaze R and loved playing them but with an AA rating of 2 (yes, that's a two), basically the captain in a swivel chair with a revolver .. do I need to finish the sentence?

Low population of other ship classes/playing bots

  • As we all know it's real easy to progress up a line and out of the low tiers once you have a couple of higher tier ships by using camo's and flags. How about making more missions that can be completed (like the current one) in low tier ships. It'll give new players rewards so they don't feel like they have to speed up the lines to actually start earning rewards (e.g. daily missions) and give other players a reason to actually play some low tier ships. I have a number of low tiered premium ships that I've earned/won/bought but rarely play them due to the multi-CV games and the feeling of being a seal clubber for doing it (yes, even with my poor stats you can beat up on seals)
  • Have some competitive play at the lower tiers i.e. tier 3-4-5 ranked sprint
  • Is RB adding to the misery felt by newer players as there are some that don't FXP back to tier VI/VII/VIII/IX/X and play the lower tiers. Although the hope is that we see a higher population in  the lower tiers hw many new players want to be clubbed by experienced players?
  • It seems to me that WG encourages players to shoot through the lines to get to high tiers as the competitive/rewards/missions mostly have to be completed in high tiers and many think if they get a bigger ship (tier X) they'll have a chance as they don't get forced into tier V vs tier VII etc.  In a tier X you're always top tier

There isn't an easy fix to the low population of the lower tiers but I'm almost certain the multi-CV games don't help. I know I have encouraged a number of friends to give WoWs a try and out of 6 friends only 1 is still playing. 2 stopped playing as they said it was like "World of Arty" (they are WoT players and didn't like the slower pace being hit from the other side of the map) the other 3 stopped playing as they felt helpless against CV and got frustrated with it .. I'm not trying to make this a CV haters post but the truth is the truth, sorry CV guys.

TL/DR: Multi-CV games dissuades low tier play, couple of idea's for a fixes ...... just bloody read it!!

 

Good luck all!! :Smile_honoring:

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Let me be clear... let me put forth my belief is randoms are for people, not bots. Entering this game nowadays, without having had prior experience, I'd just figure this is the way it is. 

I think it could be a bit overwhelming with so many factors a beginning player must keep in mind when they play at the "easiest" level of game play. I don't know if I would start this game in these days. 

Think about everything we all take for granted, believing everyone knows about it all; the strategies, the game mechanics, on and on. 

If a safe space at T4 and below works, if it encourages people to move up in the game, then I would support such tactics. If all it did was encourage seal clubbing then no, I wouldn't be supportive. 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Let me be clear... let me put forth my belief is randoms are for people, not bots. Entering this game nowadays, without having had prior experience, I'd just figure this is the way it is. 

I think it could be a bit overwhelming with so many factors a beginning player must keep in mind when they play at the "easiest" level of game play. I don't know if I would start this game in these days. 

Think about everything we all take for granted, believing everyone knows about it all; the strategies, the game mechanics, on and on. 

If a safe space at T4 and below works, if it encourages people to move up in the game, then I would support such tactics. If all it did was encourage seal clubbing then no, I wouldn't be supportive. 

I see where you're going but that safe place is coop..you know I love cvs but want low tiers populated with humans is all. Its the double cv that kills the population i think....but anyway I hope they figure it out....not trying to ruffle feathers but throw out ideas that everyone can live with.

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10 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

I see where you're going but that safe place is coop..you know I love cvs but want low tiers populated with humans is all. Its the double cv that kills the population i think....but anyway I hope they figure it out....not trying to ruffle feathers but throw out ideas that everyone can live with.

Oh no feathers ruffled... maybe it's simply a matter of reducing damage when the queue demands four CVs per battle but leaving them alone when it needs only two per battle? 

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21 hours ago, Meta_Man said:

Hello captains , I think anyone who has seen my videos or knows me knows  I love all classes especially carriers and destroyers.  Along with that I want us all to enjoy this game even the cv haters. I think we would all or most agree low tier games are tough for non cv players right now as in specifically double cv games with really no real AA to speak of. I am meaning tiers 3-4-5 mostly. I am not wanting a cv haters post I am just trying to post ideas that I think would help us all..I propose lowering fire and flooding chance to almost nill on tier ,3,4, surface ships from specifically tier 4 cvs..by raising the torpedo bulges percentage and fire resistance against  tier 4 cvs.....the double cv games won't overwhelm ships as easily without the fire and flood chance..The main goal of lower tier cvs is to get your aiming down and learning your role as a new cv captain...We see lower tier games with bots and I feel a direct reason for this is the double cv games and lack of AA..just my opinions and please consider my ideas before you flame...i want us all to have fun in the end.

Sea Raptor has the best idea. 

Get rid of T4 CV and start at t6.  

T4 has no fighter no aa its boring for everyone.

