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murder_0ne

Am I the only one excited about the upcoming skill changes?

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So far everything I've seen feedback wise has been universally negative with respect to the captain skill changes. Personally I think it will be great.

Currently we have one set of skills to apply to all ship classes and as such the effective meta is almost identical across all ship classes for skill choices with almost zero variation. It looks to me that the new structure will allow players to further tune the skills to their play styles and get more out of min/max configurations than is currently possible, which is something I really like and I think should be encouraged.

The 21 skill point thing? Good. We need the skill point total to be increased so our configurations can be more granular and specific to the builds that we want. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of change before everything goes live but the huge amount of negativity I've seen thus far is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. So anyway, who else thinks this will be a good change for once?

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I think it's great.  I am looking forward to it.

My one tweak: Enduring should be X% not the 350 hp/tier.  This way it could help BB's and Cruisers as equally as DD's.

I'm not a fan of the 21 points.  It just means more grinding, higher cost to retrain, and those are not the fun aspects of the game to me.  But, its added revenue which probably pays the bills for WG.

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I wouldn't say I'm excited or unhappy either way - we don't yet know exactly what WG is actually going to serve up. I will say that based on history, this feels less the night before shore leave and more the night before the cruise starts. 

Edited by CapnCazuul
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2 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

So far everything I've seen feedback wise has been universally negative with respect to the captain skill changes. Personally I think it will be great.

Currently we have one set of skills to apply to all ship classes and as such the effective meta is almost identical across all ship classes for skill choices with almost zero variation. It looks to me that the new structure will allow players to further tune the skills to their play styles and get more out of min/max configurations than is currently possible, which is something I really like and I think should be encouraged.

The 21 skill point thing? Good. We need the skill point total to be increased so our configurations can be more granular and specific to the builds that we want. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of change before everything goes live but the huge amount of negativity I've seen thus far is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. So anyway, who else thinks this will be a good change for once?

I like the concept, and I think it will make things interesting again, at least for a while.  Eventually, someone will figure out the optimal build for each ship, and then everyone will copy it.  It's unfortunate that switching skills around to test new ideas is prohibitively expensive.  It would be fun to be able to move things around in a counter-intuitive fashion to see what happens.  But not at 300-500 doubloons a pop.  I think the negativity is a combination of:  1.)  people not considering that this is a first draft, and significant changes will happen during testing, and 2.)  not knowing how WG is going to roll this out, and whether or not people who've spent a lot of time grinding a bunch of 19-point commanders are going to have to do a lot more grinding before they start getting EXCP again.  I think a lot of the negativity will (probably) go away once more information is available.

Edited by zubalkabir
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My biggest problem with the changes is that I have 332 ships and a captain for all of them. I reset all of them once before and it is more than time consuming.                        

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2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

My biggest problem with the changes is that I have 332 ships and a captain for all of them. I reset all of them once before and it is more than time consuming.                        

That's the first legit complaint I've heard. Dang man, that is a lot of ships.

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2 minutes ago, Glamorboy said:

I think it's great.  I am looking forward to it.

My one tweak: Enduring should be X% not the 350 hp/tier.  This way it could help BB's and Cruisers as equally as DD's.

I'm not a fan of the 21 points.  It just means more grinding, higher cost to retrain, and those are not the fun aspects of the game to me.  But, its added revenue which probably pays the bills for WG.

I don't have any opinion on tweaks to the skills yet but you kind of hit how I feel on the head.

On one hand, I love the idea and think it is great that they are expanding the skill to allow for more customization while attempting to remove the one path only skill builds that we have now.

However, I just this week managed to get two of my captains to 19 and finally starting to see the benefit of having extra Elite Commander XP to help with retaining and/or training up some captains for some of the lower tiered tech tree ships I have enjoyed.  The added grind of having an additionally 3 points to grind all of which are going to require huge amounts of XP to get is not welcome.  Also paying doubloons to retrain captains has always been way too expensive, now it is going to get worse.

