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kgh52

CV's in ops

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It is understandable why CV players catch so much grief in chat & have some that report them just for playing a CV.

The CV, in 3 of the 5 Aegis battles I played  last night, spotted the 1st wave  before the bot Mahan. This triggers the Mahan to smoke too early, which causes the Shchors to stop & hide in the smoke. The 2nd wave will target the Shchors as it must travel further to the east side in order to trigger the Baltimore to assist.

With pugs this usually cost a minimum of 2 stars when all is said & done. Last night in the 3 Aegis where a CV did this the end result was a 2 star & # star win plus a loss.

I'm not saying it is an automatic loss. But in my experience this is a common occurrence in lost Aegis ops. Aegis is not that difficult to 5 star.

BTW, there was also a CV in the 2 5 star wins last night. The CV waited for the Mahan to spot the 1st wave in both.

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10 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

The CV, in 3 of the 5 Aegis battles I played  last night, spotted the 1st wave  before the bot Mahan.

Yeah, this is annoying.  It shows that the CVs has either never played the op in a cruiser, or he's just dense.  When I'm in a cruiser I try to ask the CV to wait and let the Mahan spot the ships.  They almost never listen.  For the most part the only CVs I see waiting are the ones in a div, they know they need to wait.

Also, I hate it when the CV player goes after the 2 western most BBs that you need to sink towards the end.  I get it, these BBs are usually closer for the CV player so he wants to go after them.  I find that the surface ships can almost always manage to sink those ships, its the more eastern BB that is the one that doesn't get sunk and you lose a star.  When the CV players focuses that eastern BB you know you've got a pretty good chance to get all 3. 

I like to play DDs in this op.  What drives my crazy is when I send 2 sets of torps at one of those BBs and they are closing in, then the CV player decides to torp or DB the BB my trops are going to hit, or I should were going to hit.  Thanks CV player, you landed 5k damage, meanwhile I was going to dev strike the BB until you made him dodge.  You wouldn't believe how often that happens. :Smile_facepalm: 

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In Aegis MOST CV players who have done it successfully will WAIT until it is INDICATED in chat that the ships have been SPOTTED.     Also most experienced CV players will focus on the FUSO ....  even though you will run into concentrated AA from the support ships... 

Most experienced CV players will also concentrate early on the escort cruisers to ensure shorter route to the anchor.

 

Remember folks we have ALOT of new CV players with the influx the german CV LINE.  

So unfortunately you will have to deal with the 'Rookie mistakes" until they learn. 

I can go into all kinds of goofiness of some Cruiser and or BB players going immediate left at the spawn to go after the 2 CVs later down the line.... 

or better yet .... those very same players will yell for CV to drop fighter support for spotting and get upset if you dont do it fast enough..

 

 

 

Edited by Noworriesderpy1
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If I see a CV player doing this I usually ask them not to do it in future ops they run while explaining why. I find a friendly "hey CV, did you know...." type of approach is usually taken as the friendly advice it's meant to be. Usually it's their first time running a CV in there and they're doing as they would in randoms by spotting the enemy ASAP. Something in Aegis I do find frustrating are when other ship types push north straight away and spot the second wave before we've knocked the first out. I tend to find we take unnecessary damage, or even lose ships, because we're not focusing fire enough.

As a general thing in ops when I play a CV is if I see a DD is lining up an attack but it's a bit ambiguous as to the ship it's attacking, I just quickly ask. Better we attack 2 separate target and hit rather than the same one and both miss.

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4 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

Yeah, this is annoying.  It shows that the CVs has either never played the op in a cruiser, or he's just dense.  When I'm in a cruiser I try to ask the CV to wait and let the Mahan spot the ships.  They almost never listen.  For the most part the only CVs I see waiting are the ones in a div, they know they need to wait.

It is counterintuitive to normal CV play (randoms, coop and OPs). You usually want the CV to go spot everything so you can shoot at it. I think this is the only OP where it becomes an issue where spotting starts a clock on certain friendly bot actions. In Raptor you want the CV to go find the enemy ships as fast as possible.  In Defeat of Newport, it is essential that the CV be out there spotting.

I too try to advise the CV NOT to spot early. Sometimes they listen (or knew all along), sometimes they don't.

Edited by Sabot_100
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Oh, I copy-paste a message in chat "CV, please do not spot the first wave early. Mahan will smoke early, Shchors will be more likely to die."

The next thing that happens is that the CV's planes fly straight ahead and spot the first wave at least a minute before the surface combatants would have done so.

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Is it possible to turn chat completely off?

I ask because there are some players who act as though their chat is inoperative. Maybe they can't be bothered with cooperation or they just got tired of being yelled at all the time for being so self-involved.

In a related note, I think about Tragedy of the Commons all the time.

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I go about it this way:

Launch aircraft, get them north to start working the Northern Fleet when it spawns.  If team cannot handle Vanguard, they are not going to get through the rest of the match.

 

Exception to this comes from two things: 1) Team Lineup vs 2) How many Ishi's in Vanguard.  I send next waves to Vanguard if certain conditions are met in regards to this.

 

Unless it was discussed by team and folks are in position, if you see a CV going for Ishi and Kongo, they are doing it wrong.  Fuso should always be priority target.  She can cause failure of the Op directly while Ishi and Kongo, most of the time, will not have a direct impact on transports.  If they sailed at full speed, different story, but they do not.

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I've been playing Operation Aegis for a couple of years (or longer).

When I play with a CV, I set waypoints to follow a curve that eventually sails the CV near F-9 and facing north, towards incoming red ships.

