Munchen

[madgiecool]

 

 

Available both in-game for dubs, or in the shop.

 

Munchen - home of the Beer fest - yummy

 

 

I expect this will be up on NA after the roll over.

[SteelRain_Rifleman]

2 hours ago, madgiecool said:

 

 

Available both in-game for dubs, or in the shop.

 

Munchen - home of the Beer fest - yummy

 

 

I expect this will be up on NA after the roll over.

Corn flakes and Twinkies will be put on sale at the same time for 12 dollars US a box and 24 dollars US for a box of 12 of the Twinkies. 

Players are responsible for their own "Oreg-ano".

[WM1957]

It is available now.

[UltimateNewbie]

2 hours ago, madgiecool said:

 

 

Available both in-game for dubs, or in the shop.

 

Munchen - home of the Beer fest - yummy

 

 

I expect this will be up on NA after the roll over.

Is it any good?

Alas, I've recently bought the Mainz, so I dont think another German cruiser is in high demand atm...

[Snarky_Wombat]

2 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Is it any good?

Not for $100+ real world bucks it isn't.

[UltimateNewbie]

7 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Not for $100+ real world bucks it isn't.

Fair point.  

[brym7]

6 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Not for $100+ real world bucks it isn't.

Well good think it's really for $35.20 USD for just the ship, and less if you have doubloons in the Armory.

[Ace_04]

18 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Is it any good?

Alas, I've recently bought the Mainz, so I dont think another German cruiser is in high demand atm...

I don't really see what kind of new play this brings to the table that Yorck doesn't already fulfill.

[warheart1992]

Here's one of the first vids on the ship to come out, from Aerroon. In his words, "a Nurnberg that got lost  in tier 7".

 

[custer_14]

1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

I don't really see what kind of new play this brings to the table that Yorck doesn't already fulfill.

Squishier, fast firing 6” gun light cruiser play.

[dimzzy]

1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

I don't really see what kind of new play this brings to the table that Yorck doesn't already fulfill.

Also T7 is not really that exciting these days...

[contag10n]

It should be good for Ops, where armor is less important and rapid fire means more credits to farm.........

Oh. Nevermind.

[zubalkabir]

Okay, I'm figuring there has to be some hidden feature that is not immediately obvious, but will somehow be abused by the first very good player to figure it out, leading to immediate pleas to "nerf the OP beast."  But I really can't see it right now.  It looks like a Nurnberg with 8 guns instead of 9 (although they reload in 5 seconds), and 8 torpedoes instead of 12.  It's fast at 36 knots (37.8 with a flag).  Looks like it has a good turning radius, and the rudder shift can go down to 6.64. seconds with the module.  Hit points are not spectacular, especially for a ship that can be thrown to the tier IX wolves.  Concealment can go down to 9.4 km, which is good, but not spectacular.  I didn't look closely at the armor layout in-game before I left the house this morning, so maybe it's got some hidden advantage there.   

[_BlackHawk4_]

I was shooting at one an hour ago, if you sail broadside within Battleship gun range, you're going to have a bad day.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Munchen is a weird mix for better or for worse.  She is not your typical German Cruiser.

 

TLDR:  Munchen's a Stealthy Glass Cannon.  I'll go onto saying she's a USN CL with a German skin, but with High Pen German 150mm guns, and German CL gun range, and Atlanta, Atago-like stealth.

She is not Mainz nor Nurnberg in Tier VII form.

Expand below for details.

Spoiler

 

Unlike German Cruisers which are typically straddled with bad concealment ranges, she's very stealthy at 9.4km detection range in Full Stealth Build.  Tier VI Nurnberg has 11km with Full Stealth, Tier VII CA Yorck has 12.1 km, and Mainz in Tier VIII can be brought down to 12km.  Tier VII CL Atlanta has 9.59km with Stealth Build, and Munchen is still a bit sneakier than her.  Atago in Tier VIII has 9.33km with Stealth Build.

 

Damage output may not look impressive with 150mm x8 when many of her peers are 152mm x12 in Tier VII.  Helena has 152mm x15.  Gun range is good at 16.6km.  Munchen however has 5 seconds base reload time for her guns while many of her peers are around 8 seconds since they have more guns.  She also inherits 38mm default HE Pen.  Meanwhile Helena and every other normal 152mm HE shell in Tier VII has 25mm default HE Pen, and if IFHE was taken, it only improves to 31mm Pen while gutting their Fire Chances.