What I don't agree with you on is feeling it is "OK" that it costs more because it pays the bills for WG.  They make plenty of money without having to squeeze its players for even more.  It is kind of like the whole Anchorage thing.  Instead of work hard and we will give you a free ship, it is grind for days and well will give you a "Discount" on a ship. It didn't used to be that way.  I got my Graf Spee through doing directives and I got it FREE but nope, WG realized they could squeeze some money out of us so free got replaced with discount.  I am not opposed to a game making money, on the contrary I know they need to make money to keep the game alive and fun but when it goes beyond that and moves into the territory of greed, that is a problem.  WG has dwelt in greed for a long time now, that needs to be dialed back, not encouraged.

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Whenever WG does something different, someone will always complain. Not hard to find those people since they tend to be vocal.

Keep in mind that the captain skill rework is a work in progress. Many tend to forget this 

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7 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

The 21 skill point thing? Good. We need the skill point total to be increased so our configurations can be more granular and specific to the builds that we want. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of change before everything goes live but the huge amount of negativity I've seen thus far is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. So anyway, who else thinks this will be a good change for once?

Like most things, there is good and bad in this proposed change.  The increased skill points is (mostly) good for the relatively few people that will be able to max out their commander(s).  For the overwhelming majority this change will only separate the haves and have nots even farther (which is what WG wants).  As someone in another discussion said this will likely add another year or more of playing for the average/casual player to attain a maxed out commander.  Sucks to be the new guy.

Cool, we'll get two more points....Then there is the deliberate "inflation" of almost mandatory skills like PT and AR that is meant to burn up those extra two points you'll get.  If you can squeeze out a better build with these new skills, great.  I wouldn't count on being able to do that though.  

This whole thing is a money grab.  I can't ignore that.  WG wants to extend the grind to make players spend more.  Yes, we all understand WG is in business to make money.  But, guess what, I don't play this, or any game, to spend more money. 

We can talk about what the skills are, and how they will work when we're closer to release.  Until then we need to talk about what is wrong, and work towards fixing it before its too late.  I'll be the first to congratulate WG for a job well done, but first they have to do a good job.  We aren't there yet.

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I think it is a great change ... there are some new builds that might not be optimal, but will at least be fun.

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Worked really hard to get my 2 19pt captains.

    Yes I should have more but I love playing yorck, probably more than I should.

     I feel cheated after all that work I have to do it again.

      Also re spec for ifhe change not to long ago, don't like to do it again esp at a cost to cruisers as a whole.

     No not optimistic, this seems like a money grab.

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56 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

So anyway, who else thinks this will be a good change for once?

I like the structure and the multiple parallel build capability. The nature of the skills themselves will no doubt sort itself out over time. What I'm not excited about, because I don't have enough details, is the extra grind that's probably going to be required before we can have captains that generate ECXP again. In fact, that's the big sticking point of this whole damn thing, and the sooner @Hapa_Fodder can convince the devs to provide us with more detail in this matter, the better.

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19 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

What I don't agree with you on is feeling it is "OK" that it costs more because it pays the bills for WG.  They make plenty of money without having to squeeze its players for even more.  

Just FYI, I said "I'm not a fan".

Realistically though, WG is going to do what WG is going to do.  I wasn't a fan of the RB either, and guess what, we now have to re-grind an ENTIRE line of ships to get a UU.

On the scale of things though, it goes from "I'm leaving the game" (orginal RB), to "this is very disappointing" (CV Rework), to "I'm not a fan" (21 pt captains)

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12 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Whenever WG does something different, someone will always complain. Not hard to find those people since they tend to be vocal.

Keep in mind that the captain skill rework is a work in progress. Many tend to forget this 

The captain skills were getting old seems like some changes made skills less that optimal, like DAAF and IFHE. Might be like starting over.

But a WIP, is not 9.11 months away? The different ship builds for one captain might be nice for someone who has several premium ships. And maybe a way to test different builds. I wonder if the respec cost allows changing thr four class builds at the same cost?

There is a penalty for having a big fleet, lots of work to do.

Hope it doesn't go too badly. I liked the reassignment of consumables keys. That seemed to be a universal good thing. 

Now if I can find to key that makes CE four times more effective. :Smile_hiding:

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I'm all for taking another look at commander skills, adding, new ones, rebalancing old ones and putting some more variety to Commander builds. But I would like to see it done gradually, not in one go.