The first sortie of planes flies east and then turns north to spot/engage the leading ships of the red-ship-convoy. 
If I time it right, early smoke won't be triggered.  But there are other ships that trigger bot behaviors, sometimes, too.  Can't make 100% guarantees.

Later, after the convoy has been liberated and the Red Battleships show up with cruisers and destroyers in the northeast corner, I target the BB near A-8.

Enclosed is a screen-shot with crude illustrations of the routes and red BB that gets targeted.
The Yellow line is for the CV to travel, with a yellow "X" to mark a place to park.  The Orange line is an optional extra distance to travel, to take the CV closer to the action.
The neon-green path is for the planes to follow as they launch and set-up for their first strike.
The crude words of "Red BB" denote the target location A-8 for a CV to focus on (while other ships focus on defending the convoy and/or taking out the pair of red BB's that spawn near A-5).

All of this assumes that the team doesn't waste time staying on the western side of the map and doesn't get sunk too much and too often.  (Been there, done that.)

The sooner that the red ship vanguard and the red escort ships can be sunk, the better the chances a team has of completing the operation without getting the cargo ship convoy sunk by red ships that show up later in the Operation.

1028682387_AegisCVwaypointroutingandinitialaircraftsortierouting_09-10-2020_.jpg.be7b51e5204871951c592a5bf3e00b21.jpg

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Operation_Aegis

Edited by Wolfswetpaws

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Quote

Remember folks we have ALOT of new CV players with the influx the german CV LINE. 

I do not nor do I condone grieving CV players just because they are driving a CV. Yes, new players must learn

Quote

I find a friendly "hey CV, did you know...." type of approach is usually taken as the friendly advice it's meant to be

I agree, this is the best approach to give advice.

 

With the above said it is still irritating when Aegis begins with the CV spotting the 1st wave too soon. Some allow this irritation to be come anger & their emotions cause them to grieve CV players. There conduct is wrong but I do understand the cause. 

 

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3 hours ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Oh, I copy-paste a message in chat "CV, please do not spot the first wave early. Mahan will smoke early, Shchors will be more likely to die."

They just fail to notice the 'NOT" in the statement. Or think it is just normal CV grief and that they know better. Gotta get as many strikes in as possible to get your score up.

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Well CVs in general are just massively useless in Aegis. I'd report any CV player unless some spectacular performance is delivered.

CV brings two things onto the table: long range striking and scouting. In operations where key ships are scattered around the map, like Raptor rescue, or Newport defense where scouting is needed, CV can be an invaluable asset to the team. But in Aegis enemy bots are sailing towards your face so CV offers almost nothing. 

Also many bots are scripted to sail perfectly straight line in Aegis, giving plentiful broadside opportunities but CV's planes are just going to ruin all that. While a CV player manages to score few puny air torpedo hits he or she have just made the bots dancing around therefore angling towards the other 6 ships' main guns. A CV basically sacrifices much of the whole team's killing efficiency for his own minor gain in damage.

In the sense of opportunity cost CV is just a massive liability in Aegis.

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10 hours ago, Hacks_Testing_Account said:

Well CVs in general are just massively useless in Aegis. I'd report any CV player unless some spectacular performance is delivered.

CV brings two things onto the table: long range striking and scouting. In operations where key ships are scattered around the map, like Raptor rescue, or Newport defense where scouting is needed, CV can be an invaluable asset to the team. But in Aegis enemy bots are sailing towards your face so CV offers almost nothing. 

Also many bots are scripted to sail perfectly straight line in Aegis, giving plentiful broadside opportunities but CV's planes are just going to ruin all that. While a CV player manages to score few puny air torpedo hits he or she have just made the bots dancing around therefore angling towards the other 6 ships' main guns. A CV basically sacrifices much of the whole team's killing efficiency for his own minor gain in damage.

In the sense of opportunity cost CV is just a massive liability in Aegis.

Same thing can be said of DDs in practically any ops.

A lot of players just have no clue how to utilize DDs or CVs effectively in certain ops.

 

 

However for the case of Aegis, the one ship type that can be excluded of not being a necessity would be CVs since the other classes can fill in duties that more than satisfies the objective if things don't go horribly wrong.

 

I personally mainly use CVs in every op including Aegis and use the most optimal route/strategy every game to get consistent top score. Erich Loewenhardt in particular excels really well in Aegis with the abundance of cruisers for its AP rocket planes.

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I spot the wave quickly almost every time (but not too quickly as not to meta drop). 

7 people to do something as easy as aegis is overkill, and I got damage to farm.  Not waiting around.

Also when I am in Ismail I like the cv spotting early since i go north and can hit the BBs north of the first island; if the CV doesn't spot I rarely get the chance.

90% of the games are steamrolls and often akulov and smith do better than most pugs.

In the ten percent of the games akulov dies, either the convoy picks him up or it is a chore (ironically the better you do and the further he charges, the more peril you run of not getting him if people dont pay attention).  I personally don't care if he drowns as if we only lose one star on a tenth of games, then so be it, but I'll pick him up if it is half convenient or makes sense.  The more painful star to lose for me is if none see that's the north is top heavy and that they should break off towards Fuso.  This star is lost far more often in games I play than akulov drowning.

I'll make a deal, if someone guarantees they go Fuso, then I'll hold off spotting the first wave

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I don't really like CVs in Aegis, but they can be handy in pug queue because they're the only ship that can reliably bat cleanup if the surface combatants booger up killing the secondary objective battleships, which usually happens because A) they killed the convoy escorts but were out of position to deal with the battleships in time before the convoy leaves, B) they didn't coordinate in chat or adjust on the fly and all went to one side, ignoring either the A5 battleships or the A9 one, or C) somebody whiffs altogether and too many ships have died.

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