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37 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Sea Raptor has the best idea. 

Get rid of T4 CV and start at t6.  

T4 has no fighter no aa its boring for everyone.

I don't necessarily think thats best either  , the cv captain needs to learn aiming and cv strategy on easy targets,hence low aa but think they shouldn't do as much damage as in double cv multiplied fire flood damage because of damage control party used then attacked by other cv........Or could leave it the way it is but have quicker damage control party,I like that one to......

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59 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

I don't necessarily think thats best either  , the cv captain needs to learn aiming and cv strategy on easy targets,hence low aa but think they shouldn't do as much damage as in double cv multiplied fire flood damage because of damage control party used then attacked by other cv........Or could leave it the way it is but have quicker damage control party,I like that one to......

Wg should lower the amount of XP you need.

Upwards of 100xp is way touch.  Its probably one reason there are so many 2 or 3 cv games.

I have also had 5 or more dd games as well. 

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18 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

Put the odd tier cv back in game and implement +1 -1 mm.  The seal clubbers are there because they are good enough to dominate t4 but in a t6 cv facing t8 aa they get wrecked.

If the odd t came back I think it would solve the MM problem.

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15 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Oh no feathers ruffled... maybe it's simply a matter of reducing damage when the queue demands four CVs per battle but leaving them alone when it needs only two per battle? 

I have also seen a fare number of battles with 5 or more DD.

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Dear @Meta_Man,
I offer the following notions for consideration:

~Enable the fighter-drop for Tier-4 CV's.
~Don't nerf damage or fire or flooding chances. 
   As @Herr_Reitz, mentioned, Tier-4 CV's have to grind and need all the chances & methods to help keep their team afloat by sinking red ships.  The recent global nerf to CV AP bombs hurt everyone, I feel.
~Training rooms already exist.  
~Co-op is the next step up from a Training room.
~Random battles provide the most opportunity for XP, credits and CXP, which are not abundant when a player is new. 
   I often had to finance CV costs by playing other ships that earn more per game when I was newer to WOWs.
   I acquire "Back to School" camo's in the Armory (in exchange for coal) to accelerate Captain training (100% bonus to Commander XP).
~Bring back the odd-tiered CV's.  
~Providing opportunities for Tier-4 CV's to participate in Operations would be most welcome.  I'm hoping new operations could be introduced in to WOWs and that operations on hiatus can be brought back.

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13 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Dear @Meta_Man,
I offer the following notions for consideration:

~Enable the fighter-drop for Tier-4 CV's.
~Don't nerf damage or fire or flooding chances. 
   As @Herr_Reitz, mentioned, Tier-4 CV's have to grind and need all the chances & methods to help keep their team afloat by sinking red ships.  The recent global nerf to CV AP bombs hurt everyone, I feel.
~Training rooms already exist.  
~Co-op is the next step up from a Training room.
~Random battles provide the most opportunity for XP, credits and CXP, which are not abundant when a player is new. 
   I often had to finance CV costs by playing other ships that earn more per game when I was newer to WOWs.
   I acquire "Back to School" camo's in the Armory (in exchange for coal) to accelerate Captain training (100% bonus to Commander XP).
~Bring back the odd-tiered CV's.  
~Providing opportunities for Tier-4 CV's to participate in Operations would be most welcome.  I'm hoping new operations could be introduced in to WOWs and that operations on hiatus can be brought back.

I like the incentive to have the new cv captain learn their craft in operations maybe extra xp and silver..so thumbs up wolf :cap_like:..i hope they are actively trying to find a compromise for everyone..you will never make everyone happy but the majority would be nice....and I play all classes so I go with any class but don't want double cvs really either...my wi rates in my tier 4-6 dds aren't hurting (mostly high 50s% mid 60s%)because of cvs but still want a little freedom. To move lol...

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Wg should lower the amount of XP you need.

Upwards of 100xp is way touch.  Its probably one reason there are so many 2 or 3 cv games.

I have also had 5 or more dd games as well. 

Good point jags,I like the operations Incentive wolf brought up also....You still will have clubbers at tier 4 with double cvs though I think....i go down to tier 6 with cvs sometimes but feel too dirty to play tier 4 as a cv.lol...but i play my tier 3-5 surface ships sometimes 

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55 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

Good point jags,I like the operations Incentive wolf brought up also....You still will have clubbers at tier 4 with double cvs though I think....i go down to tier 6 with cvs sometimes but feel too dirty to play tier 4 as a cv.lol...but i play my tier 3-5 surface ships sometimes 

On occasion I'll take a t4 cv out, the occasion being, every t6/8/10 match that day has been like pounding sand. I'll go out for one until I win a match. Then I'll switch to top tier BB rest of the day. 

Kind of like a sip of spring water to rinse away the sour aftertaste of getting mangled in higher tier matches. 