The way the rework is presented, even being obviously WiP and subject to change, is a bit worrying. There are some ships that draw the short stick (cruisers with DD caliber main battery and large cruisers especially), lots of uncertainty on how the jump from 19 to 21 skills will happen, and in general vagueness. And all that to be balanced for release by 0.9.11 according to WG, which is not all that far.

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32 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

What I don't agree with you on is feeling it is "OK" that it costs more because it pays the bills for WG.  They make plenty of money without having to squeeze its players for even more.  It is kind of like the whole Anchorage thing.  Instead of work hard and we will give you a free ship, it is grind for days and well will give you a "Discount" on a ship. It didn't used to be that way.  I got my Graf Spee through doing directives and I got it FREE but nope, WG realized they could squeeze some money out of us so free got replaced with discount.  I am not opposed to a game making money, on the contrary I know they need to make money to keep the game alive and fun but when it goes beyond that and moves into the territory of greed, that is a problem.  WG has dwelt in greed for a long time now, that needs to be dialed back, not encouraged.

To my knowledge WG has only ever given away one T8 premium for free, ARP Takao. Every other T8 premium has had some cost associated with it, so it's not like paying something for a T8 is a new thing. I'm much happier getting a solid discount on a good T8, than a free low-mid tier boat that I will never play. How many  freeT5-6 premiums do we all need sitting around collecting pixel dust because low-mid tier play isn't as rewarding, or fun? 

7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I like the structure and the multiple parallel build capability. The nature of the skills themselves will no doubt sort itself out over time. What I'm not excited about, because I don't have enough details, is the extra grind that's probably going to be required before we can have captains that generate ECXP again. In fact, that's the big sticking point of this whole damn thing, and the sooner @Hapa_Fodder can convince the devs to provide us with more detail in this matter, the better.

We all now get ECXP every day for our first battle, it's only 1K, but it's more than we were guaranteed to get prior to the mission rework. So, while it might be a longer grind to get a full point skipper, the average player now collects ECPX much more frequently. Every time WG has made collecting a resource easier, they have made the cost of items more expensive. 

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1 hour ago, Sovereigndawg said:

My biggest problem with the changes is that I have 332 ships and a captain for all of them. I reset all of them once before and it is more than time consuming.                        

I can't imagine that feeling.  I have just under a hundred ships and I think that is too large of a fleet.   I just don't know where to trim the fat out of my fleet as I have 16 tech tree T8-T10s (48 total ships) that I want to keep and then the extra tech tree ships I like and then the premiums.  

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1 hour ago, Glamorboy said:

I think it's great.  I am looking forward to it.

My one tweak: Enduring should be X% not the 350 hp/tier.  This way it could help BB's and Cruisers as equally as DD's.

I'm not a fan of the 21 points.  It just means more grinding, higher cost to retrain, and those are not the fun aspects of the game to me.  But, its added revenue which probably pays the bills for WG.

this shows exactly why Americans are failing math

do a simple math then come back and cry

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No, Sir

the current 19pts captain will become the 19/21 pts captain

effectively a 16/19 captain

19/21 = 16/19 

19/19 * 70% more effort will be the new system

19/19 =/= 20/21

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45 minutes ago, grorg said:

Worked really hard to get my 2 19pt captains.

    Yes I should have more but I love playing yorck, probably more than I should.

     I feel cheated after all that work I have to do it again.

      Also re spec for ifhe change not to long ago, don't like to do it again esp at a cost to cruisers as a whole.

     No not optimistic, this seems like a money grab.

now your precious 19pts perfect captain will be lame-duck 19/21 captain, good luck, your progress is set-back for at least 300 games!

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9 minutes ago, Illuminatius_Divinus said:

this shows exactly why Americans are failing math

do a simple math then come back and cry

LOL, okay lets do simple math.

350 hp/tier = 3,500 HP for the Gearing, 3,500/19400 * 100 = 18.04% increase in health for the Gearing.

350 hp/tier = 3,500 HP for the Montana, 3500/96,300 * 100 = 3.63% increase in health for the Montana.

Also, I'm Canadian, and 

14 minutes ago, Illuminatius_Divinus said:

do a simple math 

 

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I vote to scrape this idea. Leave the current system alone. The game already has a heck of a grind, why increase it. Why make the game more complex. I think its a bad idea.

 

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