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Slammer58

KMS Karlsruhe wreckage found

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/europe/german-karlsruhe-shipwreck-norway-scli-intl/index.html

 

(and yes, I know the one in game is the SMS Karlsruhe.  KMS Karlsruhe was a sister ship to my much played Königsberg)

 

A sonar scan of the wreckage of the German warship.

Edited by Slammer58
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I saw that CBS news referred to the Karlsruhe as a "battleship".  SMH over such an easily checked fact.  

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What always saddened me was that her CO was put on trial for putting the lives of his crew first.

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On 9/8/2020 at 11:38 AM, JAKeller said:

What always saddened me was that her CO was put on trial for putting the lives of his crew first.

I agree. Maybe if they just let it sink on it's own, instead of a coup de grace from a torpedo boat with two torpedoes. Captain Ted Sherman of the USS Lexington didn't get a reprimand for losing the Lexington, and having the destroyer Phelps finish off the Lexington with 5 torpedoes. 

CO's have a tough job, and I admire the ones that put the safety of their crews first. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 2:38 PM, JAKeller said:

What always saddened me was that her CO was put on trial for putting the lives of his crew first.

From what I remember, they used a friendly torpedo to scuttle her after the British torp failed to sink her, which lead to the question "If she was still watertight, why didn't you tow her to dock?".

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16 hours ago, PrinzEugen85 said:

From what I remember, they used a friendly torpedo to scuttle her after the British torp failed to sink her, which lead to the question "If she was still watertight, why didn't you tow her to dock?".

She wasn't watertight.  All but the forward emergency pumps had failed due to power loss.  She was going to sink anyway.  (the point of contention being how long that would take)  German high command (after pressure from the government) argued that even though she was going to sink anyway, the CO should have had time to tow her back to a friendly port.  It's a perfect example of armchair admiralship with the CO paying the price for disagreement.  Far too many naval organizations (without any situational knowledge) have done this to their COs who are the ones actually in the middle of the situation.

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On 9/12/2020 at 6:10 AM, CorvetteKaptain67 said:

CO's have a tough job, and I admire the ones that put the safety of their crews first. 

I completely agree.  Far too many higher-ups seem to channel Lord Fahrquad from Shrek.  "Some of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to take."

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1 hour ago, JAKeller said:

She wasn't watertight.  All but the forward emergency pumps had failed due to power loss.  She was going to sink anyway.  (the point of contention being how long that would take)  German high command (after pressure from the government) argued that even though she was going to sink anyway, the CO should have had time to tow her back to a friendly port.  It's a perfect example of armchair admiralship with the CO paying the price for disagreement.  Far too many naval organizations (without any situational knowledge) have done this to their COs who are the ones actually in the middle of the situation.

It doesn't seem like Rieve was castigated too badly, criticized certainly but he was promoted to Konteramiral not too long afterward:

The loss of a valuable cruiser to a single torpedo close to land was disconcerting to the SKL and Rieve was criticised for not attempting to take her in tow by the torpedo boats or call assistance from Kristiansand. Other senior officers pointed to the fact that, in spite of being in submarine-infested waters, the ship had neither been fully closed-up nor at ‘action stations’. The condition of the ship had been serious after the torpedo hit, but it should not have been hopeless under the existing weather conditions. Based on the reports from Korvettenkapitän Düwel, Rieve maintained that the ship had been sinking and he did all that could have been done, considering the low level of training of the ship’s young company. Still, it took two more torpedoes before Karlsruhe went down and perhaps more energetic damage control might have saved her. Rieve was temporarily made commander of the sea defences of the Oslofjord before he was promoted in August to Konteradmiral and appointed Chief of Staff at the North Sea Naval Command in Wilhelmshaven.

- Geirr H Haarr. No Room for Mistakes: British and Allied Submarine Warfare 1939-1940. Seaforth Publishing.

 

It's pretty normal to be investigated for losing your ship, in whatever circumstances, and this doesn't seem outside the norm.

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