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39 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

On occasion I'll take a t4 cv out, the occasion being, every t6/8/10 match that day has been like pounding sand. I'll go out for one until I win a match. Then I'll switch to top tier BB rest of the day. 

Kind of like a sip of spring water to rinse away the sour aftertaste of getting mangled in higher tier matches. 

Lol,I'd figure you'd be crushing tier 6 and 8...tier 10 can be tough against try hard divisions 

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1 hour ago, Meta_Man said:

Good point jags,I like the operations Incentive wolf brought up also....You still will have clubbers at tier 4 with double cvs though I think....i go down to tier 6 with cvs sometimes but feel too dirty to play tier 4 as a cv.lol...but i play my tier 3-5 surface ships sometimes 

 

34 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

On occasion I'll take a t4 cv out, the occasion being, every t6/8/10 match that day has been like pounding sand. I'll go out for one until I win a match. Then I'll switch to top tier BB rest of the day. 

Kind of like a sip of spring water to rinse away the sour aftertaste of getting mangled in higher tier matches. 

With the recent German CV event, the only German CV I was lucky enough to obtain (for a couple of weeks at least) was the Tier-4 Rhein.  
So, there I was, in the tier-4 match-making with a brand new CV and Commander (had like 3 skill points or something, I think?).  So, I had to FXP or grind that Commander to 10 skill points.
Also, as someone who plays all available ship types and who likes to stay current on CV's news and happenings, I simply had to play the ship for "research & evaluation purposes" and to keep my skills sharp.
As I write this, I've got the Rhein, Weser, Erich Loewenhardt and Graf Zeppelin in my port (the GZ was acquired long before the German CV event, though).  A. Parseval is next, although today I added it to my PTS account.

More recently, the Five Epochs of the Navy campaign became available.  So, it was back to the low-tier ships (Tier-2 through Tier-4) to complete the campaign directives.

Point is, there are plenty of legit reasons to play the low-tier ships, including just for the fun of it.  :Smile_glasses:

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27 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

With the recent German CV event, the only German CV I was lucky enough to obtain (for a couple of weeks at least) was the Tier-4 Rhein.  
So, there I was, in the tier-4 match-making with a brand new CV and Commander (had like 3 skill points or something, I think?).  So, I had to FXP or grind that Commander to 10 skill points.
Also, as someone who plays all available ship types and who likes to stay current on CV's news and happenings, I simply had to play the ship for "research & evaluation purposes" and to keep my skills sharp.
As I write this, I've got the Rhein, Weser, Erich Loewenhardt and Graf Zeppelin in my port (the GZ was acquired long before the German CV event, though).  A. Parseval is next, although today I added it to my PTS account.

More recently, the Five Epochs of the Navy campaign became available.  So, it was back to the low-tier ships (Tier-2 through Tier-4) to complete the campaign directives.

Point is, there are plenty of legit reasons to play the low-tier ships, including just for the fun of it.  :Smile_glasses:

I am not judging I am just saying I feel dirty,lol.....my tier 6s Ark Royal and Loewenhardt are in the 60%'s so I wouldnt want to go lower is all.

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I am all for getting rid of TIer IV CVs....  I may be one of the few that believes at that tier it was a total waste.   So yea I absolutely hated playing a CV in that tier as it was like pulling teeth.   What fun or experience do you gain when most of the ships cause very little damage if at all on your planes ?   

What is in it for someone to do what boils down to seal clubbing  in Tier IV ?   No wonder for the amount of rage against the CVs in that tier.

PS:   I say add you cant have more than X number of games in a Tier IV CV in PVP.  

         

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So folks... what would happen if they just said "Hey... you know those tier 4 CVs we built? Well about them.. We uh... well, starting next month they will all magically become T5 carriers. All other carriers will stay the same. Just no mo Tier 4 CVS... 

The new CVs will play 5/4 tiers only. 

Would that help anything? 
 

4 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

With the recent German CV event, the only German CV I was lucky enough to obtain (for a couple of weeks at least) was the Tier-4 Rhein.  

The same was true for me as well. But having seen enough of the MvR play... and having that sale coupon for the GZ... well I went nuts grinding, grinding and grinding. I now have all the German CVs.

GZ, ELo are favorites but yea, the MvR... what a blast if your team is any good at all. MvR is what carriers were meant to be. 

My concern with the upcoming commander skill changes bugged me so much I focused on grinding coal, coal, coal and yesterday, I picked up the German commander J as I call him. Nobody has hinted a thing about possibilities... but I think when commander skills get changed, something might happen with those special commanders. Price increases or perhaps skill changes... or even removals. 

I don't know but now I have that commander, now beginning a point grind. But shoot, I know if any of my commanders get upskilled when the changes come, it's gonna be Commander J. 

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