Fire Chance by default is 8%

 

Munchen if taking only DE has 38mm HE Pen with 10% Fire Chance.

Helena if taking IFHE and DE has 31mm HE Pen with 8% Fire Chance.

Helena if not taking IFHE but only took DE, has a mere 25mm HE Pen with 14% Fire Chance.

 

Offensively things are looking pretty good with Munchen... HOWEVER... If you think she has Tier VI Nurnberg or Tier VIII Premium Mainz 150mm shell flight characteristics, which aren't the same BTW, or that Munchen's are somewhere in the middle... It isn't.  Her shells are floatier than either German CL.  Matter of fact, they're floatier than Helena's shells.

This Artillery Chart has Munchen, Schors, Nurnberg, Mainz, and Helena.

I included different tier Nurnberg and Mainz because it needs to be shown how different Munchen's shells behave in flight.

Schors and the RU 152mm gun is still the standard I hold for all similar sized CL guns in terms of shell flight characteristics:  Low arcing, fast flying shells.

Helena shows the floaty USN CL shell characteristics many should be familiar with... Munchen is floatier.

It must be stated again that if you're expecting Nurnberg, Mains shell flight behavior, Munchen isn't that.

 

The way I see it, Munchen can be annoying with her fast firing 150mm guns and will regularly Pen targets like Mainz, Nurnberg do if she can hit.  But she doesn't have the shell flight behavior that Mainz does, and I know a bunch of guys got Mainz.  If anything, Munchen can adopt USN CL Island Humping Tactics while having German CL gun range and German CL HE Pen capability.  Helena only has 14.6km gun range, Munchen has 16.6km.  Unlike all her other Tier VII CL peers with weak HE Pen, she has 38mm HE Pen and will farm even the deck armor of all High Tier USN BBs she encounters.

 

Torpedoes!  Munchen only has 2x4, CA Yorck this same tier has 4x3.  Like other German Cruisers, the torps reload fast and the range is 6km.  Standard fare.  When I saw the torpedo launchers weren't deck mounted, I had a concern the launch angles would be limited, but they're fine.

However, if you think you can torpedo rush like Yorck, Mainz can, think again.

 

"You said she's a Glass Cannon..."

Oh yeah.  Her exterior armor is above average but not anything that special.

Mid Tiered CL protection is woeful, Munchen is no different.  Overmatch is a serious thing.  If the AP shell is large enough versus the armor section that is struck, there are no bounce checks.

The 16mm bow can be Overmatched by 229mm or larger AP.  So Graf Spee, Scharnhorst 283mm AP, Super Cruiser 305mm AP, and of course BBs with 356mm or larger guns can easily Overmatch the bow.

The 25mm deck can be Overmatched by 358mm or larger AP.  Basically 15" armed BBs like Bismarck, Gneisenau, Monarch, Warspite, etc. will Overmatch the deck.

The strange part is the 20mm upper hull plating.  According to my math, 20mm x 14.3 = 286, so 287mm or larger AP is required to Overmatch that specific section.

 

The exterior armor isn't the problem... It's the Citadel.  Below are IMO, the 3 worst CLs in Tier VII in terms of exposed Citadels:

Schors - Long, tall, exposed Citadel.

Atlanta - Not a long Citadel but tall and exposed.

Munchen

Note the Citadel armor angles:

Aux Room Armor + Citadel Armor

If you show broadside, you got a 50mm belt armor, behind that 50mm angled plating, and then the last layer of protection, 35mm angled Citadel armor to save you.  You're going to get smashed.

 

HP?  She's 30.2k, on the low side.  I think only Atlanta is worse at 27.5k HP.  Helena has 33.3k HP, Schors has 32.2k, Fiji has 31.4k.  Belfast has 35.7k.

German CLs & CAs tend to be similar in needing the same skills, so you can swap in your CA captains just fine.  IFHE isn't needed with German CLs.

[ArIskandir]

Lol, now we have the Bayern-Munchen combo... that's OP

[SkullCowboy_60]

48 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Munchen is a weird mix for better or for worse.  She is not your typical German Cruiser.

TLDR:  Munchen's a Stealthy Glass Cannon.  I'll go onto saying she's a USN CL with a German skin, but with High Pen German 150mm guns, and German CL gun range, and Atlanta, Atago-like stealth.

She is not Mainz nor Nurnberg in Tier VII form.

Thanks for the writeup! On the maybe list somewhere down the line. Maybe.

[Nevermore135]

56 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Unlike German Cruisers which are typically straddled with bad concealment ranges, she's very stealthy at 9.4km detection range in Full Stealth Build.  Tier VI Nurnberg has 11km with Full Stealth, Tier VII CA Yorck has 12.1 km, and Mainz in Tier VIII can be brought down to 13.36km.  Tier VII CL Atlanta has 9.59km with Stealth Build, and Munchen is still a bit sneakier than her.  Atago in Tier VIII has 9.33km with Stealth Build.

With a full stealth build, Mainz has a surface detection range of 12.02km. She has poor concealment, but it’s not that poor.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

I just came to a hilarious realization.

 

Atlanta has 4.8 seconds base reload time, though it improves to 4.3 if BFT is taken.

Munchen has 5 seconds.

 

Atlanta if she takes AFT, her gun range improves to 13.34km.

Munchen has 16.6km gun range right out of the box.

 

Munchen out of the box has better range and very close to the reload of even BFT / AFT traited Atlanta.

 

I already said before that Munchen has floaty shells, similar to Helena, but Atlanta's are even floatier.

 

Atlanta also has 21mm default HE Pen, 26 if IFHE is taken, but doing the latter route kills her Fire Chances.

Munchen has 38mm HE Pen by default.

 

As an Island Camping Menace, Munchen outstrips Atlanta in range for slightly slower ROF.  She also gets a killer 38mm HE Pen.

 

She's Stealthier than Atlanta, faster than Atlanta, and can spam from behind islands better than Atlanta.  She even has superior torpedoes than Atlanta.  Both ships are squishy.  Only thing ATL has is Radar.

5 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

With a full stealth build, Mainz has a surface detection range of 12.02km.

You're right, I'll fix my post.

[Cruxdei]

5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I just came to a hilarious realization.

 

Atlanta has 4.8 seconds base reload time, though it improves to 4.3 if BFT is taken.

Munchen has 5 seconds.

 

Atlanta if she takes AFT, her gun range improves to 13.34km.

Munchen has 16.6km gun range right out of the box.

 

I already said before that Munchen has floaty shells, similar to Helena.

 

Atlanta also has 21mm default HE Pen, 26 if IFHE is taken, but doing the latter route kills her Fire Chances.

Munchen has 38mm HE Pen by default.

 

As an Island Camping Menace, Munchen outstrips Atlanta in range for slightly slower ROF.  She also gets a killer 38mm HE Pen.

 

She's Stealthier than Atlanta, faster than Atlanta, and can spam from behinds better than Atlanta.  She even has superior torpedoes than Atlanta.  Both ships are squishy.  Only thing ATL has is Radar.

You're right, I'll fix my post.

give munchen a radar and she erased atlanta from existence,looking at it now,atlanta is literally obsolete at everything except DD hunting.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

3 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

give munchen a sonar and she erased atlanta from existence,looking at it now,atlanta is literally obsolete at everything except DD hunting.

Munchen's consumables are DCP / Hydro or DF / Fighter consumables.

2019 and beyond has not been pretty for Atlanta.  At first the CV Rebork took away her once Killer AA.  Then the IFHE / Armor update killed her 127mm gun performance.

[TheGreatBlasto]

4 hours ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Not for $100+ real world bucks it isn't.

$35 for base option.

[TheGreatBlasto]

9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Munchen's consumables are DCP / Hydro or DF / Fighter consumables.

2019 and beyond has not been pretty for Atlanta.  At first the CV Rebork took away her once Killer AA.  Then the IFHE / Armor update killed her 127mm gun performance.

I basically use ATL only in coop and Operations like Narai where she's still pretty good. I just play coop when I need that final <500 points to get the third crate.

[Slimeball91]

7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

2019 and beyond has not been pretty for Atlanta.  At first the CV Rebork took away her once Killer AA.  Then the IFHE / Armor update killed her 127mm gun performance.

And the new captain skill rework won't be kind either, more like a kick to the nuts.  No more BFT or AFT, DE is down to +1%, and PT and AR go up in cost.

[Jolly_Rodgered]

She's the new and improved Atlanta, and we all see how well that turned out. I'll wait and see what the consensus is from the player base before making any decisions. Paying $35 for a ship with so little fanfare seems unwise.